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RE: Strength changes

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6/16/2015 12:09:06   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

quote:

Tech abuse would work if there was less damage given from Focus (to Bots), and more coming from Tech. It should also encourage build variety because Focus would have less effect on Bots, thus the need to go for even stats (especially at lower level) would be lesser. That's speaking across the board; Tech abuse works for some classes.

This was actually brought up by me and Exploding Penguin (Creds for the idea to penguin)

Here's a quote from Exploding Penguin:
quote:

I think they should either make the bonus damage from focus barely affect bots, or just remove it entirely. Then fix strength up a bit (NOT revert it, do something more creative like come up with more skills that scale non-percentage-wise with strength and up the damage scaling a bit), and increase support. This makes it so that robots apply to tech builds the same way that guns apply to dex builds, but buffs support and strength to keep them relevant so that tank builds aren't the dominant class.


And here was my suggestion in response (feel free to ignore the numbers I put it)
quote:

Robot
Damage: 320-350(idk, somewhere in that range)
Scales with: Technology
Focus: +10 per focus level
Post #: 26
6/16/2015 19:09:12   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Seriously...the game wasn't bad early omega. At least we were diverse. But sure, a game full of focus builds and a op robot is cool
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 27
6/16/2015 19:23:51   
Lord Machaar
Member

The game now has various builds.
After underdog mode and strenght fix:
- Dex builds for 4 different classes: CH - TM - BH - BM.
- Support builds for 2 different classes: TLMs - Merc.
- 5 Focus builds for all classes (6).
- Strenght CHs with max massacre and high HP.
- High HP strenght builds (TMs - TLMs).
Result: All classes playable.

Before UM and strenght fix:
- Strenght builds. (TLMs - BHs - BMs).
Result: Some classes remained the underdog.

With a tweak here and there strenght builds will be good again to balance the game even more.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/16/2015 19:26:11 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 28
6/16/2015 19:37:00   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 ....so stat spam builds are diversity...? Great. 96 more ranks and I'm out of this game, should take about 3 months. newer and newer players are killing diversity.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 29
6/16/2015 19:52:02   
Lord Machaar
Member

^ Strenght builds weren't spaming strenght?
You just said 5 focus builds are ruling the game. Now you just admitted the existence of another build that you haven't mentioned in your first reply.
Having 15 different builds (4 + 2 + 6 + 1 + 2 check reply above) is better than having one ruling the game.

I prefer 10 new players join and enjoy the game rather than satisfying one player just because he started the game before them and had 2 years advantage to rank up.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/16/2015 19:59:52 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 30
6/16/2015 20:37:17   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 15 different builds sounds good to you? Must be new I guess. Man return str to normal or at least utilize support more and make some skills scale with support. Making everything scale with dex and tech is just encouraging major defensive builds. Not fun.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 31
6/16/2015 20:48:52   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

15 different builds sounds good to you? Must be new I guess.


I think I'm just going to stop right here, because if you read your sentence again you will understand that what you've just said totally makes no sense, unless ofcourse, variety to you is having one build ruling the game.
MQ Epic  Post #: 32
6/16/2015 20:57:20   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

Instead of going back and forth about the builds we have currently, do either of you have any suggestions on the skills in the OP?
Or that have been mentioned in later post, or any skills you think need to be looked at?
Post #: 33
6/16/2015 20:59:19   
Mother1
Member

TBK

Neither was losing to strike builds that can score 200-300 damage every turn thanks to 600+ damage primaries for most. You might have enjoyed it but many others found it frustrating because they were locked either into being a strength build, or a tank so they could compete.

If you weren't one or the other, and you had no ace in the whole you were basically a strength BM TLM punching bag.
Epic  Post #: 34
6/16/2015 21:20:29   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 No you guys are just complainers, thats basically it and the majority of this games problems can be solved if you guys just chill out and come up with new builds instead of begging for nerfs all the time. Prime example: Legendary Titan
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 35
6/16/2015 21:37:27   
Lord Machaar
Member

You've got 100 ranks and you haven't defeat him yet, why are you even talking about something you know nothing of?
MQ Epic  Post #: 36
6/16/2015 22:23:50   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 I play this game to win. Im not here for dress up or to fight npcs. I play to win. Stars are useless. they don't help me win so ii don't care about them. it was a fun suggestion that I thought NPCers would like.
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 37
6/16/2015 23:28:42   
Ranloth
Banned


 The point of this thread is to buff Strength indirectly, increasing variety and not overpowering it again - you clearly haven't read the proposed suggestions carefully, considering all of them either compliment Strength indirectly, or directly (depending on the direction).

If you have any other balance issues to discuss (such as build diversity, Focus Focus, etc) do create your own thread for them - I want feedback on this specifically, and not have it derailed to a whole lot of other issues. And since you keep repeating it - no, Strength won't go back to how it was. It was in the first post, too.
AQ Epic  Post #: 38
6/16/2015 23:35:04   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

@Ranloth
When will you talk to the team about these possible changes? If they are to be implemented would it be possible for any of them to happen this week?

Also back on fireball, if we keep it based on strength with an EP burn for now, do you have any ideas on if it will receive an Energy Cost Buff/Nerf?
Post #: 39
6/17/2015 2:09:59   
shadow.bane
Member

@TBK last time i checked it was you the one who asked to implant hardcore npcs mode in game ... correct me if am wrong ? and u couldn't even kill it ?
AQW Epic  Post #: 40
6/17/2015 5:31:50   
Rogue Ninja
Member

quote:

What Rogue Ninja means by x% Primary damage to HP is: say 50% of 500 Primary damage, means you'd deal 250 damage to HP directly; no defenses would be applied.


@ Ranolth Couldn't said it any better, thanks for clearing that up!

quote:

I'm not too familiar with them cores, so I had no idea what he meant. But that sounds like a GREAT idea Rogue Ninja.
This would make the skill really useful against tanks, while probably not against offensive builds. I love situational skills.
Maybe make the % scale with support or dex to help make it more useful for non-strength bounties?


@ AQWorldsFarmer I appreciate that you like my idea. It was intended to be against tank builds. Either scale it with strength or dexterity since I believe it makes sense with the attack animation.
AQW Epic  Post #: 41
6/17/2015 8:15:48   
The berserker killer
Member

 

 Ive only fought legendary titan 4 times as a bloodmage so no, I didn't beat him. I dont just suggest things for myself, I do it for everyone. I suggested an armor for Grand Emperors/ Legendary rankers but I'm not either of those. I play to win, not for a star or cosmetic that wont help me kill my opponent in anyway. Its simple, PVP, not dress up.


On topic: I'd really like to see all skills that depend on str get a slight buff in percentage and 10 decreased energy points
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 42
6/17/2015 11:57:48   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

quote:

Ive only fought legendary titan 4 times as a bloodmage so no, I didn't beat him. I dont just suggest things for myself, I do it for everyone. I suggested an armor for Grand Emperors/ Legendary rankers but I'm not either of those. I play to win, not for a star or cosmetic that wont help me kill my opponent in anyway. Its simple, PVP, not dress up.

Can you people please take your argument elsewhere? Send your argument in PM so we can keep this thread clean and easily readable.

quote:

@ AQWorldsFarmer I appreciate that you like my idea. It was intended to be against tank builds. Either scale it with strength or dexterity since I believe it makes sense with the attack animation.

I'd think dexterity would help out more. It will still be primarily for strength builds but f5 and other hybrid builds can still use it.
Edit: Along with this direct damage, would it receive some sort of small special? Such as reduces both you and your opponents rage by 25%.

< Message edited by AQWorldsFarmer -- 6/17/2015 12:00:22 >
Post #: 43
6/17/2015 17:18:44   
Rogue Ninja
Member

quote:

I'd think dexterity would help out more. It will still be primarily for strength builds but f5 and other hybrid builds can still use it.
Edit: Along with this direct damage, would it receive some sort of small special? Such as reduces both you and your opponents rage by 25%.


@ AQWorldsFarmer 30% Critical Chance? 20% Rage Gain? 25% Stun chance? That's all I could think of.. For now
AQW Epic  Post #: 44
6/17/2015 17:28:55   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

quote:

@ AQWorldsFarmer 30% Critical Chance? 20% Rage Gain? 25% Stun chance? That's all I could think of.. For now

Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't crit ignore a portion of defense? Which would make it useless with massacre if it already ignored 100%.
Usually, by the time you use massacre you're already gonna have a rage set up. I do like a stun chance though, that would be interesting.
Post #: 45
6/17/2015 17:43:13   
Rogue Ninja
Member

quote:

Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't crit ignore a portion of defense? Which would make it useless with massacre if it already ignored 100%.
Usually, by the time you use massacre you're already gonna have a rage set up. I do like a stun chance though, that would be interesting.


@ AQWorldsFarmer Yes, you're correct. It does ignore a portion of defense. You got a point there though, it does ignore the defense/resistance with the skill I suggested. I guess it would be pretty much the same as adrenaline, but a weaker version. The stun chance is probably the best special effect for now. I need to think more ideas soon.
AQW Epic  Post #: 46
6/17/2015 18:15:29   
AQWorldsFarmer
Member

Hmm..deals 10% extra damage over the next 3 rounds-cured by medic?
I don't see how this is overpowering it-since most people will heal after it anyways.
Post #: 47
6/17/2015 19:09:12   
Rogue Ninja
Member

@AQWorldsFarmer

How about giving it 15% primary damage for 2 rounds? I'm also thinking of a 15% chance of poison, but that doesn't make sense with the skill. Time to think more ideas.
AQW Epic  Post #: 48
6/17/2015 19:12:17   
Dual Thrusters
Member

Drains EP based on damage dealt?
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 49
6/17/2015 19:13:53   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

Massacre;
Either uses the same concept as Berzerker, Bludgeon and Double Strike or giving it a fixed lifesteal of 30% like other Ultimates.
Essentially, it's either sticking to the pure damage concept or bringing it closer to other Ultimates (by giving it an effect).


Fixing a 30% lifesteal is better, this skill is shared by 2 classes, both classes have different access to energy, CHs can easily use lvl max massacre while BHs can't, therefore following the concept of berzerker/bludgeon/double strike will "overnerf" this skill when it is used at level 10.

As for atom smasher,
Just by looking at the place of this skill in the skill tree, you would probably never feel alone again, this skill is the only draining skill that requires a special weapon to be used, on top of that, it is badly nerfed, it is a bad version of EMP, EMP that doesn't require a special weapon to be used.
I don't know if by doing this, you are trying to make TLMs use their clubs again, but let me tell you something, I would probably never use this skill if it remains like this, for A- requires a club, B- Nerfed so bad and C- You have to waste one skill point on multi (in case you aren't using support build).
And for god sake can you fix the descrition of the skill so it doesn't say conversion, it isn't conversion. Unless if you mean concersing the enemy's energy into void.
The skill is already doing bad, I think by removing the weapon requirement, making it blockable again, and replacing stun grenade with maul would probably give a good reason for strenght TLMs to use their clubs again.

For other tweaks:
I like the concept, numbers will be fixed by testing, it is totally clear that the fix targets skills which is better, as for example, if you are buffing strike or even strenght, you will be targeting a bigger audience of builds which isn't always healthy. Targeting skills will be more specific to avoid any balance troubles.
Berzerker, Bludgeon and Double Strike; Double strike should be buffed more because it requires a club to be used.
Atom Smasher + Static Smasher; Atom smasher is still isn't a good incentive for TLMs to use strenght builds. Actually it isn't used by any build anyways.
Fireball; Sounds like idea, but having 3 skills improve with dex (Fireball - Overload - Plasma rain) is kinda humm... why not making improve with technology to go on par with plasma canon?

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 6/17/2015 19:29:53 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 50
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