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RE: TLM UnderPowered

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12/25/2013 23:06:04   
Teserve
Member

@above
Nice to see you again! I think he was saying that comicalbiker is a pretty decent player, and he has also tested other builds. He's not saying that because he loses with a certain build TLM needs a buff.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 26
12/25/2013 23:12:28   
GearzHeadz
Member

I think TLM needs technician. It would replace blood shield.

< Message edited by GearzHeadz -- 12/25/2013 23:28:20 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 27
12/26/2013 3:23:02   
DarkDevil
Member

a class can't have 2 buffs , technician and field commander.
AQ Epic  Post #: 28
12/26/2013 3:31:24   
kittycat
Member

I agree. Blood Shield can be solved by Frenzy or Field Medic. If necessary, Blood Shield should scale with Focus.
AQ MQ  Post #: 29
12/26/2013 13:30:26   
ED Divine Darkness
Member

quote:

Just because you copied a famous player like Comical Biker does not mean you are good, AT ALL.
So you came to conclusion that TacMerc is weak because you copied Comical's build and you can't win?
I don't know what to call this kind of reasoning...


lol...

TLM is at a disadvantage. any fool can figure that out. please, try TLM and you shall see. the only reason why comical has that ratio is cos of platinum's and hatchlings. Two things that are easily OP on ANY str build.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 30
12/30/2013 23:45:56   
Etrigan
Member

This is the list of all TLM skills, what they do, and their average use, AND how I rate them on a scale of 1 - 10. 1 being terrible, 10 being great.

Field medic - heals. Used a lot. 9
Double strike - Hits twice for 15% - 42%. Not used very often. 8
Mineral armor - increased defense by a small percentage. Not used that often. 2
Stun grenade - (RIP OFF OF BH) Does less damage for a stun chance. Used sometimes. 4
Blood resistance - Takes away some health and puts an equal amount taken away into resistance. Used seldom, if at all. 4
Field commander - Increases strength. Used seldom. 7
Battery backup - Restores energy. Used very frequently. 8
Frenzy - Does average damage, steals 30% - 57% of damage dealt for health. Used seldom. 7
Artillery strike - Multi attack, does damage based on support. Used sometimes. 6
Surgical strike - "Ultimate attack" Does high damage based on technology. Used seldom. 8
Atom smasher - Attacks enemy's energy. Drains 50% - 80% of the energy damaged to yours. 8
Toxic grenade - Does 70% damage and inflicts poison, doing 40 - 130 based on the level, but can be negated by field medic. Used often. Before field medic negated it - 8. After - 5.

Rating - 76 / 120. TLM scored a 63% on this exam. So it would have failed it.

Now, to make it better:

Field medic - Can't make better
Double strike - Can increase the damage slightly
Mineral armor - Replace with the armor that increases defense AND resistance, just defense is not good.
Stun grenade - Make the stun chance 1/3rd instead of 30%, some sort of increase so it's not wasted energy 70% of the time.
Blood resistance - Increase the time the resistance is applied. Otherwise it's unfair to use if it's energy used for the resistance.
Field commander - No improvements
Battery backup - Nerf slightly maybe. It has too great of an increase in energy; maybe a health - energy transfer of some sort (FOR ALL CLASSES WITH THIS)
Frenzy - No improvements
Artillery strike - Replace with the energy multi
Surgical strike - Replace with a weapon ultimate
Atom smasher - no improvements
Toxic grenade - Decrease poison damage but increase initial. 90% damage and 20-110 poison (Same applies to the BH's poison)

(That was so it was still constructive criticism and not a rant)

< Message edited by Etrigan -- 12/30/2013 23:46:15 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 31
12/31/2013 0:20:56   
GearzHeadz
Member

What about a pretty decent focus high dex/str build? The dex would help with stun grenade and the str could be spent on double strike and frenzy. Battery would be there of course. Maybe atom smash. Mineral armor and blood shield. And if you get first turn, a field commander.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 32
12/31/2013 1:48:41   
Jekyll
Member

^I've used a high-dex and mild-strength build in both 1v1 and 2v2.

1v1 win rate against BH is around 75-80% (ignoring level differences) and against TM is 55-65% (again, ignoring level differences). Did not check against other classes because there were too few to make good conclusions.

2v2 really depends, but in a fair fight, odds are good.

Main, and biggest drawback is that this build drags battles incredibly long, making many people angry in the process. I've encountered much more negativity when using that build as compared to my current strength build. It takes on average 7-8 minutes for a 1v1 battle with a good TM/BH, making it more viable to get quick wins and losses.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 33
12/31/2013 19:44:48   
Teserve
Member

@Etrigan
Just because some skills are situational does not mean the class is imbalanced.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 34
1/2/2014 14:38:25   
Etrigan
Member

@Teserve - I agree. However, the usefulness of the skills compares badly with the usefulness of other class skills. If you did not understand that (I hardly did), the skills of other classes have more use than TLM's skills.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 35
1/2/2014 14:55:02   
Scyze
Member

I made TLM look OP in Delta and it never got nerfed. A TLM build like this was very hard to beat: https://twitter.com/Syntherax/status/395883225274253312 *I made a better one.*
The problem is the other Classes making it look UP. I think that buffing TLM might not be the best answer; nerfing the stronger Classes will affect all Classes rather than one. If BH and TM get nerfed, that will mean less work to buff up CH, TLM and Merc to make them balanced.

When everything seems fine, I'll be returning to TLM if I'm bored of Merc. The main reason to why de-buff Classes are strong is because of our defences - they are no longer high like in the previous phases. Same with how much offence you, with a tank build, can throw out without buffs or de-buffs.

< Message edited by Scyze -- 1/2/2014 14:58:01 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 36
1/2/2014 15:08:02   
GearzHeadz
Member

BH aren't even really powerful, it's just the way str/sup are working and rage are that are making them seem OP. TM on the other hand, has got such a grip on energy it is hard to contest.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 37
1/2/2014 16:57:44   
Dual Thrusters
Member

@scyze

Buffing classes increases variety. The OP classes will still be able to function as they usually do, but with competition.

Nerfing the OP class doesn't solve anything. The others will still have crap synergy and such.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 38
1/2/2014 18:34:23   
suboto
Member

A simple fix to tlm's is replace field commander (tlms most useless skill) to intimidate that would give us a debuff and help against str builds.
I would say change stun nade to maul but that simply will never happen. With that being said that is all we need. Since tlm's energy destory skill atom smash is the only energy take skill that doesnt return energy ingame other then ch's both tlm and ch's energy take skill should either cost 0 energy or return some % of energy back. id vote on just 0 energy though so normal mercs would have some type of advantage or make the tm's energy take skill lowered on regaining energy
tms are bulti like tlm's now energy wise. and bh's mark skill needs a nerf and maybe their amount of energy they can take but a buff on what the regain on energy.
But to be honest what needs to be done in short terms:
tlm: replace field commander with intimidate and a change on atom smash
ch: change on emp
tm:nerf on 2nd energy based skill
bh:buff on energy regain skill

With all honesty tatical merc's need intimidate badly rather then field commander we need a way to counter str builds currently thats my major weakness against all builds i make. Field commander is just out dated nowa days it was good back in beta/gamma/delta but now were in omega its time for a counter against something.
Everyone will agree the number thing on list to do is give tatical merc intimidate in place of where field commander is please listen from a tatical mercs point of view :/ ive been this class since its release through its good days, bad days, etc.... Before it released i was a normal merc if u can not nerf tms or bh at least do this 1 thing for us
That is all i ask



< Message edited by suboto -- 1/2/2014 18:45:21 >
Epic  Post #: 39
1/2/2014 18:43:14   
GearzHeadz
Member

Atom smash costs so much because it can destroy so much energy, more then any other drainer.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 40
1/2/2014 18:46:10   
suboto
Member

ok i understand but in all honesty field commander getting replaced with initimidate is the only thing needed to be done.
Epic  Post #: 41
1/2/2014 22:06:49   
Dual Thrusters
Member

@gearz

Atom Smash destroys less energy than EMP Grenade.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 42
1/2/2014 22:14:51   
GearzHeadz
Member

I thought it was the best? Or was it the best drain for cost.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 43
1/6/2014 13:57:36   
xxxromanxxx4
Member
 

 a build i use is a max surg one. I originally designed it for jug but it works well for 1v1.

The build is pretty similar to the surg android build people claimed was overpowered.

spam tech and get little or no focus. use 950 energy build. poison grenade is level 7. armor on dex.

1. poison. 2. attack (or heal) 3. attack (or heal) 4. surgical* 5. attack 6.** rage android.

* if the enemy can heal then drain their energy (assuming it wont stop your ss)
**if enemy has used energy drain yet then battery.

this is just the basic strategy. Most of it depends on the situation.

build flaws:

if enemy has high hp then android may not kill.
if enemy is high hp tech mage then they will be able to heal twice due to battery.
if a cyber hunter emps you 1st turn you may struggle
a few others



win % is decent but not amazing however at max level this build may be more effective as you will not face annoying higher levels


IMO the only reason that build works is because it combines IA (powerful robot) SS (best ultimate) poison (deals a lot of damage - 350)
Post #: 44
1/7/2014 11:52:19   
GearzHeadz
Member

What if atom smash dealt 85% damage as well? And give frenzy a 25% chance to crit. Replace field commander with blood commander or smoke. Increase poison grenades cool down from 1 to 2.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 45
1/7/2014 22:53:50   
Jekyll
Member

lol.

I was fighting some level 39 BH. I was on the verge of winning, and he said "TLM are OP". Then, he got a block (with lower dex) and said "looks like they're not."

Never take anyone seriously.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 46
1/7/2014 23:22:00   
GearzHeadz
Member

That logic is fabulous. What did you think of my suggestions for balancing TLM Jekyll? Since you are one. Just above your comment.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 47
1/7/2014 23:23:52   
Rui.
Banned

 

 TLM is sooo under powered... Every class seems to beat it hands down.

they seriously need to make a change to frenzy.. make it usable with sword.. 0 energy unbreakable and 100% damage returned as health.
Grenade changed to a stun skill that uses sword.

Strength buff changed to intimidate or something that breaks the opponent weapon for 3 turns.. just like the destroy Armour core on the new bird bot. So for 3 turns wep damage is changed to 0. or something along that lines numbers are just a example..
Post #: 48
1/7/2014 23:34:30   
GearzHeadz
Member

Nothing you said was fair and would simply overpower this class.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 49
1/7/2014 23:37:11   
Jekyll
Member

@Gearzheadz:

Regarding your suggestions:

1) Atom Smasher

I wouldn't change it. It costs really little EP to use, can drain a fair amount, and the cooldown isn't bad. We should avoid making it like assimilate.

2) Frenzy

Good idea with the crit, making it somewhat of a bunker buster/ plasma cannon/ cheap shot. If this idea doesn't work, then maybe make it usable with a sword instead.

3) Field Commander

Pretty useless skill save for support builds (which get trounced in a few turns). Remove it and give TLM a debuff. Smoke was removed because TLM used to have a passive armour. Now it can be returned without much problem.

4) Poison

It has 2 advantages over BH - cooldown (2 vs 1) and damage (130 vs 120). Nullify one of the advantages and it should be fine.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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