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RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread

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10/2/2014 4:09:15   
DarkLore
Member

Kyle proves a point I was thinking of myself. Although little to no monsters have resistance to evil, its generally a rule of thumb for elemental locked skills to be stronger than a skill that adapts to current weapon elements.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 326
10/2/2014 4:12:15   
walker of the rift
Member

It's multi is locked with evil which no creature has a strength or weakness to, I don't see the problem. If it was locked to darkness were 60% of characters have resistance to the yeah I would be annoyed but evil is more reliable, I prefer it like this.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 327
10/2/2014 4:31:29   
DarkLore
Member

I personally have no issue with evil element. Its just even for a multi its a tad weak. Typically elemental locked skills are stronger as a compensation. This can happen if the element in question is either
used amongst monsters or just too standard of an element. In a sense that virtually no monsters are weak to it.

< Message edited by DarkLore -- 10/2/2014 4:32:03 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 328
10/2/2014 4:39:26   
Zeldax
Member
 

 It makes sense that no monster is weak to Evil. It isn't one of the 8 standard elements (Though there are some monsters weak to Bacon and other joke elements like Fish or something). Personally, I have no problems with DK's Multi Skill. It does around 200+ for me which is a lot, sometimes it crits 300 to around 400.

Also, like many others said, it should be stronger than most skills because its locked to an element. Though it IS true that other multi skills can be stronger due to the resistances of monsters. Like Faerdin said, DK's multi will only be weaker when a monster has All Resistance.

I don't really understand why most of you are very concerned about the multi. I honestly don't mind since, again, it isn't one of the 8 standard elements. The only multi I truely hate is DragonLord's.

< Message edited by Zeldax -- 10/2/2014 4:45:47 >
Post #: 329
10/2/2014 6:05:16   
Roxas45
Member

Quoting The Doctor: Oh! you've redecorated. I dont like it.


Edit:

when your character is made smaller in certain quests or fights.... like against Dragons and so on, the DK armour looks like its rusted really badly.
and the buttons for rite and reap skills.... Im not sure why, but its making me cringe majorly.

this class doesnt look as strong in terms of animations, as its predecessor did. that one made it LOOK like (insert random kung fu and laser noises and so on) and really strong in terms of both appearances and damage. I wore the dK for the entire part of the fire orb saga. Im not sure I would want Drakonnan to see me in this new one...

Although, this new one makes you think youre not doing much at all. you're hitting the monsters one second, then the next theyre dead. youre there kinda thinking..... how did that happen??? I didnt do anything!! (swings sword, no sound, no animation no anything, but thousands of undead keel over with their last words ".....malls......" escaping their teeth)

Love the DOTs, but is it possible that when you shift the skills from damage to healing, the counter doesnt reset? I think it does...


< Message edited by Roxas45 -- 10/2/2014 7:36:05 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 330
10/2/2014 6:29:25   
Mr G W
Member

Most multi skills do 130%-140% damage. 120% for base classes, 200% for kathool though this one is water locked making it severely limited in many cases.

This one does 150% making it the second highest in game, if we ignore doomknight.

That being said, it will be the second strongest in the game unless you are fighting enemies with weaknesses.

It only takes a -7 weakness and -15 weakness for 140% and 130% multi skills respectively to surpass death knight's multi skill.

Then again, monsters without weaknesses are about as common as monsters with weakness so in the end it will be better in some situations just as often as it will be worse in other situations.

< Message edited by Mr G W -- 10/2/2014 6:33:06 >
AQ DF  Post #: 331
10/2/2014 9:27:19   
pitties
Member

nope it will never be better. If the monster has no weakness, the player can simply switch weapons and hit it neutrally. If it has weaknesses they can switch weapons and hit the weakness. DK doesn't have this versatility. It always does 150% unless the monster has an evil resistance (Very rare).
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 332
10/2/2014 9:35:04   
Mr G W
Member

quote:

nope it will never be better


As far as i know 150% is still better than 130%-140%.

If there are no weaknesses to exploit, DK will win. Otherwise the other classes will win if those weaknesses surpass -7 or -15 for 130% and 140% respectively-
AQ DF  Post #: 333
10/2/2014 9:49:23   
Zeldax
Member
 

 May I question some of you people? Why are you guys suddenly bashing against the Multi Skill? There's 1/2 day/s left of testing and that's suddenly what you guys are complaining about. People never complained that the Old DK's Multi was locked to Darkness (Which a lot of monsters in DF have resistance against Darkness) and now that its switched to Evil (Which no monster is resistant to, unless it has All Resistance), so many people are suddenly complaining.

Sure, other classes' multi's aren't element locked, but you should all know that DK's Multi should be stronger than most of the other multi's 'cause its locked to an element. This is probably the best element-locked Multi Skill out there. Once again, because no monster is resistant to Evil unless it has All Resistance.
Post #: 334
10/2/2014 10:00:39   
Mr G W
Member

Kathool is 200% and element locked, but being water element it makes it garbage for so many situations.

I personally don't have a problem with the evil multi skill though.
AQ DF  Post #: 335
10/2/2014 10:05:38   
Roxas45
Member

dont have a problem with the multi skill.


Although I was hoping that the animations would be totally new.
and some of the attacs.... are just attacks. The old DK kinda had everything is different thing going on.


also... the DK Ultimate Strike? I thought that most people didnt want this anymore because how the DK weapons and items were so so low leveled and all?
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 336
10/2/2014 10:09:22   
Chaosweaver Amon
Friendly!


 @Roxas I think it works better now that the Deathknight items have been revamped.
DF  Post #: 337
10/2/2014 10:12:54   
Ash
Member
quote:

I would like to request a 1 or 2 turn cooldown reduction in garb because I'm finding that the defensive aspect of the class is a bit worse than the offensive.

I'll check and see. You should be getting 4 turns. If you're only getting 2 something is causing it to expire early.

quote:

It's multi is locked with evil which no creature has a strength or weakness to, I don't see the problem. If it was locked to darkness were 60% of characters have resistance to the yeah I would be annoyed but evil is more reliable, I prefer it like this.

This is the reason the ele comp on the multi is not more. If it was Darkness locked it would get more of a boost to damage, as Evil is a "non-standard" element it doesn't get as much because almost nothing is strong or weak against it.

quote:

this class doesnt look as strong in terms of animations, as its predecessor did. that one made it LOOK like (insert random kung fu and laser noises and so on) and really strong in terms of both appearances and damage. I wore the dK for the entire part of the fire orb saga. Im not sure I would want Drakonnan to see me in this new one...

Love the DOTs, but is it possible that when you shift the skills from damage to healing, the counter doesnt reset? I think it does...

I used what I had. Some of the revamps are getting new art, but none at this time are getting new animations. Animations are the most labor intensive part of anything in the game and that means that making new ones would take a LOT of an artist's time. That's the reason Guardian took so long to get done art wise and it still needs adjustments.

The DoT/HoT doesn't reset if you're using it on one enemy. If you're using it in a multi battle and targeting all over the place it won't be able to keep up. If you're fighting one on one or chaining a single target in a multi battle you'll be fine.

quote:

There's 1/2 day/s left of testing and that's suddenly what you guys are complaining about.

Testing will go on for as long as it needs to. If people are still trying to test it it'll go on another week. Hopefully the explanation of why the ele comp isn't higher will let people make a more educated decision on what they feel is best in terms of giving me a definitive suggestion but DK testing can go on till next Thursday honestly and it wouldn't bother me.

quote:

also... the DK Ultimate Strike? I thought that most people didnt want this anymore because how the DK weapons and items were so so low leveled and all?

Erm...didn't you see all those weapons and items I gave new levels to that are part of the new empowered skill? Like over 30 new ones?

< Message edited by Ash -- 10/2/2014 10:18:24 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 338
10/2/2014 10:16:44   
Zeldax
Member
 
quote:

Testing will go on for as long as it needs to. If people are still trying to test it it'll go on another week. Hopefully the explanation of what the ele comp isn't higher will let people make a more educated decision on what they feel is best in terms of giving me a definitive suggestion but DK testing can go on till next Thursday honestly and it wouldn't bother me.

That's good to know, but still though. Its been almost a week since it was released for Testing, and suddenly, everyone's talking about how the hate DK's Multi Skill. Like some others, I prefer it the way it already is. I was even happy when I found out it was Evil instead of Darkness.
Post #: 339
10/2/2014 10:24:43   
Roxas45
Member

Im sorry but i havent been THAT active on DF for a while now... But when did the new DK items come out? O_O and where are they?

any new art or just new levels? and same shebang? Cape, Weapon, hoot, ring and belt? or... is there anything new?


and... Im saying that this time the DK is a lot more powerful than the previous one. It takes less time to kill things this time around. :)

but please change the buttons for rite and reap? (Im really sorry but thats the one thing that I really dislike about this armour...)

also, while using low and medium quality to play the game without lagging, the entire class looks a little like its made of rust and not a corrupted paladin armour..



And thanks Ash for clearing it up :)
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 340
10/2/2014 10:25:32   
megakyle777
Member

I don't hate it, my question was more of a hypothetical question really.

Hey Ash, this is a long shot, but can we get a 10-15% boost on the Evil Multi on the admittedly not balanced based argument that Evil likes power and so Evil element would hit harder?
DF  Post #: 341
10/2/2014 10:42:47   
Zeldax
Member
 

 @Roxas45
quote:

I love the new art up close, but like someone else said, it looks brown from a distance. xD

quote:

That's scaling in the game itself to make the armor "smaller" looking in zoomed out places. The brown you're seeing is actually the gold trim on the armor scaled "larger". It's a weird and odd thing the game does. You can kinda see it on other items if you find a few that are drawn like that.


< Message edited by Zeldax -- 10/2/2014 10:43:12 >
Post #: 342
10/2/2014 10:46:07   
DarkLore
Member

I am happy the multi isn't darkness locked anymore. So I understand why DK's unholy shadow is evil. Can it be renamed? The name sounds decieving Like it should be renamed something like unholy evil.

< Message edited by DarkLore -- 10/2/2014 10:47:22 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 343
10/2/2014 10:47:47   
Zeldax
Member
 

 You guys... You're complaining about such minor things... Skill buttons don't even affect your gameplay, and neither does the skill name...
Post #: 344
10/2/2014 10:50:10   
DarkLore
Member

i'm going to change the subject to end the debating over the multi. Anyone want to discuss other skills that may need adjusting?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 345
10/2/2014 10:58:44   
Zeldax
Member
 

 On Ash's Skill Breakdown, it says that Garb of Undeath gives +140 M/P/M, but in-game it says +150.
Post #: 346
10/2/2014 11:05:11   
DarkLore
Member

Could be a typo. Does it actually do 10 percent more than it says?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 347
10/2/2014 11:06:21   
Zeldax
Member
 

 I don't really know honestly. I tried using the skill against Voltabolt's Challenge. I rarely dodge

Nvm. For some reason, after I posted this, I kept dodging a lot...

< Message edited by Zeldax -- 10/2/2014 11:08:15 >
Post #: 348
10/2/2014 11:09:55   
Ash
Member
quote:

Hey Ash, this is a long shot, but can we get a 10-15% boost on the Evil Multi on the admittedly not balanced based argument that Evil likes power and so Evil element would hit harder?

If I can hypothetically say no. :P It might get a cooldown reduction if no one can actually agree on a suggestion.

quote:

But when did the new DK items come out? O_O and where are they?
any new art or just new levels? and same shebang? Cape, Weapon, hoot, ring and belt? or... is there anything new?

Go talk to the DeathKnight trainer and click the items button and just check through all the buttons that come up. That'll answer all you're question. (DA and DC have the same art)

quote:

On Ash's Skill Breakdown, it says that Garb of Undeath gives +140 M/P/M, but in-game it says +150.

Clear your cache if things don't match up. That's usually because I made a change and rolled it but you're sitting on the older version. Also the Pierce defense does work, certain enemies have far more bonus than the defense can block. I set up a test monster with no bonus on its attacks and pierce damage and it blocked every single attack.

< Message edited by Ash -- 10/2/2014 11:10:46 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 349
10/2/2014 11:16:03   
megakyle777
Member

You can say no if you like. I knew that one was a long shot.
DF  Post #: 350
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