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RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread

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6/14/2015 3:51:01   
Skullkyopi
Member

There's been a problem with Dragonlord and using Ultimate Dragon Scythe of Elements.
Something's preventing me from clicking on the darkness orb during battle.
I think it's the shield stopping me from clicking it.
Can this be fixed?
DF MQ  Post #: 126
6/14/2015 23:08:37   
Lightwind
Member

The new DL class is great. It feels really good to have a class that is actually as defensive as it looks. I mean, all that armor should be used for something, am I right?

Although I'm not a big fan of the new cooldowns, they make sense to me. Things have to be balanced, after all, and never (or almost never) being hit comes with a price. I do think that dragonheart's cooldown should be reduced to 10, but that's just me missing my old 400% damage every 5 turns. The only real gripe I have is with the damage reduction skill. It seems to work by healing back some of the damage dealt, leaving you with less damage taken overall. This is more useful, it would seem, on monsters with high damage outputs. However, on monsters with extremely high damage, such as the splashy or the bassault, when they attack you can very easily reach 0 health in only a few hits, which triggers the 'defeat' message before the skill has a chance to heal it back.

Is there any way to resolve this? The damage reduction skill replaces the 50% resist skill, which was most useful against monsters with high damage outputs. And, I often could use another defensive skill in it's place if it didn't work. But now that all the cooldowns have been increased by 100% or more, this problem often leaves me with no means of defence against monsters that can literally tear my health in half with only one move.

Of course, I can still use the new freeze, or the new light skill, but because of the nerf to DL's offensive capacity, it takes me longer to actually kill these monsters, and I end up needing the damage reduction skill more. I really hate having such an awesome skill fail me because of such a technical reason.

Anyway, that was my only gripe. Other than that, (and there are only like 3 monsters in the game that hit hard enough to even be worried about) the new class is awesome. I LOVE the new ice skill, and I always felt that DL needed a blind. It is really awesome to have a staff that actually listens and responds to the playerbase's sometimes unreasonable demands. I am very grateful.
DF  Post #: 127
6/15/2015 1:13:37   
Mystical Warrior
Helpful!


 @Lightwind Taking longer to kill things SHOULD happen given that the class is Defensive in nature, it'll be more weird if you could still kill as fast as before but be harder to kill than before.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 128
6/15/2015 3:05:37   
Lightwind
Member

The point wasn't that it took longer, rather that I ended up NEEDING that damage reduction skill to work because of longer rotations. Which it does, normally, except on monsters that do really high damage because there is a little gap between you taking the damage and the skill healing it back, and the game is set up so that once you get 0 health, it's battle over, back to end of quest.

example. You are fighting sneevil, which does 100 dmg. Earth dragon spirit has been activated two turns, so it reduces 50% of the damage. You have 80 health left.
Sneevil attacks. It does 100 damage, but before EDS can weaken it down to fifty, you're already dead. Boom. End of battle.

I suppose it shouldn't really be a last ditch skill. With more practice I'll get used to it, but EDS can't really replace elemental align in that regard.
DF  Post #: 129
6/15/2015 7:42:21   
Azan
Member

I ran around qith the class and I can say it's awesome. Four defensive options just means an endless loop of "Hah! I'm unkillable!" and, joined with the instant mana regen and the instant heal and HoT... I don't think you can die. (unless, of course, against particular bosses)

I haven't yet tested that, but I wonder if DL could be a good Beastmaster class with 200 CHA. Its defensive abilities would probably allow it to tank its way through battles while having offensive guests kill the things you're fighting.

Great revamp. This now truly feels like the class it's supposed to be.

(and the Neverglades just got trolled.)
Post #: 130
6/15/2015 8:37:50   
Ash
Member
quote:

Is there any way to resolve this?

The short answer is, not immediately because I have to re-write parts of the battle engine to make it work like you want.

The long answer is, it's how the battle engine is handling the hits. The game works like the following.

A. You press the skill button you want or the monster attacks. The class/monster file takes all the information on what skill you picked like total boost, type, element, etc, and sends that to the battle engine.
B. The battle engine processes each hit, calculates everything, and pushes the information back. If you were hit and your HP touches 0 for ANY reason, do not pass go, go directly to dead.
C. The game then plays the resulting calculations and the hit/miss/dead frames as necessary.

The issue is it's better to not use straight All resist on Defensive classes in most cases as it messes with healing and causes crossovers with any All already on your character, but that also means I have to cause the recovery of damage taken AFTER the hits are calculated and the game already has decided you're dead. I can write a patch into the battle engine for certain classes but that'll take time and I'll have to make sure it'll properly check that and not just ignore it because you're supposed to be dead. Like you said it's only happening on certain bosses so it's not exactly common but it is something I'll try and get a workaround done for.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 131
6/15/2015 17:07:07   
Solanaceae
Legendary Nightshade


 Could you do something like add All: 50 and then Heal: -50?
DF  Post #: 132
6/15/2015 17:17:49   
David the Wanderer
Legendary AK!


 @Epic Durian: Why would you want that? As it stands now, Earth Dragon Spirit prevents more damage than a +50 All buff could.
DF AQW  Post #: 133
6/15/2015 17:43:08   
Ash
Member
quote:

Could you do something like add All: 50 and then Heal: -50?

That runs into the point I mentioned where having a straight All also runs into people stacking All defense from items. It's multiple layers of issues, not just the Health one. (It would also need -Mana to make sure your Mana Potions and regen skill worked at full strength) The easiest option would have been just to tack on the -Health of the same amount, yes, but that doesn't fix the more defense than accounted for issue.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 134
6/16/2015 0:50:59   
Mr G W
Member

quote:

@Epic Durian: Why would you want that? As it stands now, Earth Dragon Spirit prevents more damage than a +50 All buff could.


Well to be fair, the old skill could put many resistances above 100, making you heal instead of taking damage. Situationally, the old skill was better, although overall the new one prevents more damage

The new skill doesn't do that (which is was the point of the change)

< Message edited by Mr G W -- 6/16/2015 0:51:38 >
AQ DF  Post #: 135
6/16/2015 1:12:11   
Aura Knight
Banned


 While I do miss the +50 resist skill , the new damage reduction one is not bad at all. I'm still not sure by how much the damage is reduced but it does help. The blind and bonus reduction from the light and frost skills are great as well. The class has enough defense that the shield skill is barely needed to be used. What it lacks in power, it more than makes up for in defense and I'm actually surprised I like the class since I usually prefer classes that are mostly offensive and can win battles quickly. But I guess sometimes the best offense is a good defense.

The class does exceptionally well in those really long quests. I managed to go through Blackwyn Tomb ( I think that's the name) even though I started with less than 1/4 of my hp and about 1/5 of my mana. During the duration of the quest, dragonlord's hp and mana recovery nearly put me back in full health. All while taking minimal damage due to the amazing defensive capabilities of the class. I'll still prefer the more offensive classes but dragonlord has earned some respect.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 136
6/16/2015 13:04:08   
Lightwind
Member

Dragonlord has always been my favourite class, even before the first revamp when they added that freakin' awesome shield. As a player that has a lot of time, I don't mind that it takes longer to kill enemies, and I really like not having to switch classes to take down a boss. Now it's better than ever before thanks to Ashendal, I really feel elite.

I mean who wouldn't, when Akrolith unleashes his OMGBBQ blast and you literally take 0 damage. I can imagine my guests going O_O at me. Plus, you are referred to as 'Dragonlord': that's a cool title right there.

A little off-track, but does anyone know if the +crit chance on dragon soul was removed? I can't tell by using it, and it doesn't say in the description anymore.
DF  Post #: 137
6/16/2015 14:55:34   
Aura Knight
Banned


 I think the +20 crit had been removed, which is too bad really. That skill made farming at Voltabolt rather amazing when at low health with dragonlord. I doubt it will be put back. Or maybe it wasn't removed at all. But after using the class a few times in the Challenge quest, it seems it took twice as long to beat the mega driller and/or the mega soda monster than it used to.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 138
6/16/2015 14:57:55   
flashbang
Member

quote:

Soul: Requires below 20% hp instead of 30% for 245% Damage.


From page 4.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 139
6/16/2015 15:03:33   
Ash
Member


 That's kind of the point though. If you're looking to just farm for Exp then using DL isn't the right choice. An Offensive class like one of the Atlean's would be much more effective at doing that. A class like DL is meant for long term sustain, not instant bursty damage. Now that almost all the classes are at current standards you can pick and choose which to use for various things and DL shouldn't really be picked for quick farming sessions unless you're trying to farm a really annoying boss.

The base damage of Soul was increased to make up for the lower HP req and loss of the small bit of extra crit. 7 hits though, with a decent set of gear, will proc multiple crits even with the +20 gone.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 140
6/16/2015 15:13:43   
Aura Knight
Banned


 It might not be the right choice but it sure was the fun choice before the change. But I suppose all good things come to an end. No matter, there's plenty of classes in game that can beat things rather quickly. Making dragonlord a tank isn't bad at all. It sure does help for those extra long quests where a healing area isn't always so easily found.
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 141
6/16/2015 15:46:03   
Dracojan
Member

i think its too hard to get that low, even if you are not defending much. if a monster can get you down to 20%, then staying at that low hp would be deadly. but the skill by design is like this and its intended to be used rarely so im totally ok with it. i never noticed that the crit bonus was removed but i couldnt care less about it. it does quite a lot of dmg as of now.

< Message edited by Dracojan -- 6/16/2015 15:47:16 >
DF  Post #: 142
6/16/2015 15:55:50   
Shadows Morgenstern
Member

I'm pretty sure it's meant to be a Desperation Attack completely. Not a full strategy at staying there. Though it is possible.
DF  Post #: 143
6/16/2015 16:12:20   
Lightwind
Member

People looking for a little extra dmg can now use the multi skill as well. At 150% it now does more than Bite, for the same cooldown, so I'd go LDS>Multi>bite>rush>DDS>multi>Dragoneye>FDS...

And so on. I like how we have to work out how to juice this new class, it has tons of potential.
DF  Post #: 144
6/16/2015 17:02:38   
Mr G W
Member

also its cooldown is only 1 now instead of 5 so you can spam it every other turn for some of the best damage per turn in the entire game
AQ DF  Post #: 145
6/16/2015 17:15:27   
Lightwind
Member

Shhhhh dude! Ash hates hearing stuff like that!

(Seriously we love you Ash but you are a little debuff crazy sometimes. Need I mention the "wisdom incident"?)

(Please don't debuff multi!)

I'm kidding. We all look up to and adore your balancing skills.

< Message edited by Lightwind -- 6/16/2015 17:26:29 >
DF  Post #: 146
6/16/2015 17:17:07   
Ash
Member


 Why would I nerf something when I just put it into place after doing the math to make sure it was right?

The multi gets Ele Lock compensation. Soul gets compensation for being locked and only usable below a health percentage.

I only nerf stuff that is way out of line, not stuff that's getting the right bonuses for what they're doing.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 147
6/16/2015 17:19:21   
Shadows Morgenstern
Member

@Ash: I think most peoples image of you is your NPC in Rambo gear holding dual Nerf shotguns firing at anything remotely powerful.

_____________________________

Your signature has been removed because Photobucket replaced it
with a third-party hosting notice that was too large for the forums.
DF  Post #: 148
6/16/2015 18:29:29   
Sakurai the Cursed
Member

@Mr G W - If you're referring to DragonSoul, it always had a CD of 1.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 149
6/16/2015 18:32:49   
Mr G W
Member

mmm, then the encyclopedia was wrong even before the revamp as it states 5 cooldown there
AQ DF  Post #: 150
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