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RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios

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12/14/2012 2:19:29   
Angels Holocaust
Member

Believe me, I would be back in a heartbeat. It's not a bad game, the luck factor has and is still a problem. Seeing as how the Devs failed to fix it these past 3 years, they might as well get rid of the win ratios. Win ratios haven't done anything these past 3 years, they're just there for the lolz in my opinion.

Edit: @ Mysterion

I have something that most players don't have and that's pride. I'm not going to pull a YOLO and do whatever I want in this game at the expense of my character.

Please do not double-post, it is considered spam and only clutters the page. Next time use the edit button to add in any additional information to your post.
For more information, please read the =AE= Comprehensive Forum Rules > Posting Behavior. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 12/14/2012 5:40:08 >
Post #: 51
12/14/2012 2:27:38   
Mysterion.
Member

Goldslayer.

So, she decided to join that faction.
She decided to become a competitive player.

I have fun, because i dont join factions.
Because i decide what i do, not others.
And she can to if she want, everyone can.

As i already said. Only one who is holding is yourself
Epic  Post #: 52
12/14/2012 2:31:13   
goldslayer1
Member

@mysterion
she made that faction.

and like i said, casual players and competitive payers are different.

doesn't mean either one should stop being casual or competitive to have fun.
AQW Epic  Post #: 53
12/14/2012 2:32:53   
Yo son
Member

ok, @goldslayer, do you honestly want me to believe that i get to see your unlucky face in the game again if win ratios are removed?
come on guys, this is a no brainier, how long have you guys been playing this game. what like 4+ years, you have to admit that the are at least something right. Compare how much you have spent on this game vs other AE games, heck any game you played in general, but yet we continued to pay and play and invest a tremendous amount of time into the game. ok how long do you think the fun is going to last for you if the ratios are removed? there is no way it is going to last 4 years, probably lest than a month, then after that follows boredom and if you have nothing to put up on the line, then this becomes just a causal game with nothing else to make up for that( other AE games have massive story lines, weekly quest, etc, in a way so you can have fun even if it is not PVP).
Post #: 54
12/14/2012 2:33:35   
Nexus...
Member

You know what? I'm tired of this. How long have you been around Mysterion? 2 Weeks? We have been here years, and have seen the many low points and digressions of this game. Don't come in here and tell us how we should play OUR GAME that WE PAYED FOR. I expect we have all been around a little bit longer than you, so while losses might be "fun" for you, as angels mentioned, the luck factor has been a presistent issue for the last couple of years which has yet to be fixed. I'm tired of losing to luck, and having to worry about my ratio every time I do. But you wouldn't know anything about that would you? Nope.


Prophet
Epic  Post #: 55
12/14/2012 2:38:37   
comicalbike
Member

you must remember the game has changed it used to be a skill game now thats gone now its a luck based game no skill needed
Epic  Post #: 56
12/14/2012 2:40:11   
Clutch
Member

Haven't seen a good topic like this on the forums in a while, here are my thoughts:

Currently, a win ratio is perceived to show that you're better than the rest of the players. I feel that this idea of being better than others is crucial to this game, it's a competitive game after all. Now at the same time, I do agree that there is a lot of pressure that the ED society puts on players to have a good win ratio. Now I feel that this idea of wanting to be better than everyone else should not be removed, but the correlation between having a good win ratio and 'being better' should be. How you might ask? Well why not implement tournaments to showcase true skill? I've been pushing for tournaments since Beta and this might be the best way to solve the problem. This way we are lowering expectations on win ratios and at the same time keeping the idea of being better than others with tournaments. You can be creative and not have to worry about win ratio's and at the same time still show your dominance over other players.

For example, a player with 50,000 wins and 35,000 losses that has won a tournament would be perceived as more dominant over someone with 50,000 wins and 1000 losses.

Overall I feel that win ratio's should stay but perhaps tournaments would help to solve the problems of wanting the game to be more 'fun'.



< Message edited by Clutch -- 12/14/2012 2:50:07 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 57
12/14/2012 2:41:08   
goldslayer1
Member

@yo son
first off, im already ingame, managing to deal thru the pain of this luck thats affecting my ratio. (dropped like .6% in the last 3 days)

yes i would be back if they were removed, and i would continue to play it and support the game.
thats if im having fun. with the new features up coming in omega this would make it so much better.

u know how many newbies i know that quit because they had losing records?
i had friends from AQW (used to play it before i came to ED) that quit because they had losing records.

u know how many players dont play to their full potential because of losses and win ratios?


@clutch
i dont think tournaments are a good idea with the current luck drastically affecting battles and class balance.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 12/14/2012 2:43:42 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 58
12/14/2012 2:46:28   
Mother1
Member

@ nexus what would your remove in the 'luck' factor to make the game more skill based since I am hearing so much about the thing that gives lower levels a fighting change against higher levels.

Post edited. Watch your language. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 12/14/2012 5:40:49 >
Epic  Post #: 59
12/14/2012 2:46:43   
Clutch
Member

Yo Son brings up a great point. This game thrives off of competitive players who will pay more to stay on top. By removing win ratio's, the Devs are potentially losing revenue from the extremely competitive. With that in mind, there's no way this can happen because no rational business would ever risk revenue. Think of it from a Dev's perspective, maybe the players having more 'fun' will feel more obligated to pay for new things and keep the revenue's flowing, but why take the risk when things are going just fine as they are? There's no way this can happen. Sorry guys.


< Message edited by Clutch -- 12/14/2012 2:52:34 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 60
12/14/2012 2:50:43   
goldslayer1
Member

@clutch
that makes no sense, they would gain more revenue from potential customers that dont quit because of bad win ratios.
all pros have super good win ratios, theres obviously many more players with bad ratios to make up for it.

im a paying customer in ED and i wouldn't stop supporting them if they made the game better (which is what this would do)
AQW Epic  Post #: 61
12/14/2012 2:51:11   
Nexus...
Member

@Mother1

I post in the balance thread all the time, have suggested tons of stuff to help fix luck etc.

...and most the time all I see from you is "I disagree because _____"

You can't have everything, and it might be helpful if in the future you were constructive with your feedback in the balance thread.

Anyway, to answer your question, you can check my previous posts in the balance thread, or PM me, because I'm not going to type it all out for you again.


Prophet
Epic  Post #: 62
12/14/2012 2:54:31   
Yo son
Member

@goldslayer, here is a question, what irritates you the most? the way you lost a match or having +1 lost added to you battle record? what am trying to say is that is still not going to matter, you are, I am still going to get mad if I get beat up by someone by something like luck or Oped build or Oped class, and that is completely independent on if i get +1 added to my lost. Please tell me, what would you play for if win/lost ratio are to be removed? what do you think should/will replace it? fun isnt enough or faction( unless there is a section in fac that shows daily wins).
Post #: 63
12/14/2012 2:56:36   
Clutch
Member

@ GoldSlayer Try to understand from a business' perspective my friend. The real revenues of ED come from the extremely competitive, the people who buy the $50 dollar packages every new promo. By doing what you're suggesting, the Dev's are potentially risking their guaranteed revenue in HOPES that the game becomes more 'fun' and that people will continue to support this game. Yeah its fine and dandy that you would continue to support this game, but why would the devs even take the risk in the first place?

< Message edited by Clutch -- 12/14/2012 2:57:32 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 64
12/14/2012 2:59:22   
comicalbike
Member

i never mind being killed in the game but i do when
its block block deflect deflect on rage and i die so that's just a luck based game now
Epic  Post #: 65
12/14/2012 3:00:00   
goldslayer1
Member

@yo
both irritate me.
and also that fact that i have to use the strongest builds i can make in order to compete (im a competitive player)
however i still want to have fun while being competitive. and right now im not really having fun if i have to buy new gear, change classes frequently, and use the most powerful builds in order to maintain ratio.

i would still play if it were removed. i stated before i have 93.2% ratio, i would give it up to have fun.

@clutch
they are already "risking" their revenue by making var weps be optional with credits.
thats a fluke logic.

why would they take the risk? isn't it every developer's job to make the game much better?
AQW Epic  Post #: 66
12/14/2012 3:01:51   
Nexus...
Member

@Clutch

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Coming out and saying "its impossible because it would decrease revenues" is somewhat irreleveant, considering rabble has already stated that this kind of thing is somewhat interesting. In fact, I would say that the chances of implementation were much closer to probable than impossible. Also, Gold has already summed up why your argument about revenue does not make any sense. The competitive aspect of the game would still remain (so people would still be purchasing packages), but people would no longer leave due to having a less than average win ratio. It would make the game much better for those who played causually, while also preserving the competitive aspect of the game, so really it would increase revenue rather than decrease it if anything.

Prophet
Epic  Post #: 67
12/14/2012 3:04:43   
Angels Holocaust
Member

Revenues and player base has been the same for the past 3 years. Wonder why it takes more money to enhance and buy weapons? Inflation is your answer. Since the player base continues to shrink, the devs are going to have to charge more to make up for their losses. It's basic economics. We lower prices and raise revenues, it's been done before. Wal-Mart is a great example of this principal.
Post #: 68
12/14/2012 3:06:54   
Clutch
Member

@ Goldslayer
Yes it is the Dev's goal to make a game better, but it is NOT the only goal. The bottom line is that the game still has to bring in revenue or else it wouldn't be here. Yes maybe if Titan were a billionaire and money wasn't an issue this game's only priority could be the player's happiness, but sadly this is not the case. And as to your point on varium and credit items, this was a briliant move by the Devs because they are capitalizing on the most important resource a person has, and that is time. The amount of credits to get a varium item is obscene, as it should be so that most will not have the time to acquire so many credits, so the loss in varium is actually minimal. And by creating the option, it brings more players into the game and increases activity, thus creating a higher potential for revenues.
AQ Epic  Post #: 69
12/14/2012 3:09:11   
goldslayer1
Member

@clutch
are u really going to argue that this would decrease revenue?
since when does making the game BETTER decrease revenue?

ED lost thousands of players because they had bad ratios and weren't having fun.
these were thousands of players that were potential customers.

so by ur logic, the current system is bad because they are losing revenue.
AQW Epic  Post #: 70
12/14/2012 3:10:33   
Clutch
Member

@Nexus
Please do explain how this would preserve the competitive nature of the game. Because the way I see it, removing win ratio's when win ratio's are the only way to see if someone's better than someone else is not the way to go.
AQ Epic  Post #: 71
12/14/2012 3:13:59   
goldslayer1
Member

@clutch
how would u view someone with 20,000+ losses?
would u see them as "skillful"

skill would be more relevant if luck weren't affecting battles so much.

i know players who cant make builds to save their life, and ask me to make a build for them, they copy builds and then have 95%+ ratios easily with 500-600+ wins

are they skillful too?
AQW Epic  Post #: 72
12/14/2012 3:15:19   
Made 4 Sunny Days
Member

My thoughts on this is that npc battles are different from pvp battles.
I myself don't enjoy npc battles, their stats dont change so once you get a build that beats them (not too hard to figure out) you can simply grind them for as many wins as you want without fear of losses. Pvp battles offer that variety, you have to be ready for anything, going into the battle with that unknown factor is what I enjoy about the game. You have to strategize in the middle of the battle based and your opponents will adapt their strategies to beat you. Thats not to say pvp is any better than npc fighting. I respect the amount of time that people have put into fighting npc's and building insanely high win ratios such as Angels Holocaust has done. That is amazing time put into her record.
I know this isn't plausible due to the manual work that would have to be put into finding each person's npc record vs. pvp record, I just think it is unfortunate that they were not seperated from the start seeing as they really are two different types of battle.

That said, no one should be attacked for their opinion as both sides have provided good arguements.

Stay Sunny
AQW Epic  Post #: 73
12/14/2012 3:15:32   
Nexus...
Member

quote:

win ratio's are the only way to see if someone's better than someone else


I think the best way to find out if someone is better than you or not is to see if you can beat them. The point is that the game mechanics, as well as the genre (PvP based MMO) make this game inherently competitive. You don't need pinned up numbers to tell you who is better, when you can fight them and find out for yourself.


Prophet

< Message edited by Nexus... -- 12/14/2012 3:17:08 >
Epic  Post #: 74
12/14/2012 3:17:03   
comicalbike
Member

goldslayer 1 I have over 20,000 losses
Epic  Post #: 75
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