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11/18/2015 18:04:49   
Caststarter
Member

Well I have some other points to give. If the game is not released yet, where you say it should have been released by now, I am pretty sure they are not rushing things at all and want to finish and polish the game. Look at the New Zelda game on the Wii U coming up. They post-poned and the fanbase did not mind as a whole. For they understood that it was to make sure the game was playable and fantastic. This is no different.

Battlegems and Bladehaven were never meant to have updates. They were one-off titles. Does not stop them from being incredibly different. I see no different here for AQ3D.

I actually dealt with HTML before. I am afraid to say but even with basic websites, if you make a decision and implemented it into the code already, it is difficult to go and change it back. Why? You would have to remove a series of different functions that branch out to other commands, where it comes to this can be a long series of commands where you would have to dismantle the source of the problem, along with the branches it made, and place them all back together. Does not sound easy when it is already implemented like it is in AQ3D, now does it?

And yes, I do understand that there is a nuance difference between the two words. Yet an update requires a change. Update is more specific where you change something to make it abide to modern standards. Sorry, but that chance to change everything has already pasted. Like David said, it is basically getting rid of months of work. Not exactly a good way to manage resources and time, now is it? If you need an update, you would have to do add another branch of commands. Which can happen at any point of development.

Those are not 3D mechanics. A free-range camera is a 3D mechanic and not just an aesthetic. Like I said before, a camera is an actual mechanic where if you goof-up on, be it stupid to control or just having a bad viewing range, it is going to have a tremendous impact on the final product. So no, not an aesthetic. I would also like to speak of a misunderstanding people seem to have with things they expect to be in a 3D environment as if they are 3D mechanics. Sorry, but that assessment is not correct. You can swim in a 2D game. You can have interactive obstacles in a 2D game. Mounts that can fly can be in 2D games. Basically, the only mechanics unique to 3D environments is a free-range camera, an open-field in all three dimensions, and that is it. 3D instead expands other things, when needed. Many of these incredibly simplistic things though, like a camera, is taken for granted so much, that most people do not even think of it. Want to know a game that screwed up a camera incredibly badly? Look at Bubsy 3D. It is atrocious and the camera only adds to the plethora of problems the game has. I see no problems of this in AQ3D though. So yes, AQ3D is actually using all of the "3D" mechanics.

Is AQ3D going to be grindy? Who knows. That is up in the air. But fast-travel is just a convenient thing where if the person wants to use it, they should get to use it. They still have the choice not to use it, even if they are short on time. Yet if they are short on time or impatient even, they can teleport and do whatever they want. Perfect reason to keep automated/fast-travel to me. Again, it is harmless.

I think I should draw an analogy in regards to the amount of buttons on a controller to that of the number of skills one can do. Back then, the original NES controller had 4 buttons and a D-pad. That was it. Of course, this was long ago where people had different expectations back then. Let us move to the SNES. It had 8 buttons and a D-pad. Natural progression. Then came the N64. 9 Buttons, a D-pad, and a C-stick. Only one button and the C-stick simply allowed more freedom to move. Nothing revolutionary. If anything, the only complaint would be that the C-stick was in an awkward spot. Then came the Gamecube. It had eight buttons(A REDUCTION!), a d-pad, a C-stick that was for more specific purposes outside of just moving, and a C-stick that was meant simply for general movement. A small update. Then the Wii came. Now this is where I find the idea that less is bad. Consider this. The Wii mote, in its original form, had 7 buttons and a D-pad. What did it compensate for? Motion controllers. I understand that many have an inherent dislike for them but that is only because, as I noted earlier in this thread, developers jumped at it blindly. There are plenty of well-designed games that uses motion-controls. Just doing less buttons, Nintendo was able to do more. And normally, in video games they do not combine button usage where normally video games relegated each button to a specific task. In AQ3D, the fact that skills can have more than one use is telling. If each skill had a second use, they would act as four different buttons for a grand total of 8 skills or in the analogy, eight buttons. That is the amount of buttons that the Gamecube had. The way you move might as well behave as the C-stick here too. And the way you move the camera might as well be the other C-stick. All you are missing is a D-pad analogy and yet the D-pad is one of the least used of any control scheme, (In Smash Bros, it is the way you do taunts.) without it behaving just like the C-stick used to move... but with less freedom. If people really want something to help give some flavor, what AE can do is take the concept of what Bladehaven did and add the ability to swipe with your finger or mouse pointer in order to do another action. It is early enough to be implemented with good enough care and I think this will satisfy many.

In which case... the lesser amount of skills could easily be used to help simplify things and yet compensate with the lesser amount of buttons to help expand other options as well as be able to do creative approaches.
DF  Post #: 226
11/18/2015 20:44:43   
Rezilia
Member

@David

quote:

Uh, that wasn't my point. I know math is the "purest" subject, but exactly because it IS pure it belongs in the realm of theory. Mathematics applied to real life is physics.


We'll just have to agree to disagree. :/

Also, there's a difference between applied and applied to real life. An applied subject is a subject that uses its concepts to influence the real world, not a subject that dictates the truth of the real world. Applied Physics uses formulae from physics and mathematics in order to observe and manipulate reality, not to prove or disprove reality; because mathematics is the base objective standard, mathematics is required in order for physics to be applied.

But this is going off-topic. :P

quote:

Also, as I said, at this point there's no chance the game won't be in 3D or in Unity.


2.5D sidescroll is still 100% 3D. See what LyRein said about aesthetics. In this case, 2.5D is aesthetic and the game is still fully 3D in its mechanics.

While it's certainly unfortunate that the game will remain in Unity, I hope that they'll consider using HTML5 for future Omni projects.

quote:

The dev team right now is working on making the game work its basic functions (walk, battle, quests, rewards, etc.). More complex and interesting things will come in the future.


While AQ3D might be different in this regard, most Alphas in games have every single gameplay function down except for small things added way down the line. The other AE games adhered to this.



@LyRein

quote:

I dunno but I feel like they want to release this game TOO soon.


I completely agree. AQ3D seems way too rushed. I understand they're struggling because AQ3D is the successor of L.O.L. which they started loooong ago, but quality is simply more important than time.

quote:

To be fair ED was not originally an AE game IIRC, the devs were brought into AE.
Battlegems has had little to no updates.
Bladehaven felt like a one-shot.


Totally agree here. I actually played ED before AE got it... Let's just say that it became unplayable once AE became its owner.

I paid for Founder in BG. Suffice to say, it was also rushed.

BH is not only a one-shot, it's a P2W one-shot.

quote:

fun fact, there's a difference between update and change! alpha is the only chance they will change any mechanics


This is exactly what I'm getting at.

Everyone's dissing me about judging the game based on Alpha, but normally Alpha is a pure example of a game's content for atleast the next year.

quote:

I hope you know the difference between mechanics and aesthetics.

3D offers a new view point. That's aesthetic.
3D offers interactive obstacles, swimming, mounts that can fly, open-world features, etc. That's mechanics.
AE is only using aesthetics.

No point in 3D if it's just for viewing.

Gameplay > graphics majority of gamers would agree.


This. 100% this.

If not for this, I wouldn't be talking about 2.5D.

While Unity can certainly create 3D mechanics, HTML5 is just better at making sure those mechanics work for players.

If AE wants 3D experience, it just needs to put in more mechanics. Unity, fully 3D, whatever...they still need to insert a ridiculous number of mechanics.

quote:

Still doesn't give me an explanation as to why they CHOSE 4 skills combat system with no variety or unique feature to make it interesting. You'll probably have to buy classes and equip them separately to use certain skills.

Making one skill have more than one use is not a bad idea.
But using this type of system with limited (very limited) amount of skills is.

Because AE's fanbase will get bored of using one class over and over they'll beg for another one that basically serves the same purpose but looks different and is slightly more overkill.


Exactly. This is why I only like DF Book 1. Most of DF Book 1's classes were all unique, served unique functions, had tons of different attacks that served unique purposes, and all had a place in the game's lore which means that they were designed for defeating specific enemies. Even Pirates and Ninjas had attacks designed to specifically counter one another.

Then P2W classes came out, AQW implemented the 4-skill system but with every class's skills doing the same thing, etc etc.

It went from originality and unique combat mechanics to copy-and-paste laziness.



@Cast

quote:

Look at the New Zelda game on the Wii U coming up. They post-poned and the fanbase did not mind as a whole. For they understood that it was to make sure the game was playable and fantastic. This is no different.


What's with you and the Zelda franchise?

And it actually is different since AQ3D is already going full-steam ahead into OBT. OBT is the same thing as Full Release, just referring to the year or so period after initial testing.

quote:

Battlegems and Bladehaven were never meant to have updates. They were one-off titles.


Bladehaven was a fun side-project. It ended up being released as a one-shot, yes.

BG was not meant to be a one-shot. Its updates would be based on its revenue, which it did not get enough of.

quote:

I actually dealt with HTML before.


HTML5 is very, very different from HTML.

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-key-differences-between-HTML-and-HTML5-Which-is-better

And that's just for designing sites and similar things. HTML5 games use a different system entirely.

Of course, that didn't stop Rhubarb from making a site with HTML5 :)

quote:

Update is more specific where you change something to make it abide to modern standards. Sorry, but that chance to change everything has already pasted. Like David said, it is basically getting rid of months of work. Not exactly a good way to manage resources and time, now is it? If you need an update, you would have to do add another branch of commands. Which can happen at any point of development.


You're failing to see Ly's point.

AQ3D already has things within it that can be changed without implementing completely new systems or replacing old ones. Doing so is changing the game rather than updating it.

quote:

Those are not 3D mechanics. A free-range camera is a 3D mechanic and not just an aesthetic. Like I said before, a camera is an actual mechanic where if you goof-up on, be it stupid to control or just having a bad viewing range, it is going to have a tremendous impact on the final product. So no, not an aesthetic. I would also like to speak of a misunderstanding people seem to have with things they expect to be in a 3D environment as if they are 3D mechanics. Sorry, but that assessment is not correct. You can swim in a 2D game. You can have interactive obstacles in a 2D game. Mounts that can fly can be in 2D games. Basically, the only mechanics unique to 3D environments is a free-range camera, an open-field in all three dimensions, and that is it. 3D instead expands other things, when needed.


Aesthetics refers to how a game looks.

Mechanics refers to how a game works.

We never said that the camera was an aesthetic. We said that AE is only using 3D FOR aesthetics rather than mechanics.

You can swim, fly, whatever in a 2D game, yes. But you're ignoring how much object placement, movement, and the z-axis influence these elements. The 3D variants of these mechanics work completely differently than their 2D versions because of those things.

A 3D environment requires basic 3D mechanics, but that's it - basic, not full, 3D mechanics. AQ3D only uses those basic mechanics; they are not truly utilizing 3D.

quote:

Is AQ3D going to be grindy? Who knows. That is up in the air.


No, it isn't. Go play Robina's quests and fight any mob at your character's level.

quote:

Again, it is harmless.


That's not the point. If the game is meant to have proper exploration elements, the /join feature will nullify them unless those elements are based completely on agility and/or parkour that influence a set area.

quote:

If people really want something to help give some flavor, what AE can do is take the concept of what Bladehaven did and add the ability to swipe with your finger or mouse pointer in order to do another action. It is early enough to be implemented with good enough care and I think this will satisfy many.


Okay, first of all... Less buttons worked because, in games back then, each button had multiple functions. Those games had combos, double jump, wall-jumping, parrying, hold to charge, slamming down onto the ground, etc. Each skill in AQ3D has only one function, so the 4-skill system only creates blandness.

And tbh, the combo system requires less work to make than the swiping system does. Another reason why AQ3D is solely aesthetic is that it barely uses any touch mechanics; plus, you'd have to make the mouse able to swipe and curve just like touching a touchscreen, which is even more work.

quote:

the lesser amount of skills could easily be used to help simplify things and yet compensate with the lesser amount of buttons to help expand other options as well as be able to do creative approaches


Exactly, if they're going to make a combo system, which AQ3D isn't designed to handle.

And if it was designed to handle the combo system, it would only make my 2.5D sidescroller concept more valid.
DF AQW  Post #: 227
11/19/2015 2:02:06   
Caststarter
Member

Could you perhaps concoct a list of games whose alphas have every single gameplay function down? For I am pretty sure that is not the case, especially in regards to game's that do not even show their alphas to the public. Actually, if you look at videos that show behind the scene's looks in development like the videos about Sly Cooper's development, you would see that it was always more about the core mechanics, not any of the gameplay shifts. Not to mention that models were much more primitive. AQ3D's alpha is doing core mechanics, something nice to look at, and actually let you play the alpha. Most companies do not do that.

And yet, how is the game rushed when it was just mentioned that the game would have been released by now if it were not due to events happening that prolong the development cycle? If anything, all it proves that the AE staff is actually taking their time.

The reason why we are trying to give feedback based on your thoughts on Alpha is because for one, it IS Alpha and two, it is all about misconceptions people seem to have in regards what constitutes as a 3D mechanic. We are not trying to say what you are saying that doing them in 3D is different is wrong. But we are saying that they are not 3D mechanics. 3D mechanics is a free-range camera and an open-field that have to comply with a border on the ground. Also, in "2.5D", what you are doing is using the list of methods you would do for a 2D game. They are fundamentally the same. Including your desire to "parkour" where I wish to ask you where you would want to have it even in. Is it even going to control well? I want you to think on the latter for five seconds and come up with a method where it is a core mechanic in a 3D environment that is mainly open fields where it controls well. Needless to say, I predict that the answer is not obvious.

Also, DF had an entire slew of class revamps. At least you could update those since their branches at least abides to the outer layer. In any case. After Ash's revamps, I can safely say that DF has the best balance in all of the AE games. Yet each class also had a token skill. A spam skill. A crit skill. A stun. And a shield. Other than that, it was what can be done. However, I would like to highlight Paladin in DF for a few moments. Even on release, it was not great. When half of your skills are based on luck that is really low and you can not manipulate, needless to say it is not going to be great in the long run no matter what. Ninja and Pirate even then still had skills that were just plain... there. Crackers is one of them of the plethora of skills that just did damage. Even then, they could not hold their own not because of classes being better of them, but because design-wise, they could not even counter many enemies. Especially in hard-mode or Extreme mode without abusing elemental weaknesses.(I say this because some bosses do not have a big weakness.) Just being unique does not make it good. Far from it in fact. It was after the revamps in DF that classes were truly unique and also be designed well.

I mention the Wii U title because it was recent. As such, it should be fresh in player's minds.

Also, I can understand how people can misconceptualize an open-beta as a full release. But the true story is that it is not. Far from it. When you are in beta, you have all the core mechanics down and some extra stuff thrown in as well. There, playtesters would have done if things worked from a small-scale level and give feedback if things were designed well. A closed beta is very much on the small-scale. I am not sure where you got the idea that AE is skipping closed but they might as well also be doing closed just within their own studio. Open beta is just doing things on the large-scale. Quite the difference there.

Again, where did you get the information that Battlegems would be updated based on revenue from the very start? Instead I remember that it was meant to be a one-off game from the very start and if it just get enough attention, AE staff would update it. Yet they did not try to go for many updates. They did not expect to get that many players playing it constantly. In fact, I remember distinctly that initial feedback was very positive. In which case... it was a full title from the start.

I generalized HTML as a whole when I mentioned it. I definitely know that I did not use HTML, the first version. Yet possibly I used HTML4. But I digress. Also, I like to note that HTML5 is from 2014... in October. I am pretty sure Legends of Lore was slated before that. If you want to go to yet another different program... what you are asking programmers is to learn yet another slew of functions. It is never simple. I do in fact know a teacher who uses a whole different slew of programs for her class ranging from CSS to HTML5 to Unity to many others. Yes, her class is oriented towards programming in video games and yes, I just mentioned Unity. From my interactions with her, it definitely is not easy to just change to a new program. All she is doing is just getting basics of each one down, let alone anything advanced. If a programmer was trained in one program only from the basics to the advance... what is going to happen if they use a new program from the ground-up is that they practically have to be trained with a new program. Hardly a viable solution to do so now though. Actually, may I ask you if you handled HTML5 before? Or even Unity?

Except when you are trying to make things better, it IS an update. An update IS a change but a more specific word for changing something. So I addressed the point in full.

Your argument was that they were 3D mechanics though. I did not ignore that doing them in 3D is different. But I was trying to point out that they are not mechanics that solely belong in 3D. As you said yourself, such things can be done in 2D. This basically means that they are NOT needed to be done just to have a full 3D game. Remember that EO example from earlier? I think it demonstrates completely that you do not need any of those just to have a 3D game be received well. IV was the first to use 3D in battles yet it definitely used none of the things you seem to expect in a 3D environment. If anything, the entire way the game was set-up specifically prevents such things. Going back to your expectations, I never denied they were mechanics. Yet here is the thing... look at a lot of 3D games. They are not there much of the time. They are there if the developers wanted them there.

About Robina. You do know that her quests are set up like that temporarily? As a placeholder for people to do? Remember how the amount of EXP to get to level 3 was extraordinarily high? Those things are there so people have something to do in the Alpha as AE is crafting things before everyone's very eyes. Needless to say but they are definitely not there for the long run.

Again, what is with the idea of fast-travel being regarded as something bad? If it is there, let it be there. In fact, you most likely will not even know how to fast-travel to a location in the first place unless you visited it before or you somehow looked it up in the web. In which case, if you are doing the latter, you are willing to forgo all sense of exploration just to find things. This can easily be applied to AQ3D as Skyrim ran on a similar premise, and I use that since people seem to love using it as an example. You can not fast-travel to an area if you did not visit it. Even though AQ3D allows you to fast-travel at any point, you would most likely not know how to even fast-travel to it in the first place. In which case... people can forget. But both typing in the name and having the option on the map can be done. Plus, I do not think people think of this but... some people like to be in their own rooms with just their friends. Being able to type in a room-number just so your friends and yourself be by themselves and not be rudely interrupted is quite the privilege in AQW that other games do not have. In the HUB areas in different 2.5D games, since you seem to mention them a lot, I saw they were incredibly crowded beyond belief. Needless to say, privacy from other players is a nice thing to have. I rather want that as well.

When you say that it worked because most-games back then used a combination of buttons... that is not true. At all. Super Mario Bros did not do it. People still like it. Super Mario Bros 2(USA) did not do it. People still liked it. Punch-out did not do it. People still liked it (INCLUDING the Wii version where if you CAN use the wii mote as if it was a classic NES controller.) Megaman 2 is still one of the most popular games in the Megaman franchise and yet it did not do it. (Even the concept itself would only be in Megaman 3. And even then it was just making use of the fact you HAD a D-pad that went DOWN.) You might argue that Megaman at least had multiple items. Of course we can easily apply that to classes in AQ3D so that is a moot point. If anything, the games that DID a combination of buttons were actually the most NEGATIVELY received. For all what is worth, people really only play Ninja Gaiden just to prove themselves. Design-wise... it is EXTREMELY archaic and just... meh. Yet it did wall-jumping, for what it is worth. Also, about swiping... considering the fact that Bladehaven already did it with a mouse, curves and everything, I really do not think it will be much of a problem for folks in AE to actually implement it considering it was done before.. Yes, it is more work to do as now you have touch controls but I think since it is Alpha, it at least can still be implemented to have its own branch. You all want something new, yes? Well I am giving something that is perfectly viable and yet does not add too many complications. It even addresses the thoughts people have of the game being generic. All in one package. Quite the premium package to deliver, to be honest. Yet why be adverse to more work when if you need to change or do a new thing, you have to do more work anyways? Doing anything requires work. If you need to change something. It requires more work. It is just simple fundamentals.

What I just said does not relate to any way to a combo system, in the gamer sense of the word. I think I should say combination, the word in full in the traditional use. What AE is trying to do, especially now in AQW, is that a certain combination of skills will allow a second use. I use this skill then this skill in order to do something different. Simple as that. I am not going to deny that I want more skills just to add some more flavor, but I am not going to pretend to think that just having four is inherently bad. Not in the slightest. This is where I take preference and throw it to the wayside and think of the game itself in full.

Also, about that parkour... considering this game heavily depended on it, so it was in fact a core mechanic of the entire gameplay... Mirror's Edge. An early PS3 title which I watched a commentary on just to see what it was like. I heard before from another YT user that it was really good. Instead what I saw, and agreeing with the commentators, is that the game ranges from meh to straight out bleh. Allow me to give a rundown. You play as someone who is fleeing from folks who are trying to kill you with assault rifles while using your parkour skills to escape them as they clearly have no training to even do it. How did it do on the very premise it was trying to run on? This was in first-person by the way. What could happen is that you would either grab the platform... or fall to your death due to awkward "hit-detection." It was not the fault of the player for it happening. It definitely looked like they could reach it and climb up but they still fall. Not to mention they tried to allow gunplay in a game that is not meant for it and it SHOWED. When you pick up a gun... you have no reticle. Okay can you look down the sight? No, you can't. So you are basically firing blindly where you only have one clip to depend on. There are multiple sections where you are expected to use a weapon. Oh and... it had melee and it also showed to be awful. (Hands VS assault rifle, WHO WILL WIN!?)

Let us go back to AQ3D. Considering parkour is not even the main focus of the entire game where an entire studio from another company tried to make a game which the main focus WAS parkour and STILL screwed-up... why ask it in AQ3D? Think of the plethora of problems that can originate due to being not a core design focus.

I just like to ask you, on behalf as a friendly player who is just looking out for the games with great care and making sure it is the best product it can be, could I just ask you to apply these situations, all drawn out as if you are an actual game developer, onto the game itself in its current form? For what I am seeing is feedback... but no solutions. Just suggestions but no applications. Can I just ask that you do that, just so we can both understand each other here more? Maybe, just maybe, I can fully understand what you mean what you are truly trying to say because in honesty, it might actually be good but we need to make sure if it is able to be implemented well.
DF  Post #: 228
11/19/2015 4:15:20   
Rezilia
Member

quote:

Could you perhaps concoct a list of games whose alphas have every single gameplay function down?


The majority of MMOs, of which Sly Cooper is not included. AQ3D is an MMO.

quote:

And yet, how is the game rushed when it was just mentioned that the game would have been released by now if it were not due to events happening that prolong the development cycle? If anything, all it proves that the AE staff is actually taking their time.


L.O.L. was developed, as far as I know, for about two years. When it was dropped, the team had to create an entirely new game - AQ3D. They created AQ3D within one year, then released Alpha. Alpha will end soon and directly after it will come OBT.

OBT is the formal public release of any MMO. So, yes, it's rushed because any 3D Unity MMO released one year after its development began is rushed.

quote:

Also, in "2.5D", what you are doing is using the list of methods you would do for a 2D game. They are fundamentally the same. Including your desire to "parkour" where I wish to ask you where you would want to have it even in. Is it even going to control well?


Have you ever played a 2.5D sidescroller? Let's say that you have and, oh goodness, it was completely and totally flat. Look at the images I gave in my first post in this thread - that example is like Dragonica in that you move around in a 3D environment, just with paths. That 2.5D would NOT use 2D mechanics, at all.

They already have the ability to jump, to move in a sphere of directions, etc, so yes - it would control well. Creating moving terrain would take time but wouldn't cause problems. So once again, yes, it would control well.

quote:

I mention the Wii U title because it was recent. As such, it should be fresh in player's minds.


It might be hard to believe, but no one cares about Zelda anymore and no one has ever cared about the Wii U. Note that the majority of people on a forum for PC games are solely PC gamers, so that makes them even less updated on what's happening in the Nintendo world.

quote:

It was after the revamps in DF that classes were truly unique and also be designed well.


I've actually found the opposite to be the case, but okay. :/

quote:

if it just get enough attention, AE staff would update it.


attention = revenue

money = popularity

quote:

I am not sure where you got the idea that AE is skipping closed


I'm pretty sure LyRein brought that up.

quote:

A closed beta is very much on the small-scale.


In nearly every MMO, CBT has nearly everything that OBT has. In nearly every MMO, Alpha represents what will occur in CBT.

Having tested dozens of MMOs and having played hundreds of them, I'm wondering where you got those ideas about testing since you seem pretty misinformed.

I literally just tested 2 other MMOs besides AQ3D earlier this month and their CBTs had everything that their OBTs will have other than cash shop options.

CBT is used to get rid of tons of minor bugs that were missed in Alpha. Massive amounts of players are invited into CBT to increase the chance of those bugs being found. The only time this doesn't happen is when CBT is used as a gimmick to get people to buy Founder's Packs.

quote:

am pretty sure Legends of Lore was slated before that.


AQ3D =/= Legends of Lore

AQ3D is L.O.L.'s spiritual successor, not a port. They did not have to continue using Unity.

quote:

it definitely is not easy to just change to a new program. All she is doing is just getting basics of each one down, let alone anything advanced. If a programmer was trained in one program only from the basics to the advance... what is going to happen if they use a new program from the ground-up is that they practically have to be trained with a new program


I already stated this. This is part of what I said about most programmers not having the same skills or experience.

Thing is, AE has barely any experience in Unity.

HTML5 is more feasible for the future. Since AE was already willing to completely abandon Flash in favor of Unity, it's possible they'd be willing to abandon Unity when they realize how limited it really is.

All that would happen is that they'd do the same thing with HTML5 that they did with Flash and Unity - get good at it within 2 years, and be able to master it a few years after that.

quote:

I think it demonstrates completely that you do not need any of those just to have a 3D game be received well.


EO was 2.5D. It's build in 3D but is limited to paths - wide paths, but paths - and some larger areas. It also visually looks 2D.

Arguing for EO is like arguing for my 2.5D idea. Since my idea had wide paths and some larger areas.

So you're confusing me now.

quote:

This can easily be applied to AQ3D as Skyrim ran on a similar premise


...............................................

You can't teleport in Skyrim.

quote:

Even though AQ3D allows you to fast-travel at any point, you would most likely not know how to even fast-travel to it in the first place.


AQ3D is an MMO. Let's say that you ask someone, "How do I get to doomwood?" They're not going to tell you where to walk, they're going to tell you the /join. Not to mention the fact that most quests tell you what area you are going to, and the /join is, the majority of the time, exactly what they tell you the place's name is.

quote:

In the HUB areas in different 2.5D games, since you seem to mention them a lot, I saw they were incredibly crowded beyond belief.


AE could just make hub areas have population limits like in their other games. Other MMOs are good for reference; I never said they should be directly copied.

... Technically, due to the way AQ3D is set up, it wouldn't have hub areas then party-only instances like most 2.5D sidescrollers, even if it became a 2.5DSS itself.

quote:

Super Mario Bros did not do it.


Oh, you mean one of the first games ever to use platforming? Nintendo gave each key more options as their games developed, like with down having both duck and enter/exit, the flight controls acting differently than on ground, wall-jumping, etc.

So... Bad example.

You're also using tons of examples of the third generation of games. The fourth generation completely goes against your point. We're in the eight generation - tastes and excuses have changed.

quote:

considering the fact that Bladehaven already did it with a mouse, curves and everything, I really do not think it will be much of a problem for folks in AE to actually implement it considering it was done before.


Bladehaven was made in 2D Flash, works solely in browsers, and the tracing often failed.

AQ3D is made in Unity3D, is omni, and you'd have to program the game to recognize the touch of the spell and the touch of the game world separately.

They can't just port the mechanic over.

quote:

Well I am giving something that is perfectly viable and yet does not add too many complications.


..........

Wow.

quote:

I use this skill then this skill in order to do something different. Simple as that.


That's how the combo system works.

A + A = Attack, then Attack

A + B = Attack, then Block

A + B + A = Attack, then Block, then Fireball

Most 2.5D sidescroller MMOs use this system.

quote:

I am not going to pretend to think that just having four is inherently bad. Not in the slightest.


We never said it was bad.

Even if they keep the current version where there are no combo attacks, it still wouldn't be bad. It would be bland, aka boring.

quote:

Mirror's Edge.


You are correct that Mirror's Edge was a terrible parkour game. The devs got those responses and are making things far better in the sequel.

That being said, Mirror's Edge wasn't an MMO. If an MMO has terrible parkour mechanics, those can be patched to work better.

quote:

Considering parkour is not even the main focus of the entire game where an entire studio from another company tried to make a game which the main focus WAS parkour and STILL screwed-up... why ask it in AQ3D?


Technically, they created the best parkour in any game ever. The problem was that they incorrectly matched the parkour to platforming.

You do not need parkour for platforming. All I asked was for AQ3D to have platforming since they want to have exploration elements and since the /join feature negates any difficulty for exploration if the exploration only consists of finding new areas.

quote:

who is just looking out for the games with great care and making sure it is the best product it can be, could I just ask you to apply these situations, all drawn out as if you are an actual game developer, onto the game itself in its current form


I already did this for my 2.5D example in those 3 pic examples I provided in my first post for this thread. Dragonica gameplay is also a good example, although directional movement is slightly more limited in that game.

As for the platforming, just look up how it works in Fusionfall and Milmo. It would work the exact same way in AQ3D.
DF AQW  Post #: 229
11/19/2015 8:48:29   
David the Wanderer
Legendary AK!


 I've got to ask a question. Why would parkour and platforming be so important in a 3D MMO? Apart from a few segments, most MMOs don't really have such functionalities implemented. Yes, I understand that exactly because most MMOs don't have these they could make AQ3D more interesting, but they are not a necessity for the game.

Also, platforming has very little to do with exploration. Exploration is all about hidden places that are hard to reach, and yes, that can involve platforming, but it can also involve following a trail of hints, or spotting something hidden ("Hey, I had never noticed that path before..."), or simply having some luck and stumbling into stuff. Speaking from personal experience as a GM for many RPGs, I hardly hid "extra stuff" behind Strength/Athletics checks, and relied more on rewarding player cleverness.
One such example would be the Tercessuinotlim area in AQW, which has the /join function blocked and requires you to navigate through a maze. The only skill that was rewarded was players' cleverness and tenacity. That is exploration, too. Heck, I personally find it way more rewarding than having to do a platforming session.
DF AQW  Post #: 230
11/19/2015 15:23:30   
Rezilia
Member

quote:

Why would parkour and platforming be so important in a 3D MMO?


Of the few 3D Unity MMOs in existence, most have platforming.

This shows that Unity is incredibly good for creating 3D platforming elements.

While it isn't necessary, it would be great for the devs to take this chance to learn about 3D platforming.

It's about gaining experience.

quote:

platforming has very little to do with exploration. Exploration is all about hidden places that are hard to reach, and yes, that can involve platforming, but it can also involve following a trail of hints, or spotting something hidden


True, but platforming is a great way to reach those hidden areas.

While I certainly would love doing something like getting a shovel, finding a map, and digging a hole to an underground cavern, that's typically not something done in Unity.

I agree that platforming alone is not the only method of exploration. RS had exploration and agility mechanics without any platforming at all - or even jumping. Mabi made it so that you used an exploration tool to make dungeons "appear" out of nowhere. The Tomb Raider series was great about just swimming to hidden areas. I'm well acquainted with these other techniques, but platforming in MMOs is a niche that could garner a much larger playerbase, and Unity has been shown to be able to create excellent platforming.

quote:

which has the /join function blocked and requires you to navigate through a maze. The only skill that was rewarded was players' cleverness and tenacity. That is exploration, too. Heck, I personally find it way more rewarding than having to do a platforming session.


While that's a great idea, don't you think it would be better if combined with platforming?

It's not as if this has to be platforming vs everything else. Different forms of exploration could be combined together.

In the end, it's all about the devs gaining more experience. If all they do is have exploration based on finding areas, they're not going to gain experience in exploration mechanics.
DF AQW  Post #: 231
11/19/2015 16:03:42   
LyRein
Member

So much text to read, not enough time to write.

Agreed with everything @ckdragonck has said.

quote:

Apart from a few segments, most MMOs don't really have such functionalities implemented. Yes, I understand that exactly because most MMOs don't have these they could make AQ3D more interesting, but they are not a necessity for the game.


Modern MMOs DO have these features.

WoW is dated, Runescape is ancient, every Asian-marketed MMO before 2013 is considered old.

Blizzard's newer games are using more of these mechanics,
Bethesda's ESO makes use of these features as-well,
Carbine Studio's Wildstar has a refreshing take on old MMORPG tropes and makes an interesting use of the 3D mechanics.

Those are all modern MMO's.

Being interesting and different IS a necessity in the gaming industry.
Why would people play this game over other MMOs that have better gameplay or more features?
These are the kinds of questions AE needs to ask themselves if they want this game to do well

@Caststarter

You can't compare older generation games to newer ones.
It's like using retro Metroid to point out Halo's flaws.

Using different genres of games also doesn't make sense.
What do singleplayer, platforming, parkour-based or story-oriented RPGs have in common with a social MMORPG (that lacks a lot of social features).


< Message edited by LyRein -- 11/19/2015 16:07:05 >
Post #: 232
11/19/2015 17:53:15   
Rezilia
Member

I'd like to add real quick that 2.5D Sidescroller is prooooobably a bad name for my idea for AQ3D. I simply used it because it's the closest to what my idea would create.

A better term would probably be 2.75D Metascroller. It's 2.75D because the path system makes sidescrolling viable but the game can work just as well if you're not sidescrolling and there are many areas in the game that would be fully 3D instead of just paths. It's a metascroller because the controls allow you to move in all 3D directions rather than forcing you to move in 2D directions, and - as stated before - there are many areas in the game that are fully 3D and you generally wouldn't be sidescrolling in them, although you could.

Note: I've just found out that there's already a 2.75D game called Fa'eL: Beyond the Gate, but it's a sidescroller - meaning that you can only move in 2D directions but the gameworld is still fully 3D. It's good for comparison. :)


For those that can't find my pics, I'll list them again here:

http://s7.postimg.org/9jrgirfsb/2d1.png

http://s23.postimg.org/anzd6zm6z/2d2.png

http://s14.postimg.org/acjh8rfr5/2d3.png

The above pictures are in top-down view. They do NOT show the angle that you'd see the game in.

On the edges of every path (represented by lines) are invisible walls. The areas marked 3D have 3D objects and terrain but cannot be accessed because of the invisible walls. Placement of things like trees will have to be done carefully, but bushes and such won't interfere with the camera as long as most paths are higher up from the ground than the objects on the ground behind the invisible walls. The path is 3D and can be fully explored, with the invisible walls keeping you from going off the paths.

The areas marked "Wall" are visible walls that have backgrounds drawn on to them. Because they are outside the zoom range, the camera won't hit them and you won't get that messy look where you can see that the walls are hollow, such as AQ3D currently has. AQ3D already has these visible walls, such as in Greenguard when you're walking toward Battleon and you see Battleon in the distance - that's not actually a 3D scale of Battleon, it's a visible wall with a background of Battleon drawn onto it.

This concept works best if they implement keys to move side-to-side, which they currently don't have. Implementing the optional mechanic where the camera automatically turns with you when you go to new paths (slightly turning it based on the angle you already have rather than resetting the angle) would be beneficial, but not required since players can just turn the angle themselves.


Once again, this idea is to help the devs cut down on production time while still fully using 3D mechanics. It's not meant to replace the 3D environments currently in the game, rather allow the devs to create new areas in a shorter amount of time if those areas don't really need to use a full 3D environment, thus making it so that some areas are 2.75D while others remain 3D. :)

< Message edited by ckdragonck -- 11/19/2015 18:18:49 >
DF AQW  Post #: 233
11/19/2015 21:36:50   
Vexx
Undead Lunatic


 Heya everyone, so I was reading through and I was hoping I could explain the reasoning behind any stuff that you might be confused about. I originally wrote out a rather large response a few hours ago, but after reviewing another page for reference I accidentally exited out of my browser entirely and my forum post progress was wiped. This time around I'm going to make a shorter post and let you guys ask me for specific things you'd like to know about.

To begin, I'll mention that even though AQ3D has only been in true development for about a year now, it still reuses a lot from Legends of Lore which was originally in Alpha in 2012 (therefore giving it more to work with than just what's been created in this year). It may seem that the game is being rushed but to be fair AE has sort of mastered the art of quick releases with all of their weekly release games, and you'd be surprised by how much work has gone into AQ3D and it's content even though it's only been about a year. The Tech Demo itself started as a "chat & emote simulator" with the Inn being the only playable location and then by the end of the Tech Demo it turned into more of an MMORPG with character levels, currency, shops, equippable gear, multiple skills for combat, quests, varying enemies, loot, multiple maps, jumping and the basic platforming that comes with jumping, and even mobile+pc compatibility.

Now we're much further in development, a few months into the Alpha of AQ3D in-fact and a few of the things we've seen are quest lines for maps, more maps, sound, class specific skills, more UI changes, interactive objects in the world, and lots more to come (a massive chunk of content in the next update alone). There's still tons of stuff to develop and implement into the game before release, so fear not what you're seeing now is far from the final product. Things like XP required for levels, xp + gold rewards from quests, enemy stats and item drops, shop prices and more have yet to be changed and they are still placeholders.

I noticed you guys were worried about the fast-travelling and how you disliked the ability to move to any map through chat commands. Now this hasn't been written in stone yet, however I believe the plan is for there to be a fast-travel system in main towns, similar to DragonFable's fast-travel system in Falconreach. I imagine you would only be able to move to locations that you already discovered, but since the fast-travel feature is still an idea between the devs it has yet to be determined. Like I mentioned before though the devs are still throwing around a lot of ideas for how things should work and some of the already implemented stuff in-game is currently being used as a placeholder until it can be focused on. Things will change, and even then once it's been implemented that's where your feedback comes into play as it allows the devs to take your thoughts into consideration and make changes to current content before the game releases.

Another thing I saw talked about was platforming in AQ3D. At the moment we have some platforming in the form of jumping from object to object. If you played the Tech Demo you might remember the parkour course that was implemented inside of Battleon and allowed you to jump from variously sized objects until you reached the end of the course and were able to jump into water at the bottom of the hidden cave system. The course has since been removed since it's being moved to it's own map, but you'll see it again soon. I imagine there'll also be cases of courses being implemented into other maps as well, like having to climb a large tree for a quest by jumping from branch to branch. This'll probably be as complex as the platforming will get for AQ3D since anything more would probably be difficult on mobile, though we'll just have to wait and see what the devs do. To be fair, I'm personally a big fan of parkour, but I can understand that the focus for AQ3D is around it being an MMORPG rather than a parkour simulator.

Anyway, if anyone has anything specific they want to know feel free to reply to me and I'll answer to the best of my ability!

AQ DF AQW  Post #: 234
11/19/2015 23:12:26   
Rezilia
Member

Thanks for the update, UL! :)

As far as I know, platforming isn't any more difficult on mobile if you're using Unity. Though it's great to hear that there'll be more platforming.

We don't dislike the teleportation feature. We dislike it when exploration consists solely of finding new areas, as the teleportation feature would allow the player to just teleport to those areas. Making it so that you can only teleport to hubs and certain unlocked area is a good idea, however, and I support it.

< Message edited by ckdragonck -- 11/20/2015 3:06:16 >
DF AQW  Post #: 235
11/20/2015 3:15:36   
Vexx
Undead Lunatic


 @ckdragonck

Glad I could help!

quote:

As far as I know, platforming isn't any more difficult on mobile if you're using Unity. Though it's great to hear that there'll be more platforming.

I only meant that it's a little more difficult to move precisely on mobile, though it's definitely still viable. At the very least I was able to climb various objects after some practice with the controls.

quote:

We don't dislike the teleportation feature. We dislike it when exploration consists solely of finding new areas, as the teleportation feature would allow the player to just teleport to those areas. Making it so that you can only teleport to hubs and certain unlocked area is a good idea, however, and I support it.

From what I understand, Cysero REALLY wants to see exploration points added to maps, which I think is what you mean when exploration needs more to it, though I apologize if I misunderstood. Essentially his idea is that you could reach a location on a map such as the top of the giant skull in Doomwoodforest and get a reward for exploring. I imagine there would be various exploration points on maps and that obtaining them all would probably lead to an achievement of some sort.

quote:

My only real question for you is whether the Beta's areas will have much more content and make more use of 3D mechanics. I'd also like to know if things like swimming and jump-pads will exist, as well as whether they're planning to implement the ability to walk sideways and the ability to keybind for browser users.

As for your questions, I think it's safe to confirm that the areas now and the new areas introduced in beta will likely all have more content. Quest lines have yet to be implemented in all of the areas, but by Beta all of the old zones and the new ones should have them. I think Greenguardnorth is a good example of the end-game for a zone, minus the sections of the map that look like they lead to another zone but end in an invisible barrier, these will lead to other locations in the future. I do not know whether or not we'll see more chances for platforming on future maps though.

For swimming and jump-pads, there's not much I can say. I haven't heard anything about them, but it's not such a wild idea that it couldn't happen.

Walking sideways is already implemented, although you'll need to use the WASD control scheme because walking to the left and right is bound to "Q" and "E". Since the arrow keys don't have any keys in the top left and top right corner there's nothing to bind there, though I suppose replacing camera turning with strafing would work since you can use your mouse to turn your camera as well. Definitely something I'll mention to the devs for them to think about. Keybinding for PC users might be possible, though I think it'll be something implemented really late if it is going to be implemented at all. If I remember correctly the devs are focusing on mobile features first and then adding quality of life features for PC. Personally I'd really like to see keybinding, volume controls like Dragonfable, and maybe even UI controls.

quote:

If you have access to one and could show an image of what the controls will look like on mobile, I'd appreciate it. I'm personally a fan of having the D-Pad in the bottom left corner and the Skill Slots in the bottom right. :)

I'll see what I can do but it'll most likely be posted/edited into this post tomorrow since I'll need to get the OK from the team lead to post it.

Edit: The discussion was continued in the Q&A thread, but I'll add the mobile portion here as well in-case anyone else is reading through.

quote:


http://i.imgur.com/2oSOSUJ.jpg

The joystick on the left moves to where you move your thumb (you can pick up your thumb and bring it down somewhere else on the bottom left side of the screen and it'll move to that location) and it of course controls your movement allowing for forward, backwards, and sideways movement. Tapping the joystick also toggles the auto-run mode you go into when clicking in your mouse wheel on PC. Camera movement can be controlled anywhere on the screen that isn't used by a button, and double tapping on the screen allows you to jump. You can directly interact with the chatbox by scrolling it anytime, and clicking the chat bubble just opens up your keyboard directly along with automatically posting your message when you hit return on the keyboard rather than having a send button. Options and inventory icon do the same as they do on PC, so they're a given. :P


< Message edited by Undead Lunatics -- 11/20/2015 11:06:42 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 236
11/20/2015 3:49:08   
Rezilia
Member

Thanks again! That's all very helpful! :D

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Cysero is the best thing to ever happen to AE. One idea I'd have for him is to put in pieces of lore in those areas, like The Secret World did. These basically add to the player's information journal and tell them about the history of areas, events, etc. Not sure if that would fit what he's going for but it sounds like it would. :)

I thought I tried Q and E but they didn't work. I'd test it again right now but Unity is being a jerk today and won't do anything when I click the server name...then it (Unity) crashes. I hate Unity so much.

Take your time. I understand all about non-disclosure agreements. :P
DF AQW  Post #: 237
11/20/2015 11:29:14   
LyRein
Member

Now i'm not a huge fan of Cysero, but I don't hate him either.

He is main writer for AQ3D, that's what worries me.
He did say he used to be writer for early AQW and if anyone remembers clearly, early AQW had no plot or world-building and that put a huge chunk of the player-base off (which might be the reason why only a minority actually talk about lore or future stories).

I'm just hoping AQ3D's story is still fun and lighthearted but actually has a plot to introduce the player to AE.
Like how Borderlands or Wildstar's stories are. Comedic, can get off track but you know there is a plot and a whole world to learn about.
Post #: 238
11/21/2015 5:55:43   
Rezilia
Member

Cysero makes the exact stories you want, Ly.

When he had major sway over DF, it was in its prime.

The early AQW stories had much more quality while costing less time to make and were far less grindy.

I only hope that Cysero has enough sway over AQ3D to make sure it doesn't crash and burn.
DF AQW  Post #: 239
11/28/2015 20:03:20   
RKC
Member

Guys if you have time. Can you watch this vids. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk1Is8WoRW0 Vid on the gameplay itself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPfc0qD2Rjs

I want AQ3D to have at least the true action combat shown in that vid. Meaning real time dodge and block. From what I see and fear right now is that The game is going to a road like WOW where its more on button mashing rather than skill based gameplay.

In tera you dont need to get the best gear, if your a skilled player then you can pretty much survive anything on that game. WOW has an obsolete game mechanic and Im sure AE will head that direction.

They are more concerned about cross platform mechanics rather than the gameplay itself. The previews AE showed us generic combat, generic obsolete gameplay. You might be saying this. "But wow has more players then before" The only reason WOW has a big community is that the lore and story keeps them there.

I just want AE and AQ3D to be the best it can be in current times. If they keep focusing on the cross platform it just goes to show you that they are only after the income not the gameplay.

Im sorry if I offended people for this post because the last time I posted this some people said that Its cruel to force AE to do the things they dont want to do and To change AE into a money grabbing company.

I dont want that. I just want AE to make something really fun, unique and different this time.

< Message edited by RKC -- 11/28/2015 20:04:54 >
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 240
11/29/2015 0:23:37   
Rezilia
Member

TERA gameplay is the exact same as WoW but with dodge and impact. Chances are, attacks in AQ3D won't be precise enough for the dodge mechanic to work.

I'd much prefer it if they used BnS's or Skyforge's action combat systems, which are faux-action just like TERA but enemies respond more to attacks and each response lets the player activate alternative skills.

The only true true action MMO is Vindictus, which uses full-interaction and full precision.
DF AQW  Post #: 241
11/29/2015 7:00:58   
RKC
Member

Anyway those are the new MMO mechanics that players are most likely will love.

AE tends to stick to their old players and relies solely on them. While they hope that new players will be attracted to them.

Right now I'm really torn between getting founders in Tera or in AQ3D and they have the same prices.

Will I love the gameplay of tera or cross platform of AQ3D. Which is more worth it?

From what I can see ahead of AQ3D they will most likely just attract new players because they can play it on the tablet. Gameplay wise AQ3D is not attractive enough, its too generic. Dont get me wrong I have poured a lot of money in AQW and not a single penny on Tera.

Right now Tera or AQ3D thats my question.
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 242
11/29/2015 8:56:47   
LyRein
Member

I think what AE is trying to do is fit in with the standard MMO theme but work on all platforms, hoping to "revolutionize" MMO playing.

What they don't realize is that players are craving for a good, original MMO that makes use of the old tropes by turning them into new ways of thinking.

It also doesn't help that this game is aimed at AE veterans.

Meaning new players that want to spend money on a satisfying MMO will not get any of the jokes or understand what's so special about the NPCs and world.

No one will stay to support the company if they have no idea who they are beforehand.


< Message edited by LyRein -- 11/29/2015 8:59:55 >
Post #: 243
11/29/2015 9:05:54   
RKC
Member

Yup I just hope and hope and hope some more that What they are doing right now is just not some outburst just to do keep up with mobile gaming.

You guys really have to admit. Please be honest and also dont get me wrong. I have been playing AE games for as long as the first game came out and have poured a lot of money and time into them more than any MMO out there.

But the way they are doing things, they are still holding on the old ways. With the amount of resources they have they could raise millions of dollars in kick starter if they can show us a game style like vindictus and tera and all the newer games out their.

But I have no idea why they just cant do that, are they trying to keep in with their theme "kid friendly", "cartoony" looking games.

Oh well I will support the kick starter thing. Not because Im a fan but because I have really really high expectations on them because for the past years they haven't made me let go of them.

So AE here me out. Dont disappoint us all, because some of us are fans because they are mindless fans who support you no matter what. But some also are fans because they see something in you that's worth seeing
AQ DF MQ Epic  Post #: 244
11/29/2015 16:29:38   
speedmeteor101
Member

I especially like some of the feedback generated by @ckdragonck, @RKC on this page. I definitely agree with most of the stuff said and would also like to give some feedback (this is also border-line suggestion). I'd like to emphasize the possible use of timed attacks and dodges as was suggested above by @RKC [using TERA] though I do understand the limitations brought on by the incorporation of mobile devices (which also happens to be a feature). This system was best executed by Blade Haven, which we all realize did not have a set skill system. I feel like it may a bit too late to turn back as the combat system for AQ3D is pretty stable, but I'd still like to through a little bit of feedback at you :P Note a lot of what I'm saying may have been said already, though slightly differently and/ or somewhere else... and the would mean something wouldn't it? Though we also can and will understand and accept what can't be helped. :)

As far a quests goes, I feel like they get a bit too grindy sometimes (mostly referring to robina and I understand it's cuz it's alpha but it might stay that way) and could add a bit of the RPG feel that DF had...
where you felt yourself moving through the story... [maybe that's an issue of AE figuring out how to use cutscenes in unity as these play a BIG TIME role]... I trust Cysero :P

So the current system lacks a bit of originality. It follows aqw's 4 skill set, which isn't horrible, but can make the game a bit boring, at times. Combos and patterns made out of the skills would add more skills in general and give players more options.. i know this would make class releases take a longer, and would drive Korin, the animator crazy, so i completely understand why you don't. Also if you could through in some way to at least boost your accuracy, with timing of the skills (like a window of time where your attack is strongest and/ or sure to hit), perhaps, and dodge (i guess stepping backwards or to the side at a certain time could boost chances of dodging) as this would make the game and players skill much more important and makes the game more immersive.

That's all I really can think of.... too few skills and combat system still a bit... embryonic. Quests will probably get cutscenes soon enough and won't be too grindy so yeah!
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 245
12/22/2015 1:09:47   
megakyle777
Member

Okay, some feedback from me so far:

What I like: A quest can save. Good for the 200 Slome Lord quest.

What I DISLIKE: Only one quest or map can be saved at a time, as shown by me killing five Sime Lords then going to GreenGuard. Lost all 5 progress. Allows multiple quest saves please.

More feedback: The last three slime quests are insane, but I like the fact you get good rewards from them for doing the quests. if you do more farming quests like this I like the idea of doing it half way like this and giving out cool rewardss for reaching certain points.

< Message edited by megakyle777 -- 12/22/2015 4:37:08 >
DF  Post #: 246
12/22/2015 8:34:40   
Evangel
Member

A way to hide the chat would be great. Logged in yesterday for the first time in weeks to check out the new update and someone was spoiling Star Wars.

... Good times.

< Message edited by Evangel -- 12/22/2015 8:36:32 >

_____________________________
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 247
12/22/2015 12:22:56   
megakyle777
Member

More feedback:

I note a LOT of people using Wizard. I think this may be because the targeting in this game is cumbersome without a ranged attack, since you need to get near and they can move around to other allies and thus avoid your attacks. Something need to be one about this so more people use Warrior and Rogue.
DF  Post #: 248
12/22/2015 12:39:37   
LyRein
Member

@above

in a game like this it's extremely hard to find a good balance.
Post #: 249
12/22/2015 12:43:14   
megakyle777
Member

I don't think it's so much a case of class balance since a good Rogue can do a lot of damage. But I DO think it's a matter of a poor targeting system. It's alright to click on a monster in 2D but in 3D it's more of a issue if it moves due to proiritizing a different person or soething. Wizard is used mainly becaise it's the only class with attacks that can hit from anywhere pretty much.
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