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RE: NPC Wins, A battle of old ways vs new ones

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8/23/2013 18:46:02   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 The fact of the matter is before I would get excited every hour to NPC. It was a time of relief. It was time to know that i would be getting at least 15 wins in the faction today and I wouldnt get kicked.

Now I only get excited at power hour. See the difference?

What's going to be interesting is the Yearly armor that Snork gives. It won't be hard to obtain anymore... I wonder how the community will react. I've changed the title to reflect what this topic has turned into.


< Message edited by Chosen 0ne -- 8/25/2013 22:27:15 >

_____________________________
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 26
8/23/2013 18:53:13   
Mother1
Member

@ chosen

That is assuming Snork get's a Halloween drop. But if he does get one this new system will eliminate the old compliant threads that happened last year to up the drop rate due to having unlimited times to get the item plus until they get the item the first 100 times will reward credits.

But on a downside though unlike the two years before we will be going after a rare skin unless it has a special core to it.
Epic  Post #: 27
8/23/2013 19:14:49   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

they are dancing around the truth , the truth is they want free wins

the truth is that this game is win driven.
and no win is "free" i already debated this argument before.

NPCs were viewed as "easy" by people who were either dumb or too ignorant to realize that most people they were viewing them from a lvl 35 full varium vs a lvl 30 NPC stand point.
theres just no comparing a lvl 35 full var vs a lvl 30 NPC. its like being full var lvl 35 and fighting a lvl 30 non var.
and players shouldn't be blamed for this since it was the devs who balanced it in such way.

a proper NPCing method would have been for players to only be able to challenge NPCs of their level or up, so if im lvl 35 i can only challenge lvl 35+ NPCs. the reason i bring this up is because NPCs that are level 35 such as titan, nightwraith, and charfade, are not "easy".

either that, or do what mechquest does where every NPC in the game is the same level as you. (so no more level 1 city guards for lvl 35s)

and back to the first sentence, do not blame players for wanting a way to achieve wins via PvE.
this entire game is win driven, daily champs, all times, daily faction champs, etc. it all requires wins.
this is why NPCing without wins is a waste of time, and a useless aspect of the game due to the way its set up.

its very simple, if you're not getting wins, you're not progressing.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 8/23/2013 19:16:42 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 28
8/23/2013 19:26:26   
Mother1
Member

@ Goldslayer1

I read your piece once again but I have to ask. What about when we get missions that requires us to battle NPC that aren't our level? Your method right there would screw the masses over that aren't the matching levels of these NPC.

Lastly as I said before The staff wanted NPC to be for farming credits not for 15 wins an hour and padding NPC records. While change in the game is sometimes subjective the staff since it is their game can change the game the way they want be it for the better or for the worse (which is also a matter of opinion depending on the player)

They wanted it pure PVP win wise Not PVE and unless they decide to do something they only did once (Completely undo a change which was temporary with the legion vs exile filter) I don't see this happening.
Epic  Post #: 29
8/23/2013 19:37:19   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

@ Goldslayer1

I read your piece once again but I have to ask. What about when we get missions that requires us to battle NPC that aren't our level? Your method right there would screw the masses over that aren't the matching levels of these NPC.

after you're done fighting the NPCs of your level x amount of times, you can still challenge them but after that x amount, you wont recieve wins. this allows you to keep doing your missions but not receive wins. it shouldn't be that hard to think up a solution.

quote:

Lastly as I said before The staff wanted NPC to be for farming credits not for 15 wins an hour and padding NPC records. While change in the game is sometimes subjective the staff since it is their game can change the game the way they want be it for the better or for the worse (which is also a matter of opinion depending on the player)

that is true, it is their game. its also their "stain" on their portfolio if the game ends up terrible.
if i was a CEO of a gaming company and i was looking for staff for a new game in the making, i dont think i would be impressed by their resume given the current state of ED.

quote:

They wanted it pure PVP win wise Not PVE and unless they decide to do something they only did once (Completely undo a change which was temporary with the legion vs exile filter) I don't see this happening.

this notion that it should only be pure pvp is a fallace arguement. oversoul is a pvp game but it also has its PvE aspect of the game.

and given how most of AE's game are mostly PvE driven (AQ, AQW, Mechquest, DF, etc) it is not a wise decision to completely cut out that aspect of the game.

not only is bad for the game due to its condition of balance, it also neglected the PvE side that was already here before.
but its also a bad move in a business sense because they neglected a consumer base, and continues to neglect AE's other consumer base from other games who may want to come over to this game.

overall, it was a massive mistake on ED's part, and they are too stubborn to admit it. just like they were too stubborn to admit that plasma armor was a mistake, and didn't want to remove it from the game, instead taking another route by nerfing other things, which only made everything worse.

EDIT:
also if you go to Artix.com, Epicduel is listed as a browser MMO, not PVP.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 8/23/2013 19:45:05 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 30
8/23/2013 20:00:41   
Mother1
Member

@ Goldslayer

I was refering to your saying that you could only fight NPC at your level change when I made my first statement. How could we do missions for NPC if the NPC needed is at a different level when we can only challenge NPC of our own level? That was what I was getting at goldslayer. Your idea would cause that issue.

Not to mention with the new system missions where you need to beat NPC a certain amount of times, as well as get item drops for NPC that aren't 100% are now a whole lot easier then they were before. With the old system sure I could get 5 wins off of a NPC per hour but what if I didn't get the item or items I needed from said NPC within that 5 window limit? If I don't have brain wash I had to put off the mission for an hour where as now you don't have that wait. This is another positive I see to this change. With NPC missions that require item drops and beating them X amount of times you can finish them quicker then with the old system.

On you last comment I know this is off topic but I said it before and I will say it again. Plasma armor exposed the Overpowered Static charge that the once underpowered class had but ignored due to the class as a whole being underpowered. While the move may have been a blunder in some people's eyes it exposed this overpowered move that in it's prime was even more OP then the current Assimilation and static smash.
Epic  Post #: 31
8/23/2013 20:11:28   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

@ Goldslayer

I was refering to your saying that you could only fight NPC at your level change when I made my first statement. How could we do missions for NPC if the NPC needed is at a different level when we can only challenge NPC of our own level? That was what I was getting at goldslayer. Your idea would cause that issue.

ill put in this hypothetical situation so you understand better.

NPC challanges per hour that can count as wins: the first 15 (like before)
NPCs that can count as wins: same level as yours or higher.

im level 35, and i challenge a level 15 NPC, he does not count as a win due to not being in my level range.
im level 35 and i farm level 35 NPCs: first 15 challenges may count as wins, the rest can still be challenged but will grant no wins, exp, tokens, influence, etc.

basically, you can still "challenge" NPCs after your first 15 matches, but after those 15, they will no longer count as wins or grant any bonuses such as exp tokens and influence.
the same for lower level NPCs, you can challenge them, but due to them not being of your level range, even if you're victorious you will not get a win because you failed to meet the win criteria.

quote:

On you last comment I know this is off topic but I said it before and I will say it again. Plasma armor exposed the Overpowered Static charge that the once underpowered class had but ignored due to the class as a whole being underpowered. While the move may have been a blunder in some people's eyes it exposed this overpowered move that in it's prime was even more OP then the current Assimilation and static smash.


yes static charge itself was not balanced but the entire balance of epicduel is based on having good skills and bad skills to "balance" the classes (which makes the whole "classes" thing obsolete, thus why i offered a custom skill tree solution)
SC may have been OP, but CH was nowhere near being close to OP before plasma armor came around.
AQW Epic  Post #: 32
8/23/2013 20:26:23   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 What if they made it the best of both worlds? You can get 15 wins from NPC's an hour and if you do a 16th battle you'll only gain credits? That is until the next hour.

Seems like a solution that pleases everyone.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 33
8/23/2013 20:29:24   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

What if they made it the best of both worlds? You can get 15 wins from NPC's an hour and if you do a 16th battle you'll only gain credits? That is until the next hour.

Seems like a solution that pleases everyone.

^
precisely why i did not mention credits being removed after the 15th battle of your level range. because i think a credit gain could still be useful for some players.
AQW Epic  Post #: 34
8/24/2013 4:21:59   
Deathknightmare
Member

I would be happy with the old system where you could only get 75 NPCs a day if you paid for it. Or just limiting the amount of NPCs you could get daily for wins to like 45. I would be happy to fight Nightwraith and NPCs like that just to stop going 1 v 1 all the time. I think you would get a lot more players to come back. There was a time in Delta when Epic and Exile was full and you would have to go to Legion to fight. Even Legion would get 200 to 300 people on it. I mean when I 1 v 1 now I end up fighting the same players over and over again. I have fought the same guy 4 times in a row because there are not that many people playing anymore. This never happened in Delta. They need to bring NPCs back so the people that pay to play will come back. If you don't want to NPC then dont. Yes, I do like to win. Losing stinks. I don't play a video game to get pounded by a tac merc tank who poisons me and pounds me 4 times in a row. You say adapt and change. Well, I tried that and it is boring. I like playing the character that I like playing that's why I stick with it.
Post #: 35
8/24/2013 4:36:46   
Mother1
Member

@ Deathknightmare

Even back in delta there were times I fought the same player 4-5 times even when NPC awarded wins so in all honestly that one doesn't honestly hold water since that was already happening. As for players with the same builds that isn't because of NPC either, that is because those are the current builds that are overused/work due to balance. As said before they wanted to accomadate the lower levels who didn't have a farm able source for income without destroying their records as well as make the 1 vs 1 LB reflex PVP not PVE so they removed NPC wins.

Plus even if you brought back NPC as wins it won't bring back everyone who left. There were many reasons people left the game here are the following I know of besides NPC removal

1 The removal of the varium advantage
2 Enhancements going bye bye and the compensation
3 The super enhanced luck system
4 The lack of new features many of the masses claimed the game needs (even if they are biased)
5 broken battle system
6 bad balance with the classes.

A lot of people are claiming NPC are the main reason people quit when at best only a few older players quit a best for this reason alone.
Epic  Post #: 36
8/24/2013 8:43:02   
Thylek Shran
Member

I think that the remove of NPC wins was good. But there should be a seperate
win statistic for NPC wins beside 1vs1, 2vs2 and Juggernaut so that NPC wins
count toward the overall wins and so for the ranks (Warlord, Commander, ..).
This because you invest time to duel NPCs (which could be also challenging)
and this should be honored and reflected by a win count too.

Atm there is the problem that the majority of NPCs only reward credits which is
just not enough imo. So its not worth to duel NPCs if you are not doing missions
that involve NPC duels or farm for rare NPC drops like bacon, emeralds and Yeti pelts.
Farming NPCs can be even worse because lower level NPCs also reward less credits
while lower level players reward the full credit reward like NPCs with the same level
than the player.

_____________________________


v.35.3 (2016-01-23) ~ beam.to/shran
DF Epic  Post #: 37
8/24/2013 9:16:05   
Jekyll
Member

^Agree with you completely.

I think that we can always come to a compromise. NPC wins are recorded separately from PvP wins from the point of implementation onwards.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 38
8/24/2013 15:32:05   
Queen brutella
Member

Yes I agree is it an pvp based game so really you shouldn't be able too spam npc wins. It was a good idea for them to take away npc wins on your record. So now people can't brag about their fake records - it's legit now.
Epic  Post #: 39
8/24/2013 16:06:54   
lionblades
Member

^Who are you agreeing with? Compromising 15 wins that count per day is not abusing NPCs, nor is a separate win count for NPCs as it distinguishes against player vs player wins.
AQW  Post #: 40
8/24/2013 16:14:51   
Mother1
Member

@ lionblades

Queen was talking about when you could get 15 wins per HOUR back in delta.

Back then you could get up to 360 wins off of NPC per day at the max without brainwashing. Even more if you did so.
Epic  Post #: 41
8/24/2013 16:24:10   
Dual Thrusters
Member

If you didn't sleep
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 42
8/24/2013 19:07:39   
CN2025
Member

people buy energy drinks for that reason even titan does it :O
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 43
8/25/2013 21:40:18   
uria9
Member

NPC wins doesn't really matter as long as you are making credits, items cost way too much for how much effort it takes to earn credits. Some people don't do it for the wins but for the $$$ cause they're poor
Post #: 44
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