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Some thoughts on the current gameplay

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12/3/2013 17:23:49   
zion
Member

Is it just me or are the new passives energy regen/draining moves? If I understand correctly, the point of getting rid of passives was allowing players to use the skill trees in wildly different and creative ways because there would be no "must have" moves. Well, all that seems to have been accomplished was a transition from passive skills to energy skills. To me, the battle length has been unnecessarily lengthened (to where missions of 20 wins have become downright tedious) due to there being two battles going on at once - a battle for energy and health.
It seems to me that energy moves have become even more vital than the original passives in some respects and further disrupts the gameplay because you can easily have 6 rounds in a 1v1 fight that are purely energy gain/drain moves (not even talking about 2v2 which can sometimes go on forever).
I think the impact of energy gain/drain needs to be nerfed to the ground (and I'm a TM right now) to speed the matches up. Specific examples can be found in the suggestions forum I'm sure.
Do you think the gameplay has been unnecessarily lengthened due to the switch from passives to actives and an emphasis on turn-wasting energy moves?

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
12/3/2013 17:29:59   
Mother1
Member

I have to say this. They just change the must haves from passives, to energy drains/gains.

IMO this isn't balance in the least.
Epic  Post #: 2
12/3/2013 19:15:00   
Buffy A. Summers
Member

"Do you think the gameplay has been unnecessarily lengthened due to the switch from passives to actives and an emphasis on turn-wasting energy moves?"

YES.

~ Buffy
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
12/3/2013 19:30:23   
BurningFlames
Member

I'm with Buffy on this one. I don't like all the energy gain/loss and it's making games last way too long
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
12/3/2013 19:42:22   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator
quote:

Now with energy draining skills that cost 0 energy to use and are typically a very good choice (I'd like to call them the new passives because they are in a sense), it is possible for an opponent to fight with viable attacks without even needing to strike a single time.


Stated this in a balance discussion on Hatchling Rush.

I can understand the choice to make battles more dynamic through energy flow changes, but since passives got changed to actives and some are still very necessary (namely mark of blood), the need for energy just increased. With this increase in the need of energy comes the increase in the need for moves like static smash, static grenade, energy parasite, battery backup, etc.. Debuffs are also very useful and they cost energy as well, and the fact that all cores also cost energy really just maxes out the highest possible need for energy ever in the history of ED.
Epic  Post #: 5
12/3/2013 21:58:26   
Mother1
Member

@ buffy

If you read the design notes, it wasn't the passives to actives change that did this. It was when the staff did the last balance update. They felt matches were to short so they nerfed offensives builds while leaving tank builds alone.

Anyone who liked tanking felt this was the best change ever, however on the other end of the stick anyone who liked quick fights hated that change.
Epic  Post #: 6
12/3/2013 22:24:09   
Midnightsoul
Member

I'm still fine with this. Some moves need to be changed, but things really aren't that bad...
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 7
12/4/2013 4:49:33   
Pemberton
Member
 

 The balance issues are exploited much more because of class jumping/ build copying.
Post #: 8
12/4/2013 9:11:33   
Remorse
Member

^ Balannce is exploited because the devs leave it open to being.


I hate it when people blame players for wrecking balance when in a game the whole point is to do the best thing possible.

It is the devs and the devs alone fault, that they leave the game being obvious, broken and easily exploited.

Plus you also need to consider most people don't like having to copy builds, many players just what to be given a fighting chance and it is the devs fault that choices for builds are so few if you want to be effective, and compete with others.

It is also their fault that strategy has little impact on the battles making variety extremely slim.




< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/4/2013 9:13:30 >
Epic  Post #: 9
12/4/2013 10:02:44   
Pemberton
Member
 

 ^Nah. Do you even fight? 90% of players are either BH or TM. There can never be perfect balance and players will ALWAYS change and copy to the best class.
You blame the DEVS but it is really hard to balance and make content. You are probably another class jumper BH and you are defending your jumping or copying.
Post #: 10
12/4/2013 10:44:27   
Calogero
Member

Pemberton, Why do you keep trying to troll people on the forums?

Remorse is one of the OLD players and if you didn't notice, she is a BM...

You know how they could fix the continues Jumping to other class to copy the build? Remove class changes. or make it limited by for example 1 time every 3 months or something like that ;)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
12/4/2013 11:58:39   
Ranloth
Banned
quote:

I hate it when people blame players for wrecking balance when in a game the whole point is to do the best thing possible.

It is the devs and the devs alone fault, that they leave the game being obvious, broken and easily exploited.

Yes, let's blame the Devs for listening to players when it comes to certain balance changes. Great idea.

Let me think... who's idea was it to nerf Battery Backup? Assimilation? Altering stat progressions? Buffing defensive builds and nerfing offensive? Buffing old BloodLust because BMs were falling back? Revamping Assimilation overall? Nerfing crits? Altering blocks so they won't be too strong (even 15% damage is better since it's a guaranteed kill on block with 3 HP or less)? Revamping rage (soon-to-be-done)? Nerfing Focus after stat progression was adjusted? Nerfing IA multiple times? Buffing some Robots in the past?

Yes, I'm pretty sure all of these weren't balance suggestions made by players, but Devs take the credit for it fully because they don't listen to us but did what we wanted... What an irony.

Sometimes, if they don't listen, it may be because: 1) players aren't always right, 2) it can't be done just like that (band-aid fix), 3) it's impossible.
AQ Epic  Post #: 12
12/4/2013 19:05:10   
Shajun Ki
Member

Some thoughts on current gameplay...it's boring, bland, repetitive, annoying, etc etc.

I've never bought varium,, I will never buy varium, and yet I find the previous phases IMMENSELY more fun than this phase. When was the last time someone did epic damage? I'm talking 100+. Is that even possible now? The nerfing and buffing and changes to skills
throughout Omega just made duels less and less epic. I don't find the name Epic Duel fit for this game anymore. Facing a build with 100+ hp is almost rare now, how boring is that? Stop decreasing our damage output and give us SOME FREEDOM AND EXCITEMENT!

Post #: 13
12/4/2013 19:08:22   
Dual Thrusters
Member

quote:

90% of players are either BH or TM


Hey, at least this time it isn't just one overused class.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
12/4/2013 20:46:13   
Altador987
Member

curious but what's so why is a longer match bad? i understand balance is still an issue but say this was a perfect world and all 6 classes were perfectly balanced... would long matches be so bad then? what's the point in playing a 3 turn match, how is that even fun? that can't possibly take a lot of strategy and while no the copycats aren't very strategic both the overdone tm and bh builds still require some form of strategy or you lose (maybe not so much for tm's i wouldn't know i've never used that build and i didn't change anything about my bh other than switching poison to multi) the 3-4 turn matches usually didn't require any form of strategy at all... going on to "the new passives" i can't really see how energy moves becoming more popular all around (because while now certain energy skills might affect a win or a loss more than it used to, they were still being used before the update) makes them the new passive... i also don't see how seeing an abundance of a certain class can automatically make the game boring all of a sudden as bounties used to be a rarity and really only appeared in 1v1 and that's been since before the newer 3 classes were even created


in response to some comments

@Pemberton, they have class changes as there is no other way to be a tactical merc, a blood mage, or a cyber hunter otherwise
@Remorse, you cannot blame devs for trying to be creative with a game they created, you just sound flat out ungrateful, as if they can't make mistakes and try new things, yes there is unbalance and yea there are probably a bunch of ways that they could go about solving it but it seems like they want it to go a certain direction and from the look of it seems possible that they could balance all the classes out if they were to continue and not be persuaded by every upset player who doesn't like change or hates losing so much they must complain IMMEDIATELY
@exploding penguin, the only drains that cost 0 mp are specifically the ones that also have a regain which would make it pointless to cost mp to get mp, you wouldn't expect to use 10mp for a max battery backup as that's counter productive
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
12/4/2013 22:04:46   
edwardvulture
Member

More energy flow allows for more strategy, simple as that. BH static grenade need to be nerfed tho.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 16
12/5/2013 0:37:33   
Pemberton
Member
 

 @ ED Divine Darkness
I am a merc ever since beta. Check out my account noobkillah. I don't even have class jumper achievement.
And guess what, I check your account page, well well well, a bounty hunter
Post #: 17
12/5/2013 7:25:54   
Remorse
Member

@Trans and Altador987

The devs do listen to the players and so I was wrong in saying that it is the devs fault alone, I also apologize for that.


However surely the games constant state of being class hoping, variety constricted boring battles (my opinion) has very little to do with players.

They are responsible for releasing the broken cores/robots and skills, that make the game like this, not the players, in fact I'm sure if they asked for players opinions on many of these cores/robots a lot of them would state how broken they are even before they release it, such as when I tried my hardest to prevent the azreal cores being released only to fail and having just as bad impact on balance at the time as I suspected.

This game wasn't always a constant switching of the most effective almost un-counterbale builds/class so obviously something went wrong and clearly not much effort is being done to reverse it, if that is even their intention.

And I don't mean restrict the ability to class hop etc, that is merely a band-aid solution,

What I wish they would do is reduce the need to class hop in the first place by improving varieties effectiveness ( essentially allowing all builds you can come up with to work given your effective execution of the build, similar to how it was in beta) by reducing the effect of the robots/cores and skills that make certain builds to strong by making them to hard to counter and therefore reduce variety.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/5/2013 7:33:09 >
Epic  Post #: 18
12/5/2013 8:31:52   
Ranloth
Banned


 I respect your opinion Remorse, and I can agree on some parts. But late Delta and majority of Omega was mostly player suggestions (balance) so the case of Devs not listening, is no more. ;)

Whether they are doing the right changes (subjective), that's up for us to decide - for some, it may be great change but for others, it's heading in the wrong direction.
AQ Epic  Post #: 19
12/5/2013 9:22:44   
Altador987
Member

i agree with your sentiment Remorse however the game IS their creation and while they can listen to players suggestions and use some it's theirs and no one elses and they may have had plans for it much early on and wish to continue with their "baby" as planned, yea people have stopped playing but it's definitely not due to balance issues as we lost a good chunk of players once varium didn't give ridiculous amount of stats because it then forced those who had crap builds but won simply because of varium to actually try harder and some didn't want to and left, (which is why i never bought varium until they made that change as unfair advantages like that bore me to death)
AQW Epic  Post #: 20
12/5/2013 9:58:00   
Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

Do you think the gameplay has been unnecessarily lengthened due to the switch from passives to actives and an emphasis on turn-wasting energy moves?

In alot duels its like that. As example Static Grenade -> Static Grenade / Battery Backup / Assimilation etc. Its all about energy control now.
In relation to HPs the most energy drain and regen skills are way to powerfull. As example Static Grenade and Battery Backup can drain/regen
73% of full EPs (45/62) with just one move while Static Grenade also does regen 36% of full EPs (22/62) at the same time. 99% of the
characters also have their EPs at the minimum of 62/63 at level 35/36.

_____________________________


v.35.3 (2016-01-23) ~ beam.to/shran
DF Epic  Post #: 21
12/5/2013 10:02:50   
Remorse
Member

^ People have the minimum energy because even with the high power of energy drain/regain moves,

Energy is far to expensive to invest it, it should be 2 per stat point not 1 or 1.25.



If this is the case then people can actually invest in energy and classes with weak abilities to control energy then can make up for it slightly helping balance however to power of static grenade and assim+battery combined really needs to be changed on top if balance is to get better.
Epic  Post #: 22
12/5/2013 23:27:33   
Gen Stryker
Member

I am frustrated as heck; I have tried over 20 different builds as a Tact Merc and all of them lose a majority of the time! Support abuse build is the only one I have somewhat luck with but it is one sided and boring! I took about 6 months off from ED and come back to my Tact Merc being completely garbage. In the past I prided myself on having unique builds that could hold their own against the popular builds; now it feels like I have to follow the crowd or lose constantly I am really considering quitting or waiting to see if the Devs try to fix it; sad cuz ED was my fav game, now I get depressed playing

< Message edited by Gen Stryker -- 12/5/2013 23:30:19 >
Epic  Post #: 23
12/6/2013 3:50:13   
Pemberton
Member
 

 IMO Devs should release balance updates faster. Waiting for 1 month to address glaring balance problems is too long
and causes players to either copy builds and class jump or even worse, rage quit the game.
Post #: 24
12/10/2013 21:29:16   
Snapple
Member

Current Game Play is not Bad, But i still miss the Old Epicduel. Im also agreeing With buffy.
AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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