win ratios


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1/18/2014 19:55:35

kosmo
Member

During theese days i have noticed that many players are happy about not showing looses, but the majority of the game disagrees whit not showing win % on lb.

So i was thinking that players should be able to choose if they want to show their ratios, or if they want to hide them to avoid their build to get copied;
what do u guys think about it?

< Message edited by kosmo -- 1/18/2014 19:56:31 >

Epic

Post #: 1

1/18/2014 22:25:20

Greed Redemption
Member

I think it should not be able to show win % on LB.

< Message edited by Greed Redemption -- 1/18/2014 22:26:13 >

Epic

Post #: 2

1/18/2014 22:57:06

Mother1
Member

Showing win percents was one of the main reasons why build copying happened in the first place. People wanted a high win percentage, and the fact that it showed a person with a high win percent made it so people would just copy that person's build if they ran into them.

By doing this we now have no clue on how well the people on the LB are doing. So for all we know they could have a lot of wins and a lousy win percentage.

By doing this, unless you can see everyone of that person's fights you won't know if their build is good or not overall and with this can help stop the build copying.

Epic

Post #: 3

1/18/2014 23:27:42

Dual Thrusters
Member

Well players on the leaderboards only cared about getting the most wins. Who cares if you lose most of your battles, you'll still be #1 if you also have the most wins!

Heck, I even saw someone rocking 3rd place with a 50% win ratio.

_____________________________

AQW

Epic

Post #: 4

1/18/2014 23:30:28

Mother1
Member

@ dual

quite a few of the players that I actually won against that were on the LB's with high win ratio's would get really upset if I end up beating them. I won't say names but quite a few of them threw fits.

Epic

Post #: 5

1/19/2014 0:17:30

Dual Thrusters
Member

@mother

Well of course, anyone would be upset if they had the illusion of being invincible and impossibly lost a match. They don't need to see their win ratio, they just need to experience it!

AQW

Epic

Post #: 6

1/19/2014 0:51:34

Jekyll
Member

Sometimes players can't accept the simple fact that another person bested them in battle. Over-confidence? Maybe. Arrogance? Maybe. Poorer strategy and skill? Definitely.

I've met plenty of people who boast 90%+ daily records who become raging kittens when they lose a battle. Just ignore them, or even laugh it off.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 7

1/19/2014 2:35:51

DarkDevil
Member

before we say people are mad that they can't show your loses , we must ask ourselves why do they want to show their loses ?

win/lose ratio is either one of the 2 for anyone.
percentage of exploiting broken things for wins.
percentage of fighting weaker players.

therefore showing them will be useless.

also let's take from another way , i got a 90% win ratio (i don't , i am just throwing an example) so i show mine.
everyone looks and feel ashamed so they switches theirs.
a one with 10% win ratio passes by feeling bigger ashamed and standing confused of whether or not as the sign of him hiding it only brings negative attention from others.

so we will go back to the start point of "exploit stuff to have a better win ratio to brag about it"
wins only show experience but win ratio only causes bragging in a competetive game which is morally wrong and discourages people.

we don't have to deal in myths saying whoever wants them showed can and whoever don't won't , because speaking of reality everyone will.

< Message edited by DarkDevil -- 1/19/2014 2:44:13 >

Epic

Post #: 8

1/20/2014 19:59:18

Exploding Penguin
Moderator

quote:

Poorer strategy and skill? Definitely.

I think you forgot about the rare happenstance of luck. I used to rage a lot when I lost to blocks and crits back in Gamma, but I've grown out of that stage at this point.

I never thought I'd say this but win ratios/losses shouldn't show up at all. It stops people from making negative comments about others with poor ratios, helps to work against build copying, and makes people fret less over losing.

Epic

Post #: 9

1/20/2014 23:22:22

Pemberton
Member

Removing losses and win % is just a way to hide the TERRIBLE BALANCE in the game and the LACK OF QUICK AND EFFECTIVE BALANCE PATCHES.
Do the Devs really think this will bring back players in this game?

Post #: 10

1/21/2014 17:00:28

lionblades
Member

A PvP game not showing losses. What a GREAT idea...NOT. This was basically the only reason that I enjoy playing right now and bought small increments of varium during earlier phases. All the other PvP games I play never do this. One PvP game (has more WAY players than ED) has the option to show win loss ratio and kills/deaths. It didn't matter if the other person thought you were noob by hiding stats. You can show them wrong by beating him/her in a battle. Another game made people pay a small fee to hide stats (or pay alot of free in game currency), they rewarded good PvPers. And the game balance was near perfect since the whole dev team/chosen player balance testers always tested gear fully before a release. Also, unlike ED the separate gear had different stats. You had to farm for the best gear etc. This discourages build copying since the gear was hard to get. ED encourages build copying by making all item stats the same (anyone can change to max str,dex, etc) because of Omega.

New NPC idea was great but now that the Devs removed the losses, ED is no longer a competitive game--rather its how LONG you play. A person with 10 wins and 100 losses will be the same as the person with 10 wins 0 losses.
I now no longer have any huge incentive to play.

AQW	Post #: 11

1/30/2014 4:41:59

Noobatron x3000
Member

^ Un escapable truth is the games to broken to show losses or even give the option to show losses . Because of how broken the game is it has attracted the younger player base because not many adults will stand for the state of the game. Kids are bad tempered and cruel making showing losses a way to attack one another, whether the losses be through actually using a fun none flavour of the week build , being unlucky, Or just general broken mechanics shafting you.

They have to hide losses to avoid exposing the dreadful state the game is in . The server number is already damaging enough. As these problems have been here through the phases merely shuffled around to what was broken /what wasnt broken, The devs either don't want to fix balance or dont know how to.

Removing losses in the hope that some would still play in the heavily broken 1v1,2v2.juggernaut modes.

And introducing npcs for the people who even removing losses wasnt enough to keep them playing with the state of the game.

Was the only way for them to hold onto what few players they have remaining.

Post #: 12

1/30/2014 5:11:39

Ranloth
Banned

quote:

They have to hide losses to avoid exposing the dreadful state the game is in

Totally. I remember this being a player suggestion, few weeks/months ago. Was suggested before, and by that, I mean in Gamma/Delta which some of you preach to be the best phase ever - and I've accidentally dug up a thread from Delta (dated for May 2011) saying how much the game sucks and how flawed it is + heavy P2P era. Some of the people wanting Delta back, were the people who posted back then saying Delta is horrid. <.<

quote:

The devs either don't want to fix balance or dont know how to

Players seem to confuse their vision of the game with Devs' vision. What you think is best, is what YOU think. You're also overexaggerating what 2 Coders can do, used to be 1 (Titan only) before Rabble has joined the Team. Weekly releases, normal content, and there's not enough time to fit everything in. They don't work whole week purely on developing ED. They are their own department in AE, and have to deal with stuff like legislation, paperwork, and everything that a normal business would.

quote:

Removing losses in the hope that some would still play in the heavily broken 1v1,2v2.juggernaut modes

Link back to first paragraph. It wasn't "in hope" but a psychological change for many players. Of course, I'm not asking you to understand their point of view, but that doesn't mean your opinion can be taken as a fact, when it's purely ridden with a biased statement of yours. The numbers are the same, in terms of players, but the change is psychological. Nothing was done "in hope" of ED getting better.

quote:

And introducing npcs for the people who even removing losses wasnt enough to keep them playing with the state of the game.

"We want NPCs back!" *NPCs are back* "Lol, ED Team uses NPCs to improve their game, what a joke!"
Time to make up your mind. They were removed for a reason, and then brought back. Back in Beta/Gamma/Delta, no one complained about NPCs being there and being helpful for players who are sick of PvP. Now, magically, it's to keep ED even worth playing. Link back to second paragraph.

quote:

Was the only way for them to hold onto what few players they have remaining.

Partially true, but not really. Link to third and fourth paragraph.

Listen to players, and get blamed for it. Carry out players' suggestion, and it's bad because they use it as an excuse to keep ED running. Devs never listen to players? Lots of player suggestions were introduced in Omega, and they've ruined the balance in their own way - too much listening to the players, despite the fact everyone wanted oh so much for the Devs to listen to us? And blaming them for your own suggestions? This makes perfect sense. Devs don't carry out your suggestion? Blatantly ignoring us as a whole, because we are always right - link to players' and Devs' vision of the game.

Epic

Post #: 13

1/30/2014 5:30:14

Noobatron x3000
Member

Not blaming them for anything the choices were wise . I'm simply stating why they were made in my opinion.

The server number is unavoidable even at peak on a weekend it struggles to cap above 800.

Most of the week your struggling to get past 600 with alot of the day struggling to break 300.

The game is in trouble its broken i'm simply stating i think that the changes were made to gloss over the broken factors. Not that i disagree i wated npcs . I think hiding losses was wise since the games got more and more broken since omega. Variu, advanatage broke the game in other phases enough to hide all the other problems. Now everythings out in the open

Post #: 14

1/31/2014 1:54:14

Pemberton
Member

Yes the past updates and game changes were very bad. It made the game worse imo.

Post #: 15

1/31/2014 2:22:36

Scyze
Member

The game's broken? Have you noticed that a server is full once or twice a week (when I check)?

AQW

Epic

Post #: 16

1/31/2014 2:31:07

Mother1
Member

@ noobatron

The game believe it or not is actually targeted towards kids. remember all AE games are aimed at kids not adults but kids.

Epic	Post #: 17

1/31/2014 15:59:19

Noobatron x3000
Member

^ obviously the entire direction the game has gone tells you its aimed at kids. The staff are missing a opportunity if they actually balanced the game added more fairness so it wasn't so repellent to older players the community would be less toxic in game, and they'd make more money, kids spend money but they cant compete with the funds a adult can obtain. In the games current state only a child could play this game with any longevity.

Post #: 18

1/31/2014 16:08:25

Ranloth
Banned

That's not the Staff's faul, Noobatron, because AE is targeted towards kids - not ED alone. Catering mainly for older audience can be done, if they make a new game - Epic Inventions was purchased by AE and they own ED, so the Devs cannot really change this. They can try making it a bit more strategical, but only until a point.

Epic

Post #: 19

2/2/2014 0:43:39

rayniedays56
Member

Noobatron. Have you ever looked at Alpha phase pictures (pre AE) and glanced at Gamma/Delta Phase (AE influenced)?

There ya go. Look those up and tell me the staff were aiming at kids...

AKA /giggity

AQW

Epic

Post #: 20

2/2/2014 0:47:09

Noobatron x3000
Member

^Has gone not was going. In beta I didn't feel like I was playing a kiddies game may have just been me wasn't here in alpha. I remember the merge a lot of people said it was a bad idea . Innitially I was indifferent by gamma I was happy. Now? I'd never play another AE game if they held a gun to my head.

Post #: 21

2/2/2014 1:09:10

Mother1
Member

@ Noobatron

Back then before the merge the staff might have been aiming the game towards teens and adults (Since beta from what I was told was a lot more complex due to lack of content and less skill countering moves outside of skills) however after the merge that was when all the new content started coming in such as the Assault bot and many other cores that would counter many of the basic mechanics and destroy complexes to make more simple plans work.

Which is what most kids like something that is simple and easy to get and win at.

Epic	Post #: 22

2/2/2014 2:31:30

Noobatron x3000
Member

increasing all the numbers 10 fold was a mistake if you ask me . Makes the rng a lot higher making calculating the damage your going to do and your next move a lot more risky since you could potentially kill some1 but if you hit at the bottom of your rng you wont this wasn't a issue when numbers where smaller. I feel this alone damaged the intelligence factor to the game . Yes ik work out your lowest damage don't attack if u could fail in killing play defensive, but what if u had killed and not attacking lost you the game ? More ways luck has dominated the game.

Post #: 23

2/2/2014 4:13:15

Mother1
Member

What is really funny to me is that I ran into a few real cocky strength TM's with High health in 1 vs 1 talking about I would be an easy win due to my build, but the moment one of their attacks got blocked (Bludgeon) the were screaming about "Luck needs to be removed because you shouldn't have blocked." Which in turn caused them to lose against me.

Heck the first strength TM if faced was so ticked that he lost that when I fought him a second time and we won we went on to insult me calling me a noob loser for not using the same build he was using and how my build was garbage.

Long story short we got a good deal of sore losers in game as well as bad winners.

Epic	Post #: 24

2/2/2014 6:11:32

Pemberton
Member

Agree with you nobotron, before i used to calculate the numbers but now it's too much of a hassle, so you just go full offensive and hope for the luck.

Post #: 25

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