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12/20/2016 15:39:55   
shadow.bane
Member

^ just to clear things up a little who said 100 % of your jugg battles are npcs ? those 2 days believe it or not i been facing 80 % of my games versus real human players as a level 26 talking haven't tested level 40 yet but a lot telling me the same thing so my idea is making 10 wins after this update wont make u an expert with all do respect... u might have played it in the wrong time where people were chasing gifts or whatever that u matched up with npcs only, but u can ask any player that is going hardcore in juggernaut now about the how many humans they face in a day.

I didn't play jugg during gamma but i certainly did during delta and i still on the same thinking that jugg was easy as it is now, you don't see the big picture here! all am saying is that devs did this on purpose to keep this dying game a little alive until further notice. if this was the only thing that can keep it a little alive then why not?

you are just going here 1 versus all ED? simple stop playing it maybe other are enjoying it as it is now, if your not just quit that's what most people did.
AQW Epic  Post #: 51
12/20/2016 16:11:29   
Lord Machaar
Member

Most level 40s that do juggs face NPCs. Ask anyone who is level 40 doing juggs and will tell you. Juggs in Delta were easy (When playerbase was high which means more low level partners) but they weren't easy to the point that you can use a bot to win them. And as you saw on the lbs, 6 to 8 players had low winning ratios ~70%.

quote:

you don't see the big picture here!

Big picture? Big picture to you is ED in gifting? ED servers can reach 60 players at reset outside of gifting days, then you can tell me you will face players in juggs. People are enjoying juggs now, until people get done with gifting and get free for botting juggs, then you will see the big picture with the likes of Jaspion using alts to win juggs and compromise competition.

Temporary joy of players should not be confused with the "gifting" joy. The outcome of this jugg change will be seen after the gifting, when mid level players get enough credits to buy jugg cards and get enough with being farmed in juggs since they get matched up with easy-to-kill NPCs versus buffed juggs. At least in Delta, you were matched with another player that you can decide a strategy with, not a NPC that you have 0 cance with. Therefore most mid-level players would just start doing juggs themselves and the whole playerbase will follow up doing them (Low level players), that's how the devs will end up killing 1vs1/2vs2 even though there weren't major problems in them. That's when you will see the big picture.

quote:

you are just going here 1 versus all ED?

Anyone that can use their brain know very well the outcome of this change, making jugg NPCs so easy to kill instead of using harder ones have clear outcomes that I have stated before. Not all people are used to look at long term outcomes, ED players get happy with short term outcomes, then cry after awhile when it looks broken to them. Legendary ranks in 2 words to describe that.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 12/20/2016 16:20:55 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 52
12/20/2016 18:18:20   
shadow.bane
Member

^ i know that the game is going "went" downhill and everyone knows the outcome of this game. my point here is to tell u that no matter how much you try to convince them it's broken they will think otherwise... and fix nothing or ruin, so leave it as it is or else they will try to fix "kill even more" the game. which is the only resort for them to drain money from players for as long as time left for ED to die. < this is the big picture

hope am clearer now.
AQW Epic  Post #: 53
12/21/2016 1:17:40   
SouL Prisoner
Member

@machaar All your arguments are invalid against "No players found*. Find players and all problems solved.

Why don't you ask your friends and family or hire some people to play the game so you can have some "Real PvP exp" Puffff..

Just because some things don't go according to your wises doesn't mean they kill off the game for your egotistic satisfaction.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 54
12/21/2016 8:33:57   
Lord Machaar
Member

^ 61 "NPC" wins to all time juggernaut leaderboards... It was 200 the other day wasn't it? Seems like too much for someone who doesn't care about the game.

quote:

Why don't you ask your friends and family or hire some people to play the game so you can have some "Real PvP exp" Puffff..

Seems like you weren't doing 1vs1 or 2vs2 prior to this update, they were fine. To me, 1vs1 and 2vs2 battlemodes are way more important than juggernaut battles, since they were here since the game's first days and they integrate players from level 1 to level cap, unlike juggs that require a card and level 20. 1vs1 and 2vs2 were fine when we talk about waiting time, they weren't balanced by the latest legendary nerf made them so. Jugg made all these balance changes useless since no one will be doing 1vs1 or 2vs2 ajnyways.

quote:

Just because some things don't go according to your wises doesn't mean they kill off the game for your egotistic satisfaction.

1-Forcing mid-level players to quit 2vs2 and join jugg as well, since they get paired with dumb NPCs versus buffed juggs wil kill 2vs2 battlemode, and therefore the game, since it's a PVP game. Period. Clear point. If you choose to disagree, your problem, not mine.

2- Making juggs easy to the point they can be botted - click here for screenshot - and for another one - hasn't been one week and reports are already pouring. The likes of Jaspion faction members used to bot when there were players, and they were caught since alts were caught and reported. Now since their alts will be paired with NPCs in majority of time, then there is 0 chance for them to get busted and reported. This is also another fact. Period. Clear point. No space for your useless words to gain more time and reach all time leaderboards. When botters will bot juggs 24/7, then we will see you crying and whining here about how botters took your place from all time jugg lbs.

3- During wars, 1vs1 and 2vs2 will be more dead especially at war rallies. Juggernaut battles will offer 100% chance win and easier super drops.

All these are simple logical facts that are bound to happen. You don't agree for personal interest? Your problem. Not mine. 61 NPC wins away, keep it up.

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 12/21/2016 12:38:00 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 55
12/21/2016 11:01:26   
Mother1
Member

@ Lord Machaar

here is something else you missed that I mentioned. Remember what happened before this? The x3 curve with EXP without doing the same for credits? Well because of that not only is it harder to get credits with the other battle modes to fully power yourself up, but as it shows now Juggernaut is the most rewarding due to this as well.

I mean think about it for a moment. Juggernaut thanks to this change is now the easiest battle mode to play and on top of that it gives the most credits which right now is also a big problem due to said curve.

Almong with what you pointed out said issue only makes it worse. Personally while I was originally for NPC being added to the mix to help wait times, I never wanted it for Juggernaut to be honest.
Epic  Post #: 56
12/21/2016 12:46:23   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

here is something else you missed that I mentioned. Remember what happened before this? The x3 curve with EXP without doing the same for credits? Well because of that not only is it harder to get credits with the other battle modes to fully power yourself up, but as it shows now Juggernaut is the most rewarding due to this as well.

Even if they make credits gain faster for 1vs1/2vs2, players would still pick juggs, because they are easier and faster to do. So I think the x3 EXP curve has little to nothing to do with people picking juggs over other battlemodes, especially when gifting is still going on. It could have been a legit reason if there wasn't any gifting.

If they make juggs harder, and make it give more credits rewards, players would still not pick it. Players go for easiest battle modes, not for their "high rewards" but for how fast they can get such rewards. Juggernaut has became a NPC battle mode basically, if it gave 15 or 30 credits, people would still play it because they know they will be getting rewarded faster. If you make 2vs2 give 80 credits or 100 credits per battle, mid-levels would still refrain from doing them, despite giving bigger rewards, so they would pick juggs, giving lower rewards but faster ones. In the case that we are in, juggs give bigger rewards and faster ones, a battle mode should not combine both, especially if it's one that includes NPCs.
MQ Epic  Post #: 57
12/22/2016 1:58:40   
SouL Prisoner
Member

quote:

During wars, 1vs1 and 2vs2 will be more dead especially at war rallies. Juggernaut battles will offer 100% chance win and easier super drops.


The only reason why your so butthurt.

quote:

To me, 1vs1 and 2vs2 battlemodes are way more important than juggernaut battles,


Obviously because that's what you play and you're worried that Jugg will be a competition.(war) It all comes down to your interest. For the past 3 years you never ever bothered to raise your voice on how Jugg mode was dead and now when Dev's finally do something about it, you want it to stay dead so you casually enjoy your solo. Pufff So much for "i care for ED". You're nothing more than typical selfish "person" trying to act good. So ty for your "feedback" Lord "Saint" i think Dev's handled it fine. :)

quote:

^ 61 "NPC" wins to all time juggernaut leaderboards... It was 200 the other day wasn't it? Seems like too much for someone who doesn't care about the game.



quote:

I was actually playing to complete that 600 wins mission
http://prntscr.com/dmhpia


quote:

@machaar All your arguments are invalid against "No players found*. Find players and all problems solved.



Fin.


< Message edited by SouL Prisoner -- 12/22/2016 2:06:08 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 58
12/22/2016 4:23:21   
nowras
Member

@SoulPrisoner
@BaneHallow
@Shego
@Machaar

I do agree with Machaar. Juggernaut is too easy now. Making it harder doesn't mean killing that mode. A simple fix would be that one I suggested twice; to improve the NPCs AI. If it's implemented, we won't need to worry about botting this mode or letting people ONLY play this mode. Plus Mr. Soul and Mr. Bane. I want to ask you one question and I want you to answer honestly: What's better, to be the only one or one of the few players only who can get 95%+ Ratio in juggernaut while others get 80%- or to get 99% win ratio just like everyone else?
I'll answer it for myself. I, of course, do prefer getting 95% as one of the only players who do that. That's because it proves how strong I am. Getting 99% along with others doesn't make me feel special or in fact, it doesn't make this battle mode special at all as even the worst players would get the same % as me. I want to hear your answers now.

< Message edited by nowras -- 12/22/2016 4:25:34 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 59
12/22/2016 5:58:59   
SouL Prisoner
Member

I don't mind NPC AI/level improved. All together removing NPC's is the problem. That will just kill off jugg and that's what machaar wants. Jugg dead!

< Message edited by SouL Prisoner -- 12/22/2016 6:15:55 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 60
12/22/2016 6:37:57   
nowras
Member

Machaar never said that. He only wants juggernaut to be harder, and I do agree with him.
AQW Epic  Post #: 61
12/22/2016 7:28:58   
SouL Prisoner
Member

I don't read anywhere, where he says "Improve AI or increase NPC level". Just saying make it hard has many means and can be done in many ways. Pointless criticizing without any good suggestion.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 62
12/22/2016 11:52:50   
Lord Machaar
Member

quote:

The only reason why your so butthurt.

Because of wars? At least I have enough influence to secure a good spot on all time lbs. The "butthurt" one here is you being desperate as hell to keep juggs easy and reach all time lbs. 27 NPC wins by the way, keep it up.

quote:

I don't mind NPC AI/level improved. All together removing NPC's is the problem. That will just kill off jugg and that's what machaar wants. Jugg dead!

quote:

I don't read anywhere, where he says "Improve AI or increase NPC level". Just saying make it hard has many means and can be done in many ways. Pointless criticizing without any good suggestion.

So now you are being delusional and started making up conclusions? This is a discussion thread, not a suggestion thread. And I did not suggest anything on here, so if you are blind, I suggest you to wear glasses. If you are dumb, I suggest you to go back to school. If you don't understand English, I advise to re-take English classes. If you don't understand Forums rules, I advise you to re-read them, and know where discussion usually takes place, and where suggestions and balance ideas usually take place.

P.S: Suggestions belong to Suggestion/Balance threads. Here is my suggestion to improve Juggs that I posted 8 days ago: Juggernaut Mode. If you are that desperate to reach all time lbs or complete your "mission", then we can give you time to do that, since you know you are so bad, you can't even win competitive battles.

"Fin".

< Message edited by Lord Machaar -- 12/22/2016 11:57:07 >
MQ Epic  Post #: 63
12/22/2016 12:27:51   
shadow.bane
Member

No game is a pure pvp game in general in the whole world let's take for example dota 2 and lol which are we can say most famous nowadays which have npcs in them to empower yourself when the time of need and they are way easier then ED's npcs lol.
ED wont survive another year without npcs so that's about it, if devs saw that this will revive ED for few more months to drain our money then they will do that. so no point of arguing about just enjoy the last few remaining months before it shuts down completely.

_____________________________

Bane Hallow The Last Shadow Fiend.
AQW Epic  Post #: 64
12/22/2016 13:04:41   
Lord Machaar
Member

Some die with dignity and honor, while some don't. It is still up to the devs.
MQ Epic  Post #: 65
12/22/2016 13:09:57   
Warmaker04
Member
 

 I remember when everyone said : *Bye stupid Delta 'spits'*, *Why is omega still not released*, *Omg stop making us wait and release Omega!*. Oh well, Delta's revenge (leaving us) is sweet

< Message edited by Warmaker04 -- 12/22/2016 13:11:42 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 66
12/22/2016 13:19:47   
nowras
Member

I remember that I was one of the very few people who disliked Omega and never wanted it to be released. Unfortunately, this game is still refusing to implement any of my suggestions or listen to me even though I'm one of the very few who really do have a strong vision. That's really sad.
AQW Epic  Post #: 67
12/22/2016 13:21:03   
Warmaker04
Member
 

 I feel you, but please, lets not get offtopic as our posts will get deleted :)
AQW Epic  Post #: 68
12/22/2016 13:25:12   
Warmaker04
Member
 

 To be honest, I don't even understand how constantly battling npcs as a juggernaut, or battling juggernauts as a low level with a partner which is npc, seems fun to Titan.
AQW Epic  Post #: 69
12/22/2016 14:21:18   
shadow.bane
Member

quote:

Some die with dignity and honor, while some don't. It is still up to the devs.


I didn't know there is dignity and honor in a game i though it only applies to real world.
What you should really say is some die having fun and some just won't let go, it's up to the devs.
It's all about having fun here.
AQW Epic  Post #: 70
12/22/2016 14:49:05   
Gold Shock
Member

I am going to post my opinion on the current state of Juggernaut & iterate why I agree with Machaar.

Juggernaut:

The mode needs a massive overhaul to make juggernaut hard(core) - A bit more difficult at lower level and a bit easier at higher level. Not to much, but not to little. Now to all you old dogs out their, I'm not talking about easy Delta ratios for Juggernaut when it was first released, but something less frustrating and more manageable. Juggernaut wasn't supposed to be an easy battle mode from the beginning.

What we simply need is to make the juggernaut ALWAYS go first despite the level gap and support difference. This way, it is still fair since the players fighting the jugg also deal huge damage in just a short amount of time. As it currently stands, the jugg goes second all the time; meaning you're still going to be placed on the defensive, particularly when fighting against de-buff classes. If the juggurnaut always goes first , he/she has the option to play as an offensive or to stay on the defensive.

There's way more Juggernauts than there are available players in range which is why Juggernaut has turned into an NPC mode. The wait takes several minutes at times, but the battles are far to easy. The unlucky opponents of a Juggernaut are often too inexperienced and ill-equipped to handle Juggernauts. So Perhaps, instead of increasing the range (making Jugg even easier), the staff could consider other options to prepare lower level players for the inevitable Juggernaut battles.

Make Juggernaut hard again!
HAX 61.0 - 92.5%
Daily 44.9 - 98.6%
Juggernaut

Juggernaut should be fixed, than reserved for Varium players. This would limit the quantity of Juggernauts to ensure best matching and to make sure the system is stable.

quote:

Juggs in Delta were easy (When playerbase was high which means more low level partners) but they weren't easy to the point that you can use a bot to win them.


When he refers to "easy", this picture will explain. Keep in mind this is right at juggernaut release in delta. (Delta began 5/29/2011 & ended 12/20/2012):

2011 All-Time Juggernaut

The lowest % is 94.1 on a 554 win scale.

The first minutes of juggernaut:

Juggernaut Release

quote:


Juggernaut battles weren't always easy, they were easy because there were a lot of low level players, and the devs did not use a good filter for battles to favorate challenging battles for juggs.


Juggernaut should be a hard battle mode but not where you lose more than you win. Prior to this update It was impossible (unless someone can prove me wrong) for level 35-40 to have a win percentage in Juggernaut that is over 50% and maybe even 40% no matter what Class or type of build he possessed. Juggernaut became unpopular thanks to the removal of enhancements back in Delta and barely anyone played it except the low levels.

quote:


During wars, 1vs1 and 2vs2 will be more dead especially at war rallies. Juggernaut battles will offer 100% chance win and easier super drops.

quote:

To me, 1vs1 and 2vs2 battlemodes are way more important than juggernaut battles,


PvP plays a vital role in the current game’s state, and one can surely argue that without the fully-functioning PvP, EpicDuel wouldn’t exist at all. EpicDuel’s PvP is overall a very well-done mode, as 1v1 and 2v2 matches are available almost instantly, the combat and strategic mechanics are strong, varied, with credited smooth-flowing fighting. I should add they were much smoother when battles were faster paced. The current version of NPC's in juggernaut simply do not mesh with the original goal of EpicDuel.



< Message edited by Gold Shock -- 12/23/2016 9:07:11 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 71
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