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11/15/2013 21:40:03   
Caspyin
Member
 

 I try to keep my own noob mouth shut until after I have thoroughly experienced all of these rapid changes. In hopes to give a somewhat subjective opinion...

However............

I cannot stop myself from immediately expressing my disgust against the ridiculousness of static grenade.

I absolutely agree that BH's needed an energy regen-ing ability, in order to compete with all the other classes. But this ability is beyond them all. Whoever the developer (dev) is for BH, basically got away with murder in allowing this to enter the game, and they have to know it.

One of the only energy regein-ing abilities with an "improvable" base stat, which is TECH, hmmmmm what is the other awesome ability BH's have that is also improved upon by tech?? OHHH YEA.

SMOKE SCREEN.

Gosh, this sure is making BH's have a diverse build. (/sarcasm)

BH's just load up on tech, and why would they not. It makes their range attacks against them nearly impossible. It Increases their smoke screen (lowering your phys def). Increasing their Static Grenade, which steals energy, and simultaneously gains them energy. Increases their energy resistance, always a good thing. Increases their robot dmg, which they love to finish you with.

Oh and did I mention static grenade costs 0? Good luck countering that ability.

Have a nice day.... won't be playing against unless either A) BH's static grenade gets nerf'd .... OR B) I become a BH.

We'll see which comes first.




-Caspyin

Post edited. Watch your language. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 11/15/2013 21:50:03 >
Post #: 1
11/15/2013 22:00:34   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Okay, I've been hiding in the shadows for the past few months, but lots of people are oblivious to some things. This is the only post I'm gonna make for a while because I'm trying to separate myself from ED.

First off, I have not experienced this new release myself but I have experienced last week's release.
While I do agree energy stealing with tech is... possibly troublesome, it's not THAT big of a deal. I would personally like to see some energy regaining attacks scaling with max energy itself.

Secondly, this strategy of the BHs is easily managed with the ridiculous amounts of energy flow changes made recently. I can think of a counter for almost all classes.

First up, TM. Assimilation and battery backup should be enough to energy harass the opponent. You can loop low levels of defense matrix and field medics, and fire scythe at low levels is a good physical skill that penetrates some of their defense. Assimilation should also thin down their energy if they drain yours, and you should logically regenerate more than they can take, particularly with malfunction ruining their scaling.

I can think of an easy solution for Merc. You can always outtank BHs with hybrid because it's pretty good now. Also, consume all your energy as fast as you can with hard hitting attacks and heals like bunker, field medic, and adrenaline rush. Then, after they steal those last 10-20 points of your energy instantly take it back and use it all up and turn the game into an energy stalemate.

Most of these are based off of speculation and my own thought process, but they should prove at least somewhat effective in your current dilemma.

For CH, it might be a little trickier. I'm not entirely sure of the power of static charge now, but I do know that malfunction will first reduce the tech of the BH. If you're a decent CH that wants a good win ratio you should have at least decent support because it fuels important skills like matrix and malfunction. Just remember, as a CH, whatever you do, don't EMP on the first turn... seriously, you're just going to kill yourself by doing that. Right now I'm thinking that a low-defense strength-support CH would work really well. Static charge is unblockable, can give enough energy for a single low level cheap shot if you max it out with good strength, support, and malf, and you can cover for what plasma armor and your low dex doesn't cover for with a superpowered matrix. Poison bots also wouldn't damage you at all. That's just one build that comes to mind.

I'm a BM right now, and I can say it's pathetically easy to counter static smash, and probably static grenade as well. You just wait till they use it on you, then you energy parasite right back and take what they took from you, since it's based off of their current energy. As a high win ratio BM you should be running a high energy parasite and high defensive buffs, as well as a decent heal. You probably only need level 5-7 mark of blood as well. Just outtank while dealing damage, and rely on level 1 bludgeons to do any necessary static damage. Overall energy parasite is a great counter skill when your energy was just drained.

TLM seems the easiest to me. Just spam atom smash and use mineral armor's ridiculous defense buff to counter smoke entirely because smoke doesn't decrease the effects of it. Correctly timed battery backups not used right before they can static grenade you will also let you heal loop.

< Message edited by Exploding Penguin -- 11/15/2013 22:01:01 >
Epic  Post #: 2
11/15/2013 22:08:34   
GearzHeadz
Member

^You just explained it very well, what most people are used to being able to drain a BHs energy and then them completely useless the rest of the battle. Now they have a better chance. But the grenade is powerful either way, I feel maybe keep the energy drain, but the energy regain from it should be decreased to 25%... Maybe.

0 energy? Atom smash. Assimilation. Not the only one that costs 0...
Smoke also got a big nerf btw.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 3
11/15/2013 22:10:32   
CN2025
Member

i dont like the new smoke screen animation change it back please ...

every thing else is alright i suppose its a big project
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 4
11/16/2013 6:08:14   
kaierti1
Banned


 this skill must be changed improve with support. it need for balance
Post #: 5
11/16/2013 6:26:26   
martinsen5
Member

quote:

but the energy regain from it should be decreased to 25%... Maybe.


@GearzHeadz, So instead a BH can only regain 10(+) EP instead of 20(+)? How would that at all be helpful.. I'd rather have the cooldown longer as tbh 3 turns has so far made me able to regain energy when I don't even need it.
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
11/16/2013 6:33:51   
Ranloth
Banned


 The point of EMP Grenade change was to give them reliable way to get Energy back, not more powerful Energy draining skill. Just bring it - in terms of power - just below Static Smash. Why? Smash requires you to use a Club AND can be blocked. Return wise, buff it to 75%. So ~same skill but works a bit different.
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
11/16/2013 12:31:37   
Elite Tuga
Member

@ Rabblefroth & Everyone Else
Hi, I'm back. Just wanted to point out that, Bounty Hunters deserved a buff up considering they were underdogs, but as many are aware like myself, this last update gave them a bit too much power (considering that some skills like; Battery, Assimilation & Static Smash got nerfed to a reasonable level) here's why:
Static Grenade; Steals 50% of w/e they drain from the enemy Energy pool, it costs 0 (no sacrifice) & plus it improves with Tech, so B. Hunter Tanks, focus 5 are most likely going to be the way forward as the main build. Unless they get nerfed reasonably.

To improve fairness static grenade should be:
4 cool-downs rather than just 3 (like Battery Backup).
Static Grenade shouldn't improve with anything. If it should then make it improve with support or just let it remain as Tech, but make it go up 1+ stat 'Static Grenade energy steal points' every 5.5 rather than 4.5 Tech points.

Outcome:
That should even out more against other classes with Energy gain/steal skills like Tech's & Tac. Merc's for example who use Battery Backup pointlessly now, because Hunters remove more energy than what Tech's & Tac. Merc's gain with Battery & not only that but they are 1 step ahead with 1 less cool-down too, making B. Backup near useless against Bounties. So static grenade needs 1 extra cool-down, deducting & or sacrificing in order to use its new ability more modestly.

P.s: Everything else is better, good job ED Team!


(Iv'e posted this comment 3x no further spam intended).

< Message edited by Elite Tuga -- 11/16/2013 12:57:13 >
Epic  Post #: 8
11/16/2013 12:32:23   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 So yea, I just played about 3 1v1s with different tech abuse BH builds using my BM 4 focus tech tank. 2 out of the 3 I won, but all were very close games where we were within 1 attack of killing each other.

Just time your EP draining skills right and don't let the energy you need for important skills get taken away.
Epic  Post #: 9
11/17/2013 10:59:49   
Sensei Chan
Member

SUPPORTED!
Epic  Post #: 10
11/17/2013 12:06:49   
Scyze
Member

@Elite Tuga
quote:

Bounty Hunters deserved a buff up considering they were underdogs
This isn't true. I've known a build for a long time and it's managed to get my friends win ratios above 80% with over 100 wins. Using Smoke Screen, and going in on the offense with Physical attacks, meant that you'd be dealing a lot of damage. However, because of Blood Lust, it made it even harder to beat them. With the correct combination, you could end up making your build copied.

@Caspyin,
You seem to have a problem with Bounty Hunters spamming Technology. If you've just had this problem after the latest update, then I'd think you're imagining things. A Bounty Hunter with high Technology has been around from the start of Omega. I can't remember once when Smoke Screen required a different stat for it to be stronger.
Also, the example that you gave of Technology Bounty Hunters should've come up before. Surely they were stronger in the past. That build was one of the best Bounty Hunter builds after the release of Omega and it was quite hard to beat at times. So, it's either that you have a problem with Static Grenade giving back 50% of the Energy or you're just taking advantage of Static Grenade to nerf the whole Class. EMP Grenade worked the same as Static Grenade but the only difference is that it regains 50% of the Energy taken away.

Everything now (nearly) is strategic. If you want to win, you need to be better than your opponent. You now need to think when to use such Skills so you have a chance at winning. There are people out there who will copy the most popular build and one with the highest win ratio. Leave that alone. It's their choice, if they want to be like that, let it be.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
11/17/2013 12:11:31   
I Underlord I
Member

Keep several things in mind:
  • There is a flat 50% energy regain.
  • The technology boost is not too high; one requires an inordinate amount to increase the power of the skill sufficiently. Since BHs aren't good tanks, it isn't the most viable approach.
  • Most likely, most if not all BHs at high levels have Level 10 in that skill, as it is needed to be effective enough.
  • The opponent needs energy for Bounty Hunters to regain it, and they cannot gain more than the opponent has in the first place.
  • Every class can easily match the skill. Also recall the powerful, entirely reliable energy regain of Cyber Hunters as well as the significantly more draining EMP.
  • Smokescreen was recently nerfed (with Malfunction), and it is not utilized as much in battles, especially due to the buff to Hybrid Armor and Mineral Armor.
  • There is a three-turn cooldown, as it is with the other energy-regaining skills.
  • Since the energy-draining and energy-regaining skills are synthesized into one, it is often wasted at the beginning of battles to steal energy.

    While I agree the staff overdid it a bit, it's only "too much" when they start abusing technology and spamming the skill; additionally, it only works when the opponent has or regains energy before a given Bounty Hunter uses Static Grenade, and it can be countered.

    EDIT: Fixed list.

    < Message edited by I Underlord I -- 11/17/2013 12:15:22 >

    _____________________________

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    • AQ  Post #: 12
    11/17/2013 12:15:31   
    DarkDevil
    Member

    		i just got 2 points.

    first static grenade was evolved to bountys as to counter battery backup since it has evolved so did emp so it doesn't make sense that it will get the longest cooldown in game of 4 turns , even with 80+ tech and max grenade the power is 43 where i couldve reached that by 5 in the old emp this one scales too slow making up for the no cost thing.

    second "i am dump with no technology awarness but i have good friends supporting me and i have made this static grenade myself that drains alot of energy" see it just doesn't make sense a grenade aimed for energy to rely on anything but tech.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 13
    11/17/2013 13:42:12   
    Elite Tuga
    Member

    		I am countering way to many Bounty Hunters now than ever before since last update. Its clearly because unimaginative build players who want the easy life lol want to abuse 'static grenade' & effortlessly counter classes like Tech Mages & Tact/Mercs who use Battery/Static Smash. No class that gains good amounts of energy can count with it any more bcz Bounties specifically wait for you to revitalize energy just so they can go second & strip it all off in 1 go with NO SACRIFICE! The skill is way too STRONG. If know one see's it that way then they need to get their eyes checked, Lol.
    Epic  Post #: 14
    11/17/2013 13:43:16   
    Elite Tuga
    Member

    		Skill needs a NERF, just like Tech Mages & Mercs got one last update & now Bounties static grenade skill should too. Omega was suppose to be a strategic phase abolishing strong moves with no sacrifice & transforming them into good moves with some sort of cost, what happened to that this last update?.. Static Grenade is 0 cost & steals a good load of energy more than Battery can ever gain, plus 50% of energy back to casters pool & to top it up it improves wonderfully with Tech not forgetting it has less cool-downs than Battery by 1, so its all ways 1 step ahead as well.

    My Modest Conclusions Overall:
    Make static grenade improve with support or nothing at all (this will compromise Bounties Tank builds & make it less abusive defence & energy steal, wise).
    Possibly put a fixed 25 points energy steal & 100% back to caster's pool (reversing skills effect around seems more fair bcz it won't make skills like battery & static smash completely pointless (stealing less energy from their opponent/s) but gaining more out of the reasonable amount they steal to casters pool without making static grenade useless).

    Please don't troll this idea is pretty rational in my opinion. Its still beneficial despite the nerf because its the one of the only ways bounties can regain energy to their pool (excluding generator & piston punch) thus its still useful & doesn't make other classes revitalizing skills as pathetic.


    < Message edited by Elite Tuga -- 11/17/2013 13:44:29 >
    Epic  Post #: 15
    11/17/2013 13:44:35   
    Altador987
    Member

    		or maybe you should stop relying on battery backup and or atom smasher so much as your only means to win... those who've figured this out aren't having such a huge problem with bounties... but then again those players don't rely on one or two stats and one or two skills to win a match either
    AQW Epic  Post #: 16
    11/17/2013 13:47:28   
    Elite Tuga
    Member

    		That would reduce build variety if I were to stop relying on battery because not everyone wants to be example; STR or support build that just relies on weapons DMG, I'd like to use my energy for fun moves like supercharge.
    Epic  Post #: 17
    11/17/2013 13:47:45   
    GearzHeadz
    Member

    		Ah yes good point. I remember most these players complaining often say, just because something is a bane to your build doesn't mean its OP. In all honesty it really isn't, just don't use your energy drain or gain move first. Keep them at an energy stalemate, whoever uses it first, gets drained.

    < Message edited by GearzHeadz -- 11/17/2013 13:49:03 >
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
    11/17/2013 13:51:59   
    Altador987
    Member

    		my point is that there are ways around the emp, for starters against tech mages and tact mercs and even regular mercs i dont use my emp to steal your mp i use frostbite to take some away first and use my own and wait for others to eventually try and steal mine or replenish theirs after they've used all theirs up so instead of preparing and keeping the flow of energy they just use all theirs up and expect to get just about all of it back in one swoop and if you do that fine but then you get emped, that was the case before this update now bh's just happen to get half of whatever they steal back
    AQW Epic  Post #: 19
    11/17/2013 15:57:40   
    DarkDevil
    Member

    		its just the same as static smash , you just don't see a merc with maxed static smash and 100+ str , anyway as mercs offensive skills are on tech and support so static smash is placed on str while bountys have their offensive skills on dex and str (with req supp on masacre) so placing it on tech is best to not make a concentrated offensive builds (like the old retour and plasma bolt on tech) so all bountys need alot of tech so they can invest more in things like poison and masacre and blood mark while only requiring low lvl of emp and smoke so you can't make a full build in bounty with just 1 stat like other classes , even dex would need tech for resistance and static grenade and str will need support for masacre and tech will need str cus smoke alone doesn't do it.

    < Message edited by DarkDevil -- 11/17/2013 16:06:24 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 20
    11/17/2013 16:18:15   
    kaierti1
    Banned


    		 DarkDevil,
    static grenade not same as static smash man. 1. static smash is blockable. 2. static smash can steal 30-35 energy and back 20-25 energy << it is the average. 3. emp grenade can steal 46-48 energy and back 23-24 energy. so its big difference
    Post #: 21
    11/17/2013 16:20:30   
    GearzHeadz
    Member

    		@Kaierti1
    Well then I want to fight the mercs you've been fighting, the ones that have that skill level 10 that I fight drain me about 40 ep and can regain about 33 of that.
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 22
    11/17/2013 16:23:54   
    Altador987
    Member

    		@^ sorry i'd write your name but the last letter of your name is a stuck key on my keyboard lol but i've actually never fought the merc you're talking about i started to wonder if they existed as most can use lvl 3 and get like 18 with no strength, but then again i also have only seen one of the abusive bounties that everyone has talked so much about so maybe i've just been really lucky these hours i've been playin
    AQW Epic  Post #: 23
    11/17/2013 16:26:50   
    kaierti1
    Banned


    		 and please don't talk about merces because they are weak as blood mages. they don't have hybrid armor << so they don't have good protect. they don't have malfunction or smoke. so they dont have strategy how to win, only bunker. they also don't have something like deadly aim or mark of blood << that means they dont have good strength. and if static smash will block they losing 100%. support mercenaries are bad too because u can use reflex boost or emp or assimilitation or defense matrix to protect urself and destroy them.

    < Message edited by kaierti1 -- 11/17/2013 16:29:56 >
    Post #: 24
    11/17/2013 16:29:14   
    GearzHeadz
    Member

    		Mercs are the ones with hybrid armor... deadly aim isn't around anymore... If you use emp, they can then just gain it back, if they have the skill, then continue with their artillery.
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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