RE: =OS= Oversoul Questions & Answers X (Read the first post)


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7/9/2013 18:17:33

necro rouge
Member

@TFP
Not to be rude, but none of your arguments make a lick of sense.

Just because one specific strategy and set of cards can on short term beat other cards, does not make anything unbalanced. All of these elements have different strengths/weaknesses.

Neutral has two very strong cards, one of which counters other DOT users. It also has neutralize, but the rest of the deck is very cost inefficient to make up for it.

Shadow has arguably the best offense in the game with cards like MoD, poison, sacrifice and empower, but lacks defense to make up for it.

Ice is probably the strongest overall of them, with a stun, very good defense and a 2x DoT, however, it has a very small selection of good cards, and only 3(?) with unique effects, also, the DoT is more predictable and is less effective against iron hide than other DoTs. Your freeze argument is also pretty groundless, as you will have to go through 3-5 hands every time you want to use it in a combo, this will take on average 8 turns to do, something which generates 40 energy. So unless you plan on overcharging by 20 energy, you can not use the freeze/shatter combo every time you launch an attack

The bottom line is that even though the elements have differences, they are in the end pretty balanced.

AQW	Post #: 676

7/9/2013 18:24:42

The Finnish Phoenix
Member

When an optimized character of a certain element does not have a fighting chance against an optimized character of another element, that's unbalanced.

Post #: 677

7/9/2013 18:26:11

BJEBLE
Member

@TFP you said at the end of your post that A>B>C>A isn't balance, when the Elemental Resistance says other wise, Fire has +3 over Ice and all that, so Nulgath himself disagrees about what is balance and what isn't.

DF	Post #: 678

7/9/2013 18:28:15

The Finnish Phoenix
Member

Enjoy Nulgath's balance then. Peace!

Post #: 679

7/9/2013 18:30:50

necro rouge
Member

@TFP
What makes you think that the only way to play shadow is by using DoT? The best way for a shadow character to beat a neutral iron hide spammer is by spamming void reflection. Iron hide does not block reflection damage, so all energy spent on iron hides will be wasted, making it a 0x efficiency card.

Also, you should watch this video

And have you ever played pokemon? They use the same system there. Is water the strongest thing ever because it beats fire? Is grass the strongest thing ever because water can not defeat it?

< Message edited by necro rouge -- 7/9/2013 18:33:59 >

AQW	Post #: 680

7/9/2013 18:34:55

The Finnish Phoenix
Member

Weighing in at 13 energy, Void Reflection is not easily spammed. On top of that, Iron Hide spammers still have room for a Corruption or two in addition to Catlike Reflexes to render Void Reflection silly. Void Reflection is another one of those cards that could use some re-wiring.

Post #: 681

7/9/2013 18:44:38

Mondez
Member

@TFP
I apologize, but you arguments against IH are not very sound arguments because I've played good Neutral players with about almost every element especially when Neutral CC came out. Corruption overrites Poison, but the cost is harrowing and pretty much a sacrificial energy choice hence why I don't put it in my deck.

Comparing the two I can spam Poison and MoD faster than Corruption plus the spamming can override IH in one turn if used right. My Abberant the Exiled is a good example. I faced against a player using Orc Chieftan who used Corruption and had IH, problem was that I had MoD on him plus two Poisons and the player used up a ton of his energy. I won the match of course because the player's deck was too costly. Elemental Resistance will override your entire argument you have up to this point because truthfully everything is balanced.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 682

7/9/2013 18:54:15

The Finnish Phoenix
Member

About the whole "Elemental Resistance will be a thing so everything you say is wrong" argument I keep having thrown at me, OS's programmers are humans too and are capable of mistakes. My contradicting them does not make me auto-wrong. They're also capable of listening to reason and can fix cards that have proven to be a problem, a good example being the recent update to Refresh, which was TERRIBLE before.

Other cards that are terrible include Blessed Strike and Pierce.

< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 7/9/2013 18:58:40 >

Post #: 683

7/9/2013 18:58:45

Mondez
Member

@TFP
Well it's your opinion that you see certain cards unbalanced, but given the situation that this whole entire game is still in testing phase. Reason why we keep throwing ER at you is because it is a main key feature to battles plus Artifacts and Stats. Right now everything is being balanced and tested. You are the first forumite I've seen bring IH up, but the problem is that majority of the players believe IH is balanced. I did not see any complaints regarding to the current cards except for Incinerate.

< Message edited by Mondez -- 7/9/2013 18:59:14 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 684

7/9/2013 19:03:21

The Finnish Phoenix
Member

Incinerate is pretty nuts.

But yeah I think elemental resistance is a terrible idea personally and hope it never happens. Wouldn't you mind being crushed in a tournament because you were unlucky enough to have an "elemental mismatch"? I know I'd be pretty salty.

Post #: 685

7/9/2013 19:11:08

Mondez
Member

@TFP
That my friend is where swapping characters in battle system comes in because if you watched the video Artix vs. Nulgath plus it is one of the planned features for OS.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 686

7/9/2013 20:04:00

TheSage
Member

@TFP : You are complaining about Iron Hide blocking all your damage and about Void Reflection not being spammed?
1) Iron Hide lasts 2 turns and goes away till it is played again, Void Reflection lasts till you get hit and the damage is reflected
2) Reflected damage GOES THROUGH IRON HIDE
3) Iron Hide costs 5 mana, Corruption 10, where are you getting the ability to use 2 corruptions AND spam Iron Hides? The math does not add up here.
4) Refresh has been broken since the battle script was overhauled and there was just not enough time to get around to looking at it to make it work properly so it was left for the Water CC to get it working properly.
5) There are other things that are getting worked on and balanced/fixed out as each element is gone through for the CC Pack releases.
6) What problems do you have with Piercing cards like Blessed Strike?

_____________________________

AQW

Epic

Post #: 687

7/9/2013 20:42:48

The Finnish Phoenix
Member

quote:

@TFP
That my friend is where swapping characters in battle system comes in because if you watched the video Artix vs. Nulgath plus it is one of the planned features for OS.

That's a fair point, I just hope that they don't implement ER too long before swapping.

quote:

@TFP : You are complaining about Iron Hide blocking all your damage and about Void Reflection not being spammed?

My problem with Iron Hide involves the universal implications of how effective or ineffective it can be against different opponents, not because I personally am mad that it's blocking all my damage, but because it can be circumverted by certain characters while shutting down others completely. Namely, it's too good against Shadow and not good against Ice. My qualm about Void Reflection is more to do with how people just tank and DoT to avoid it anyway and that 13 energy is a lot to waste. Also, why would Void Reflection not be able to counter DoTs when Iron Hide can absorb them?

quote:

2) Reflected damage GOES THROUGH IRON HIDE

ARE THE BOLD CAPS REALLY NECESSARY? And yeah, I know. However, if no damage gets reflected anyway then it's just wasted energy, and lots of it. Especially if you're going to spam it.

quote:

3) Iron Hide costs 5 mana, Corruption 10, where are you getting the ability to use 2 corruptions AND spam Iron Hides? The math does not add up here.

Well let's see about that, you're going to charge up to your initial 19, then you get 5 energy per turn, and that's on top of Neutralize. Iron Hide is used every other turn. What seems to be the problem?

quote:

4) Refresh has been broken since the battle script was overhauled and there was just not enough time to get around to looking at it to make it work properly so it was left for the Water CC to get it working properly.
5) There are other things that are getting worked on and balanced/fixed out as each element is gone through for the CC Pack releases.

That's good to know, thank you. If there're any specifics you might divulge that would be awesome.

quote:

6) What problems do you have with Piercing cards like Blessed Strike?

Shields are really energy efficient and piercing cards really aren't, so by using them at any point but the end of the battle one puts themselves at a disadvantage from which it's very difficult to come back. 100 Pierce in particular is annoying because it's so uneffective and comes in multiple copies in high rank decks like Sentry Lord's, which renders a character which otherwise might have had potential useless.

< Message edited by The Finnish Phoenix -- 7/9/2013 21:06:51 >

Post #: 688

7/9/2013 21:08:09

Mondez
Member

@TFP
Problem is that you can't be sure on drawing IH on every turn. Example: During my duel with Scherzo, I added two extra IH's to my Orc Chieftan's deck, but I didn't draw IH every turn plus spamming IH is wasting energy to deal damage.

Actually stats increases damage when the feature is released so once stats is released pierce cards will be very useful.

< Message edited by Mondez -- 7/9/2013 21:09:46 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 689

7/9/2013 21:13:09

The Finnish Phoenix
Member

Yeah, but if you're discarding everything you don't need and redrawing with 4 Iron Hides in your deck then you should be able to get one in time to block some stuff. He went first right?

Post #: 690

7/9/2013 21:18:31

Skurge
The Dealer

@The Finnish Phoenix:

No.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 691

7/9/2013 21:22:10

TheSage
Member

quote:

My qualm about Void Reflection is more to do with how people just tank and DoT to avoid it anyway and that 13 energy is a lot to waste. Also, why would Void Reflection not be able to counter DoTs when Iron Hide can absorb them?

Because they are 2 different skills, 1 absorbs damage, the other reflects attacks. If you are up against someone that uses the tank + DoT tactic then just discard Void Reflection and use the mana on shields instead, i don't see what the big deal is here.

quote:

Well let's see about that, you're going to charge up to your initial 19, then you get 5 energy per turn, and that's on top of Neutralize. Iron Hide is used every other turn. What seems to be the problem?

Well in order to be using Iron Hide every other turn would mean you get at least one in your hand every time you draw, and since the max is 7 you can get in a deck of 20 cards about 2/3 of the time you might not even have the card in your hand. For 14 turns total, you can have iron hide active, out of the turns that you played the card you spent 35 mana and another 35 left over to use for other cards. Neutralize maxes out at 1 per deck, meaning you have to go through 20 cards just to cycle through to get it again (if you fully CCed Iron Hide).

quote:

Shields are really energy efficient and piercing cards really aren't, so by using them at any point but the end of the battle one puts themselves at a disadvantage from which it's very difficult to come back. 100 Pierce in particular is annoying because it's so uneffective and comes in multiple copies in high rank decks like Sentry Lord's, which renders a character which otherwise might have had potential useless.

It is easier to defend then it is to attack, to break through someones defense it requires a little more effort. Try fighting against someone that spams shields and counter attacks and you would wish for a piercing type card.

Edit:

quote:

Yeah, but if you're discarding everything you don't need and redrawing with 4 Iron Hides in your deck then you should be able to get one in time to block some stuff.

If you are doing nothing but trying to spam Iron Hide you will lose because you are not even dealing any damage and meanwhile the other person is just attacking you breaking your iron hides and killing you slowly. lol

< Message edited by TheSage -- 7/9/2013 21:27:46 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 692

7/9/2013 21:42:23

BJEBLE
Member

@TFP Also, because there are so many attack cards, shields have to make up for it by being more efficient.And if there is any amount of shields up, but your opponent only has 100 health, be glad for the piercing.

DF	Post #: 693

7/10/2013 12:34:13

cathlic1
Member

hey what is the most offensive water character besides the alpha pirate?
thanks

DF	Post #: 694

7/10/2013 13:09:17

Redingard
Member

@cathlic

Water elemental is a nice, easy to get free character.

AQW

Post #: 695

7/10/2013 13:19:21

necro rouge
Member

@cathlic
water element is strong and very easy to get, however, I would recommend you to work on a Quaztk lord. Even the normal quaztk is better than water elemental once you get used to him. Katana zon/Alexis is also pretty much a reskin of Quaztk, just without evolve options and a gold version.

AQW	Post #: 696

7/10/2013 13:29:04

The Finnish Phoenix
Member

quote:

Because they are 2 different skills, 1 absorbs damage, the other reflects attacks. If you are up against someone that uses the tank + DoT tactic then just discard Void Reflection and use the mana on shields instead, i don't see what the big deal is here.

It just seems like Iron Hide gives a lot more for its cost than Void Reflection.

quote:

It is easier to defend then it is to attack, to break through someones defense it requires a little more effort. Try fighting against someone that spams shields and counter attacks and you would wish for a piercing type card.

I'll remind you that I've played my share of OverSoul and that there's not much I haven't tried fighting, my opinion about "piercing type cards" remains unchanged.

quote:

Well in order to be using Iron Hide every other turn would mean you get at least one in your hand every time you draw, and since the max is 7 you can get in a deck of 20 cards about 2/3 of the time you might not even have the card in your hand. For 14 turns total, you can have iron hide active, out of the turns that you played the card you spent 35 mana and another 35 left over to use for other cards. Neutralize maxes out at 1 per deck, meaning you have to go through 20 cards just to cycle through to get it again (if you fully CCed Iron Hide).

Here bold caps are absolutely necessary. A HAND CONTAINS FIVE CARDS, NOT ONE.

quote:

If you are doing nothing but trying to spam Iron Hide you will lose because you are not even dealing any damage and meanwhile the other person is just attacking you breaking your iron hides and killing you slowly. lol

I don't know why you think spamming Iron Hide leaves you with no energy left for offence, but it's not the case.

quote:

@TFP Also, because there are so many attack cards, shields have to make up for it by being more efficient.And if there is any amount of shields up, but your opponent only has 100 health, be glad for the piercing.

When Pierce cards are either dead or too costly at any time other than when your opponent has 100 health, having too many of them likely means that you're not going to be able to reduce qualified opponents' health to 100 in the first place.

quote:

@The Finnish Phoenix:

No.

Interesting. However, with as little as I know about how your battle with Mondez went down, I'd rather duel your Abberant with one of my Neutral characters personally before drawing any conclusions, preferably twice so that we could each go first once.

Post #: 697

7/10/2013 13:40:54

Redingard
Member

@TFP

Void Reflection absorbs 1000 damage-6 energy

It then deals 1000 damage-8 energy

It's cost efficient. Iron Hide isn't, if not used properly.

AQW

Post #: 698

7/10/2013 13:46:13

The Finnish Phoenix
Member

Void Reflection isn't if not used properly, and in many cases there's no way to use it properly. Remember, Stonewall and Ice Wall block DoTs, Void Reflection doesn't.

Post #: 699

7/10/2013 13:48:10

Redingard
Member

Then don't use it against Shadow characters. You should be able to put up shields when your opponent can't spam Poison.

AQW

Post #: 700

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