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RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion

 
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5/4/2013 23:26:53   
Heroes of the Scape
Member

@Deathlord: I have a fully upgraded Guard Tower and what I regard as a decent amount of guards. After being away from the game for about a week I only had like 5 of my buildings under attack and two of them had been before I stopped but I didn't care because they were just my Trade Hit and MWP.
AQ  Post #: 26
5/5/2013 0:03:02   
afterlifex
Legend-X


quote:

As to the guards, their value was decreased and if they have become useless at what they were originally meant to do then a refund would be in order.


A decrease in power and becoming "useless" are two different things. Their intent is to lower your chances of getting invaded. Their base function has not changed they still do what they are meant to do. Yes it is not as well as before but by no means have they stopped doing it. (not talking about being 100% immune, just the base function vs useless)


Note: the below is being said as a player I have no authority in any such matters.

General comment, not direct at any single person.

Individual experiences aside.
I would disagree with a (full) refund on the simple fact they have supplied their function since the day they were bought they have always given a benefit to the owner. Since day one of their purchase they have allowed for greater production of resources which would then have been turned into exp/gold/kill in some manner be it directly with the MWP or further upgrading of the estate for better performance later one( or even ease of stat training, etc..).

The previous gains do to lower invasion rate can not be removed the items have been put to use regardless of an current changes.

I will not comment on their current worth(we don't know yet) or anything of that nature about tokens(not my place), simply their previous usefulness and befits can not be ignored. It is not like they have done nothing for the player.

Again I am NOT game staff.

edit: I will likely not comment on the above again for various reasons, I am just adding a point of view.

< Message edited by afterlifex -- 5/5/2013 0:14:01 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 27
5/5/2013 0:13:34   
Pepp
Lives to Slay Dragons!


Afterlifex - as simply another player, just as yourself - I would have to say I too agree whole heartily with what your saying - the guards as they are now after this last update is far from being worthless an I feel that no refund is necessary ( I have gotten my money out of them an will continue to do so. ) Me personally even though I was only able to take advantage with this new feature with barely half my characters I am quite happy, eventually I will get all of them more guards an this new feature as well. This game is not about the ride to the finish line but just great scenery to be enjoyed on a Fantastic trip with friends.

< Message edited by Pepp -- 5/5/2013 1:25:51 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 28
5/5/2013 0:50:12   
zfloydz
Member

@Pepp: I agree. I don't feel that my 30 guards are worthless when used with a level 7 Guardian Tower. It is entertaining to have the Mighty Shadow Rocs and Nightraiders flap around.

< Message edited by zfloydz -- 5/5/2013 1:08:22 >


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AQ AQW  Post #: 29
5/5/2013 3:18:45   
xDeathlordx
Member

I was PM'ed today by someone who has full inventory of guards and no guard tower who claims to still be getting no invasions. Hence it is starting to appear clear that the capability for immunity not only was intended, but still is. The only difference is how much it's going to cost you to maintain that status.

It appears the rationale behind the guard nerf might be that since the Eatery now allows much faster resource production, there should be some kind of penalty imposed in return. The problem is that the guards were purchased in good faith that they would perform as represented at the time of the sale. And if someone doesn't want the Eatery or can't afford it or more guards to compensate, then they get penalized along with everyone else.

There has always been a strong reluctance to nerf token items. (I can only remember one time that has happened: elemental orbs). The obvious reason being that sometimes hard cash is paid for tokens. You spend your tokens on an item with a certain expectation of what you are getting in return and it's not fair to take someone’s money then change the terms of the bargain after the fact.

(Please don't bring up the old tired arguments about there being free tokens in-game. We have had that debate many times. The fact is, the consensus has always been that sometimes they are paid for and so you have to make the assumption that some were. Token items have ALWAYS been treated differently than gold items in this respect).

It's no secret that there are many more token/special offer items offered now than in the past, often the better items with the better artwork. Most of us have come to terms with that since there are usually reasonable gold alternatives. Everyone's gotta make a living, right?

But this is a little different and somewhat disturbing twist. This one says:

We're going to take away a part of the power you have already paid for and if you want it back, you'll have to pay for it again.
Just not cool in my opinion.

So really the question isn't should there be a refund. That's not really what anyone wants. What people want is simply what they paid for. The answer is to treat house guards with the same respect that other token items are treated and remove the nerf since you wouldn't even think of nerfing a token weapon or armor.

Another alternative could be that the nerf only applies if you add the Eatery to your estate. Then those who CHOOSE to make the upgrade and gain the perceived massive benefits of the eatery, also get the offset of higher invasion rates and those who choose not to can continue as they were without being penalized for doing nothing.

As always, just my opinion.
AQ  Post #: 30
5/5/2013 9:51:22   
Pepp
Lives to Slay Dragons!


well my main character has finally for the first time in over a year had to defend one of his resource buildings. the Great news it was being attacked by a level 150 half dragon *BIG GRIN* too bad we can not purchase any houses in dragonspine mountains just for those of us wanting to be attacked by these types of monsters? or wanting to only be attacked by dragon's and dragon kin - has anyone suggested a resource building that would attract certain monsters? or maybe a random battle button for sale that only attract's certain type of monsters?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 31
5/5/2013 17:58:16   
lordkrall
Member

So, if something is broken (which quite clearly was the case with guards since I am quite sure there were never meant to be actual immunity to attacks) they should not fix it because people have paid for it?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
5/5/2013 18:16:19   
MP
Member

A house in The Veil area would be... interesting.

< Message edited by MP -- 5/8/2013 17:42:45 >
AQ  Post #: 33
5/6/2013 4:26:20   
Ghengis
Member

quote:

Original: afterlifex

A decrease in power and becoming "useless" are two different things. Their intent is to lower your chances of getting invaded. Their base function has not changed they still do what they are meant to do. Yes it is not as well as before but by no means have they stopped doing it. (not talking about being 100% immune, just the base function vs useless)

Hence why I stated and if they have become useless a refund would be in order... Currently they have had their power nerfed greatly and if no matter the amount of guards you have you still get attacked as the Captain has implied via the quote bellow then the guards have in all actuality become useless... The guide to house guards state that at a certain level of guards level 10 buildings won't get attacked, and it is because of this that people have invested in that many guards. If the guards no longer have this function and regardless of how many guards you have you still have to login daily to check and clear your estate then what purpose do the guards serve other than as something for visitors to fight? In turn this update would also mean the guard tower is useless.

quote:

Original : Captain Rhubarb

Sorry for triple posting, but different topic:

I have tweaked the Invasion odds somewhat.
The overall odds have decreased of getting attacked, but the total effect of guards has been diminished very slightly.

So... players with few guards might notice less attacks.
And players with a crazy number of guards might get attacked every once in awhile now.


@lordkrall: The estate FAQ states as I quoted on post 21 of this thread... that every 5 levels of guard tower makes each building act as if they were 4 levels lower in regards to the odds of getting attacked & that buildings with a level of 0 or 1 and the Guard Tower are immune from being attacked By using simple logic if enough guards are acquired to make the buildings act as if they were level 1 or 0 then they would be immune to attack. Now all this update has done is make buying guards worthless for the purpose of stopping your house from being invaded, and making investment in house guards pointless. A more smarter way of doing this if this was done to promote z-token sales would of been to increase all the building levels to 20 to follow suit with leveling of the new building and thus require people to purchase more house guards to reach the level of protection required to guard the estate from attack. To me and many others it was the peace of mind and efficiency that house guards gave me in regards to estate invasion that made it worth it, especially considering the price point of house guards. As it currently stands if we still have to constantly check our estates every day in case of invasion then buying house guards is the equivalent of converting z-tokens to gold...


< Message edited by Ghengis -- 5/6/2013 8:25:31 >


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Post #: 34
5/6/2013 19:01:22   
Rastaban
Member
 

quote:

Currently they have had their power nerfed greatly and if no matter the amount of guards you have you still get attacked as the Captain has implied via the quote bellow then the guards have in all actuality become useless...


I haven't been attacked since the change. Guards are still useful in large numbers.
Post #: 35
5/6/2013 22:36:12   
Ghengis
Member

That's good to know... So they have just been nerfed, but not to the extent that they are useless... So my next question is... do we at least get a house item slot increase to go with the fact that we now require more guards to protect our houses and hence need more space to put these guards in. As it doesn't seem likely that the nerf to the guards is going to be undone even though they are z-token items and should technically be immune to being nerfed. The least they could do is give us more slots to put the extra guards we require, which in turn should increase guard purchases and z-token sales...
Post #: 36
5/6/2013 22:58:14   
zfloydz
Member

@Rastaban: I agree that guards are useful in large numbers. One may even have 30 guards to protect one's estate.
AQ AQW  Post #: 37
5/7/2013 16:11:46   
xDeathlordx
Member

Weird. I haven't been invaded for a couple days now and I haven't changed anything. Wondering if the Cap't changed the formula back without saying anything or if it's just luck. Anyone else notice a decrease in invasions?
AQ  Post #: 38
5/7/2013 16:42:48   
afterlifex
Legend-X


^ I can't really say since I raised my GT lvl by 1 but even the days I had invasions it was only 1 or 2 the whole day. I had a few the very first day and maybe 1 every other day if that. Thou yes I haven't seen in about 2 day IIRC.
Which would tell me the odd are still fairly low(if nothing has changed).

edit: but a few days is still a very small test sample, as you said it could be just luck.

edit: just as a note my GT will be back up to 12 in about 50 hours, after that I am going to wait and see how invasions go and then adjust guards etc..

< Message edited by afterlifex -- 5/7/2013 16:51:48 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 39
5/7/2013 19:21:03   
Rai Spellfang
True evil needs no shirt!


It's worth noting that it's all basically conjecture anyway.

Estates are probably the only real "black box" in AQ, where absolutely nothing is revealed to us in any way, shape, or form.

It's far too soon after the implementation to make any reliable guesses. We simply need a great deal of datapoints, and someone who's willing to muck through all of that. Rai calls not-it <.<
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 40
5/7/2013 19:51:45   
Smackie El Frog
Member

Without the guard tower my army of house guards still have not let through a single attacker. Same goes for my alt account and he has fewer house guards.

Hopefully, when the eatery reaches level 20 the house guards my alt owns are enough to nullify any would be attackers.

_____________________________

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 41
5/7/2013 20:07:37   
battlesiege15
Member

Oh god. I just realized that if this new housing update will be similar to the eatery, I'm in trouble. Only 3K tokens atm D:
AQ AQW  Post #: 42
5/8/2013 17:42:16   
MP
Member

^ I hope for a Castle Kingdom, then I can sell my Mansion Estate and use the excess Tokens on the "Ye Olde Eatery" and the other upcoming cool stuff.

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AQ  Post #: 43
5/8/2013 19:33:45   
LegendaryFighter
Member

The most recent newsletter still states that a housing feature will be released, hope that's not a fluke and shows that there's more to come.
AQ  Post #: 44
5/9/2013 8:12:08   
Msm
Member

quote:

Weird. I haven't been invaded for a couple days now and I haven't changed anything. Wondering if the Cap't changed the formula back without saying anything or if it's just luck. Anyone else notice a decrease in invasions?


I suspect he did, which I'm fine with.
AQ AQW  Post #: 45
5/9/2013 12:50:33   
CHAIML
Member

I've also noticed a decrease in invasions.
AQ MQ  Post #: 46
5/9/2013 13:51:12   
Ubear
Member

Mine seems to be the same, haven't really noticed a big difference. If anything the invasions could be lowered a little more

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AQ Epic  Post #: 47
5/9/2013 14:45:23   
SIGMUND
Member

So far I have seen no change to the attack/invasion rate.
Maybe this will change when my Eateries progress above level 10
AQ  Post #: 48
5/9/2013 19:16:46   
Fluffinator
Member

I have a full Daren Mansion Estate with everything capped and a tower overflowing with guards. I never saw an increase in attacks (a couple on storage buildings in last 2 weeks-nothing more than that), so I can not really tell if there was an increase or subsequent lowering of attacks.
AQ  Post #: 49
5/9/2013 22:12:13   
Zeraldo
Member

I wish I could care about these new housing releases but, after the lack of ANYTHING happening with the museum, I just use my house for the z-token interest. Still annoyed that I wasted z-tokens on the museum.
Post #: 50
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