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RE: to make the game more strategic.

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4/30/2013 9:09:23   
Warmaker04
Member
 

 I know HOW WE CAN do this balance forever!
Remove crits
Remove deflects .

Instead stuns and blocks. Ok maybe blocks too. Only stuns i prefer to remain.
Removing all skill armors, Hybrid, mineral, Plasma.
Buffing the normal armors

< Message edited by Warmaker04 -- 4/30/2013 9:10:53 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 26
4/30/2013 9:11:00   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

not necessarily true in some cases, i have 75 health and i still survived after getting critted 2 times, ended up winning the fight, classes that has bloodlust can deal with crits extremely well since they gain about 6-9 health with each attack.

bloodlust requires full offense. it is completely useless if u play defensibly (ie. healing, shielding)
AQW Epic  Post #: 27
4/30/2013 9:12:37   
kaiseryeux21
Member

str/supp tms looks like OP because they are all around. I guess everyone this days are smart enough to know that doesn't mean you are on the leaderboard, you are the strongest. str./supp tms can be very deadly with azrael's weapons but are very beatable. even if they hit first which is assurance tnx to rabble.
DF Epic  Post #: 28
4/30/2013 9:15:52   
comicalbike
Member

kaiseryeux21 i agree with you but the lower levels are taking a bashing at the moment
Epic  Post #: 29
4/30/2013 9:16:34   
kaiseryeux21
Member

@trizz, fear of a name only increases fear of a thing itself.

i hope the dev's consider this one block one deflection and 1 crit. Having all these luck factors in a battle already is a game changer. Lets not make it work 3-4 times. Strategy and skill will loose its value.
DF Epic  Post #: 30
4/30/2013 9:20:49   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@kaiseryeux21 tell me that they are beatable without using a yeti, and trust me, they would not even consider it.

quote:

lower levels are taking a bashing at the moment

exactly, most tend to think about the higher levels while not even taking a look at lower levels, most of the dominant builds in the lower levels, guess what? they don't rely on luck factors, they just use max plasmabolt with malfunction, max bunker buster or max artillery strike and reflex boost with multi shot, massacre builds works as well.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 4/30/2013 9:22:08 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 31
4/30/2013 9:21:21   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

rabble gave us support starts first

Funnily enough, Support always gave you that since Beta. If not Alpha. In Delta, Support was claimed to be UP and now it's lost even more (i.e. diminishing returns) and gained small boost to starting first. Otherwise it's had deflections being taken away and scaled Heal. Then the diminishing returns in Omega. Great trade-off.
AQ Epic  Post #: 32
4/30/2013 9:25:18   
Mother1
Member

@ kaiseryeux

and certain builds use different things while others don't. Strength support won't need these luck factors since they are pure offense. A crit would only help them where as other builds such as Dex builds, Casters etc actually rely on these for certain builds.

making them once per battle would only help these pure offensive builds while hurting others. So unless I was to get both defensive luck factors each time or go first my build would never be effective against these builds.

To add injury to insult once it is proven this build is a winner everyone will just jump to it like they did strength blood mage back in delta until they nerfed fireball. There would be even less builds then before unless you were using Suppor/strength or pure out support.

It wouldn't solve anything with this horrible balance. If balance was actually here then OK I wouldn't be feeling the way I am, but as it stands no we are about as balanced a 500 pound bag would be on a lift that can hold 250 pounds.
Epic  Post #: 33
4/30/2013 9:29:07   
Ranloth
Banned


 Besides, Support/Str TMs are easy to deal with. They suffer from low defences. Luck comes in handy but they are beatable without it, even if you start second. Shields come in handy, or those who don't have them (Mercs), go for Intimidate. Those with Delta or Omega weapons will find it easier as well. With Reroute, TLMs and TMs can go for high damage skills to kill these Str/Supp TMs, and BHs and BMs can take advantage of BL (more damage dealt = more HP regained).

This is for ones with Azrael Weapons as well. Azrael's Will is their resort, but with low Dex, it tends to fail a lot. I'm speaking as Focus 4 BM here with Bionical Hazard (which is useless but the blockable attack on the TMs).
AQ Epic  Post #: 34
4/30/2013 10:47:49   
comicalbike
Member

Mother1 i would have thought that the testers had spotted it but cant have as nothing has been done
Epic  Post #: 35
4/30/2013 16:59:10   
spinutto
Member

Actually Trans, in my opinion they are not easy to deal with, as they will always get 1st turn.
As a TLM i only beat these guys if i Deflect their aux, aside from that is a guranteed loss.
1st turn Malf(even if i block is there to take 50-55 tech from me), my only counter would be a aux or blood shield,
2nd turn they use Azrael's core for 30-35 dmg(without azrael= 40-45 dmg) im forced to either attack or heal
3rd turn Aux 19-23+39 dmg for 45-48 non crit my only hope here s using my own azreal and expect a block if not im preety much dead
4th turn (if im not dead already) plasma meteor, if i survive then i can easily take them out with a double strike or surgical.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 36
4/30/2013 17:11:12   
edwardvulture
Member

That would do it
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 37
4/30/2013 20:18:41   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Part of playing strategically is to use luck factors to your own benefit when you have no other option or means of survival. While I'm not supporting the high amount of luck factors and their strong impact currently in ED, it definitely isn't something that's stopping strategic play. It's just annoying and unpredictable. If someone were truly playing strategically, they would gamble their win on the smallest chance of the opponent blocking/deflecting/critting. In most cases, this is less than 5%, or at least less than 8%-ish, which is about as high of a chance that luck factors had in previous stages.

< Message edited by Exploding Penguin -- 4/30/2013 20:19:41 >
Epic  Post #: 38
4/30/2013 20:42:31   
Xendran
Member

The problem is battle length. Most battles are 3 to 5 turns now, so

1 lucky block = losing 17% - 28% of the battle.
Longer battles = each individual luck event has less overall value. This is why the luck issue is not as severe in long 2v2 battles.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 39
4/30/2013 21:39:38   
King FrostLich
Member

Meh. Have one luck factor in one battle at a time means I can spam my Gamma Bot like there's no tomorrow.
Epic  Post #: 40
4/30/2013 22:45:09   
chusen
Member

topic supported
and also change shadow arts if this were to be implemented since if you get a block you cant block again XD
Post #: 41
4/30/2013 22:56:34   
kaiseryeux21
Member

lets face it, blocks crits and deflections are very overwhelming. It may happen at any given moment, at any player regardless of tech and dex. Even when you got rage which you are expecting a good amount of damage to finish your opponent then booom, blocked or deflected. Now can someone tell me if it is funny?? i dont think so. Luck is one factor of the game which anybody can't control and can you imagine how many battles have already been ruined due to the severeness of this factor?? can't count it myself alone. How about on others?? It happened to me in 2 vs 2 facing an opponent (i won't mention the name) with 24-29 dex and 23-28 tech. I got rage bot and he blocked. his partner attack my partner but could not killed him. next turn my partner rage IA special but he also got deflected. Out of frustration, my partner leaves the game only saying this line "Player with less dex and less tech than the two of us who gets block and deflection in a row". How frustrating.

Again, my point is not to completely eliminate luck factors as i believe its an important part of the game. Only make luck factors some restrictions. the latest patch notes regarding blocks is good but not quite enough. It still doesn't prevent anyone from blocking you. It only gives you a sure damage of 3-5.
DF Epic  Post #: 42
4/30/2013 23:33:08   
toopygoo
Member

ill be honest, defence builds are totally torn to shreds still. i have a very defensive build, and i get critted really frequently, in two turns i am down to 17 health. no big deal, whip out a heal, carry on. except in 2 turns, somehow Players with 17 support have gained maximum rage
You also need to decrease rage gain for lower levels (around level 21-24).
Also i am having a problem with 1v1. my support is 46, and even though i am facing people higher levels and and equal support, i only start 1/5 battles. its been like this for three days, so its its a serious bad streak... and really throwing my game off. in addition, 85% of the 1v1 battles are against level 35's, so adding a huge disadvantage. in my opinion, for 1v1, 1-2 level difference is plenty, you need only 2 people, so games should still be relatively fast.
AQW Epic  Post #: 43
4/30/2013 23:47:05   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

i have a very defensive build

This is the cause of your problems. Rage was made to deal with tanks, so the more defence you have, the faster the rage gain will be. There's nothing wrong with this, really. Decreasing rage gain makes no sense since it's giving a boost to tanks without being justified in any way, just works as it should.
AQ Epic  Post #: 44
5/1/2013 0:01:50   
toopygoo
Member

did you read the part about raging in two turns? that's without taking damage, because i am too busy debuffing etc.
this build worked very well until last Friday, the release of the arborgeddon.
if you check my jugg win/loss, i lost about the last 40 and only won 29...
i didnt event mention the fact that someone with half the dex i have blocks, or with hafl the tech delfects. this is on a regular basis: once per game. on the wiki, by battle calculations the odds of this should be 1 in 50... im getting 1 in 2
AQW Epic  Post #: 45
5/1/2013 0:29:06   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Blocks/Deflects/Crits are probably occurring because of cores and because of the absurd 10% base deflection chance.

Jugg is actually way too hard at this point because the lowered HP makes it extremely easy to get an unstoppable death when 2 opponents rage with their strongest skills, particularly when they rage with plasma bolt or crit with bunker.
Epic  Post #: 46
5/1/2013 2:24:42   
kaiseryeux21
Member

back in delta, luck is already occuring but the effect is not really that game changing because of higher hp and the aid of boosters which will have you survived a very bad luck even you critted twice and your attacks are blocked twice also. Now that we are in omega, the effect of luck is greatly felt. Another thing that i really cannot understand is why there are so many luck based cores being introduced?? Luck factors already occur even without these cores and adding more will surely ruin every battle specially close battles. Too much of something is not good.
DF Epic  Post #: 47
5/1/2013 3:40:23   
Goony
Constructive!


 Rabblefroth is going to make a change this week that I think will help and it's to do with focus. This should bring robot damage back in line with other damages and lengthen battles a little bit.

As far as the sup/str builds go I haven't made any suggestions about it, but if I was to make any comment about them it would be along the lines of moving malfunction scaling from support to dexterity. The thing about these builds is that they are glass cannons and if the battle can be extended they fall on their sword!

@Trans, I think rage could be tweaked a bit as it can also be abused by offensive quick kill builds, the mechanism was originally built to cope with tanks. Maybe if rage could be a little harder to get, was 1 use only and you use it when you want to would make it more strategic!

< Message edited by Goony -- 5/1/2013 3:44:25 >
Epic  Post #: 48
5/1/2013 3:43:18   
Thesoulweaver
Member

^

Hooray! Focus is being nerfed. Some people will be very happy.

Yeah, Rage could use some tweaking.
MQ AQW  Post #: 49
5/1/2013 4:19:01   
spinutto
Member

@Goony
I've said this in another thread. The problem of these str/supp builds is that malfunction/smoke haven't been updated to meet Omega standards.
They take too much tech/dex than they are supposed to. The same is true for plasma bolt, it should scale like Fireball as not to abuse dmg, I mean wasn't that what happened to BMs back in Delta?
They really need to update all skills to match the new stat system.It's something that should not be ignored.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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