RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (Full Version)

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ZamuelNow -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/8/2010 22:28:04)

@Hellsoarer: Scaling mechs isn't MQ's style in most situations.

Currency is a funny thing. Too little and you struggle to get what you need. Too much and it becomes trivial to obtain what you want and thus it is pointless for it to even exist. At the high levels it is fine but still needs tweaking at low levels. I'd suggest keeping the credit per level ratio the same but give large credit rewards for completing specific low level tasks. Not only can this help with the problems that are inherent from specific quests like Energy Blades 101, it also helps with perception. The "I saved the world...why are you still selling me stuff" complaint is actually long running. That logical blow could be softened by giving credit rewards ("raises"?) upon reaching certain job ranks. Possibly it could be even farther enhanced by a simple celebration screen where Parma John/Nurse Helia/Chief Duncan/Mysterious Johnson thanks you for being such a hard worker. As far as mecha rewards, it could be given an in-universe handwave that we ARE getting the discount price. Heh, how many long time players remember the original prices for these mechs?



seventy two -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/8/2010 22:42:15)

@Hell I think credit scaleing mechas of that amount is bad , because generally the price does not warrant the ability. Small time scaling is fine but will still remain rare as I believe scaling was originally meant for NG items to increase item value. I am in favor of seeing more NG scaling such as that because NG items increase in cost as you level, and such costs are getting a bit out of hand.



Hellsoarer -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 0:13:14)

*BEEP* *BEEP* Extra! Extra!
1st Id like to state that MechQuest is not dying
My idea! You know the same old Hover Bugs... E1s... And all those worn out mechs! Dont you think theyre tired of being slaughtered every day? Well Ive got an idea! They need more buddies! You know what that means... more enemies! Corrupted Starships, anyone? Mutant Brainslugs? More enemies, newer enemies, stronger enemies! When I click the battle button I see SOOO many Tech Phantoms! We need to change that! More enemies, more enemies, more enemies!


quote:

The "I saved the world...why are you still selling me stuff" complaint is actually long running.


Yeah I dont get why they do that
"Yay you saved my planet! Now just bring me 100 scrap metals, ok? Now that youve done that, bring me 100 elemental embers. Thanks now just pay three hundred eighty thousand credits for this."




forumlogin -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 0:47:43)

@Hellsoarer
Ya do know that they are indeed updating enemies, right? XD
It's not very new news.
In any case, I'm against changing the Battle Button because that removes the last farming spot for the hopeless (i.e. Those unlucky enough to have gotten a Silver Nubertron).
Everywhere else, sure.

@Zamuel
I said it before, but I think lowering mecha prices and reducing exp needed to level would help with grinding complaints, without creating a surplus/lack of credits. :P
Of course, adopting DF's EXP bar would certainly aid with perception. XD



Mange -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 1:28:17)

quote:

We all know what hands are for. But if you want to be obstinate about adding in a feature, perhaps you should make your own game. The staff here have plans. Though those plans are sometimes influenced by player input, players are ultimately not the ones to call the shots. If there isn't a drop in MQ like there is in the other games, maybe it is because MQ is MQ - a project with its own agenda. Besides, arguing what can physically be done is pointless since the game world is not a physical one. The laws of "physics" are determined by a certain paper-bag-headed entity. If you want a reason for your "can't dos," there are numerous possibilities. Maybe the defeated chassis are beyond salvage in a majority of cases (I say majority because War mecha are labelled explicitly as Salvaged). Maybe they're scrapped and given to charity. Whatever the reason is, drops don't and won't happen until Korin decides so.


Prehaps if my idea was not just called "dumb" and rejected out of hand, I wouldent have been 'obstinate'. It was an idea and it was attacked, something that seems to be increasing alot on these forums, I myself dont ever recall calling some one eles idea 'dumb' 'retarded' or 'stupid' and to be honest I can see why people are not sticking with this game with attitudes like that.

Honestly? next time I'll just keep my ideas to myself. You guys have fun.

Thank you to the people who were at least willing to listen =)



ZamuelNow -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 2:21:11)

@Mange: Hold on now grasshopper. Great mind can smash mountains but weak back can not lift heavy breakfast.





...





Now that you're thoroughly confused, I say we should all have thick skin. Different people have different views on what can help the game and discussion will help flesh them out. On the flip side, we shouldn't be attacking each other over semantics of storyline based stuff that could easily be explained away.


One thing that might help spice the game up and tweak balance is making a few new enemies with interesting quirks. Sure we get new enemies here and there with new abilities but perhaps some things should be done differently. For instance, lowering an enemy's EN regen is generally considered underpowered and undesirable even on EN destroying build. But why? Other forms of EN destruction work better for the way enemies are made. We lack enemies with an attack that has a high EN cost that is accompanied by high regen and a low enough cooldown to actively use it. Explicitly giving them high regen helps counter other forms of EN destruction. This also favors designing more enemy mecha as actual mecha with the 6 attack slots as opposed to the monster style enemies that are the norm. The high EN cost weapon could be the body while the rest of the parts are normal EN costs. Personally I feel the game would be better with more mecha styled enemies but monster styled enemies do have their place.



UltimaKomoto -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 12:12:50)

quote:

Heh, how many long time players remember the original prices for these mechs?

I specifically remember the Newbatron V1337 being...what was it....20000 credit? 30000? That's for a level 3 mech back in the day...
Those were not fun times.

quote:

Id like to state that MechQuest is not dying

Currently has the lowest People Playing amount of the main game (WarpForce does not, and never will, count as a full game in means)
It might not be dying *yet*, but it's on the verge of lifesupport, I think.

quote:

We need to change that! More enemies, more enemies, more enemies!

While I could possibly agree with that in the long run, I don't think it's a entirely huge concern at this time. Main things should be story (being worked on), more good, permanate content, and Energy Blade Revamp (also being worked on?), along with other important things

quote:

Yeah I dont get why they do that
"Yay you saved my planet! Now just bring me 100 scrap metals, ok? Now that youve done that, bring me 100 elemental embers. Thanks now just pay three hundred eighty thousand credits for this."

You know what I don't get. How in AdventureQuest, the hero actually flatout refuses a free gift, and when offered the chance to pay for it, he/she jumps all over it. Logic is garbage.

quote:

Both the high exp requirement and the high mecha pricing are things that drive away new players, I think.

*Remembers the lowest-level Lucky Nubertron being 125000 credit, yikes!*
I will say though, that the mech prices are pretty bad up until 30+. At that point, you can actually amass enough credit per level for a mech and some weaponry. I'm also willing to say that the lack of good non-rares at the lowest levels (1-20) is also a driving problem, although recent updates have helped a bit.

quote:

Great mind can smash mountains but weak back can not lift heavy breakfast.

True statement.

Just a few (random) thoughts from me.



stealthwings -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 15:07:58)

About the weapon drops, it does not make sense.

Lets say I wanted to build a robot with a light that it would activate itself. Which would I do, give it a light switch, and a light, and an arm with which it could flick the switch? Or just give it a light which it can activate itself? (Hint: The second one)
It would be completely pointless giving it a light switch.

Same with a gun. Why would you make a robot with a hand, which would then press the trigger to fire it? Why not just incorporate the gun into the arm?

Now, lets say that we will make OUR mecha have an arm and a hand to activate its weapon so that it will be able to pick up other peoples weapons. 1. It is slower, and takes more energy, but we are going to ignore that and do it anyway. 2. Why is the enemy just going to say "Well I will do that too, because I want you to have my weapon and use it to kill my friends"? They have it incorporated into their arm, since they A) Don't want us to get it, and B) Don't want to waste the time and energy in the fight.

Yes. The hand with the opposable thumb is pretty amazing. It has allowed us humans to conquer the world. But as MQ has taught us, victory comes from overspecialization. If you build a giant robot specifically designed for combat, you would not give it an opposable thumb. When is the last time you used your thumb in a fight? Yes, you can use it to grab your opponent. But that isn't that complex. You can do that with a hook, or a gripper claw type thing. You have no reason to give your mecha a hand. The hand is an amazing thing, but in a machine designed for mostly combat and occasionally for transport, you have no reason for a hand. In salvage shops, it probably costs whoever is selling it quite a bit of money to change the enemies weapon into a format compatible with your mecha. Thus, they get to charge you.

*Mecha with fists are rule of cool. Which does not apply in picking up your opponents weapon.



kasama999 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 18:26:46)

quote:

About the weapon drops, it does not make sense.


Actually, it does.

Ex. when we defeat an enemy, we get a roll wherein we'll get salvaged FA/BA/BS/FS/Head. Then we go to Tek to have it fixed. Tada, new weapon.




forumlogin -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 18:48:22)

@kasama
Mange's idea most definitely did not incorporate rolls, and any loot roll idea I will be opposed to unless they're sparse and mostly for the bragging rights like Zargon's heads.

Also about the weapon drops, again, I don't think it should be widely spread, but say we take out a ShS supply ship--it may have carried weapons with it, and was strong enough not to have been completely destroyed when you fought it--thus, drops.
I don't like the random drops idea, but Mange's idea of 100% chance of getting a drop (preferably for low levels primarily, I'll add) may certainly work.



Hellsoarer -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 18:54:12)

I like the sound of drops but not from normal enemies
I mean boss-enemies - thats where you get the big boys



stealthwings -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 20:10:10)

@kasama
Did you read the rest of my post? I said exactly why it would NOT work.

And that is what happens right now. Except no roll. And there is a different NPC, not tek. Whoever the local weapon shop person is. And you have to pay them.



icemaster 77 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 20:49:04)

I think MQ needs a exp boost and a decrease in mech prices. The credits drops aren't 1 level to 100 credit ratio and the 1 credit drop level to 10 weapon price ratio over lv 11. The mech prices are 1 level to 100 mech price ratio which is fair.

I also want to know that I used to play a Asian MMO called B.O.T.S. It is very easy to level up. In under 100 hours, you can level up to 100. Don't bother finding B.O.T.S, the game already shutdown.

If you are confused about the level to credit ratio and the credit level to weapon price ratio, here is the list:

level: credit drop: weapon price:
1 100 250
2 200 500
3 300 750
4 400 1000
5 500 1250
6 600 1500
7 700 1750
8 800 2000
9 900 2250
10 1000 2500
11 1100 2750
12 1200 12000
13 1300 13000
14 1400 14000
15 1500 15000
16 1600 16000
17 1700 17000
18 1800 18000
19 1900 19000
20 2000 20000

The ratio for lv 1-11 credit drop level to weapon price is 1 credit drop level to 2.5 weapon price.



Hellsoarer -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 21:33:41)

Can people stop suggesting credit and exp raise and lower prices? That would make the game boring - "Yay I did 5 battles now I can get a Frankenmecha!" - Seriously?



EinhanderX01 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 22:14:56)

Talking about the practicality of a hand with a weapon or a weapon in place of a hand is getting off-topic. I'd comment on it, but not in this thread.

As for "End of Mission Drops", it should be called "Salvage" (NOT to be confused with the ShS Rare Salvage available during ShS Wars), but unlike shop weaponry, the price would be discounted, but the weaponry are as good-as, if not slightly better than, similar Shop equipment (after all, you did fight your way to the cache of weaponry, so discounted pricing and better-than-average equipment is an extra Reward). All you're paying for is the recovery and refurbishing of salvaged equipment; if you want to have some canon explanation. And it could easily be incorporated like the "hidden" shop in the "Starship Parts" mission from Warlic, where after completing that one particular mission (getting all the parts), you're given automatic access to a general Salvage shop on the next run after.

If it's to be actual Drops, like Mortis 3009's Candy Bag for NSCs/SCs, it has to be restricted to Bosses, and a guaranteed giveaway, not like the annoying 100 rolls on Zargon. Because really, it's a pain having to fight through so many enemies, running back to the heal point(s) every 2 or so battles, then reach the Boss, defeat him, only to find that a decent Drop requires luck to obtain. In this case, the strength of the Drop is based on how hard the mission was (if it was just a Boss Battle, just plain Better-Than-Average; if it was a series of battles + Boss, then Almost Rare level).

Of course, the type of equipment the Drop is will either be a Head, Shoulder, or Arm weapon. If they are Shoulders or Arms, there might be two to choose from, but you can only get one. You'll have to repeat the mission to get the other one. Salvaging an intact Body (Chassis), if ever considered (which it should never be), will be restricted to an occasional Final Boss; and while the Chassis may look the same as the Boss's, due to the amount of damage you had to do to defeat them, the Body's weapon isn't as powerful as it was when the Boss was alive and using it (for a canon explanation as well as balancing of strength so as to not start a Buff/Nerf war).

All Drops would be NSC with SC level Damage and a decent NSC Special plus an Extra SC-Only Special or two (both to entice SCs to actually complete the mission and consider the Drop as well as to provide Upgrading NSCs with a weapon they don't have to replace right away), just to reduce the Staff's need for duplicate code-work for the same visuals (including animations) and equip point.



icemaster 77 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 22:22:08)

Also, when you are fighting bosses, you might get a chance of destroying the arm, shoulder or head. So you could only get one at a time. Sound like a bit of logic.

The salvage weapons should probably have a 10%-25% discount.



zeke50100 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 22:27:06)

It's not that. It's more of a "Yay! I completed a quest and built up credits to buy the rewards from the last quest I did! ...Wait, there are rewards for THIS one, too? Crap, I suddenly need way more credits!"

That said, I completely agree with what Zamuel is saying. So much stuff is being created for so little work involved (for the player). We don't need a brand-spanking new mecha each time we catch 5 bugs and solve a puzzle. Back in the old days, we had long quest chains that actually made you feel like you accomplished something by the end of them. Rewarding us for every little thing can, I believe, deter people for staying because they never feel "rich" enough.

Old mecha prices were insane. In a way, though, it's that sense of accomplishment that we need in this game again. It doesn't have to be 100 hours of Maplestory-esque grinding to gain half a level and make enough money for 3/4ths of a piece of equipment, but it doesn't have to be a new weapon or mecha every 10 minutes.

As for the level cap, it's a little ridiculous. There are so many gaps of equipment that there is a huge opportunity cost we pay every time we raise it. We get into a mindset of "Whoo! Now we need a crapton of level <cap> stuff!", when we should be thinking "Let's do X, Y, and Z before raising the level cap". This, combined with the fact that 80% of MQ's equipment is all rare, results in an astoundingly low amount of content newer players (i.e. not many of us) can access.

If we first focus on providing less rare and more permanent content, I believe in time the other issues will become easier to resolve. If we take one step forward by NOT having so much rare stuff, we'll definitely be on the right path. My request? Work on making certain wars permanent (SDF war was a favorite of mine, if only because it was the first time an NSC player could hit over 30), and cut back on the overall amount of rare wars.

~Zeke~



EinhanderX01 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 22:59:43)

quote:

The salvage weapons should probably have a 10%-25% discount.

25% - 50% is more like it, esp. if it comes after several battles (and maybe even a Minor Boss). And because it's specifically hidden within that one quest, it also indirectly encourages mandatory farming, though depending, it might just fund the purchase of one weapon from the shop each run (regardless, the EXP build-up isn't wasted).

I've offered countless ways to help bring in more content, and I'm not going to repeat them again for the next few pages. Ultimately though, it doesn't matter how many variations of a particular suggestion are offered by the players or repeated ad verbatim; it's up to the Staff to read and decide on a course of action.



Drakyloid -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 23:00:17)

Not releasing items, events or the such on some lesser events such as, but not limited to, April Fools, TLaPD, Valentine's Day and Friday the 13th could help to decreasing the amount of rare equipment. In my opinion, they're not major enough to deserve a rare piece of equipment or event. Friday the 13th is common enough, so should it even have an event for it? April Fools isn't exactly a legal holiday over in the US, nor is Valentine's Day and TLaPD. I actually never heard of TLaPD until around 2008, when I joined the AE forums. Perhaps only keeping international/major national holidays like Christmas (Frostval), Easter, St. Patrick's Day, Thanksgiving, Halloween (fine, it's not exactly a holiday but it's known throughout most of the world) and 4oJ could be a good countermeasure to the increase in rare equipment. 4oJ and Canada Day (3 days apart) can be merged into one holiday; perhaps "America's Anniversary"? Now, you might ask why New Years isn't on there. Well, it's close enough to X-Mas (one week apart), so they can be a 2-in-one deal, like 4oJ and Canada Day. Of course, the MQ Anniversary can stay. After all, it's important enough, right? :)

By the way, the listed holidays are each at least a month apart, for the most part.
New Years: January 1
St. Patrick's Day: March 17
Easter: April 4 to May 8
Canada Day: July 1
4oJ: July 4
Thanksgiving: October 11 (Canada); November 25 (U.S.)
Halloween: October 31
Christmas: December 25

Now the focus is spread out a bit, so there should be enough time for the storyline to progress. The end of the year is still rather packed, but oh well. They're all international events, after all.



Hellsoarer -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/9/2010 23:36:42)

Guys, think of the Skullcrusher
He rips off their arm
Then after they eject he just throws it back to them?!?!?
You ripped off their arm, why dont you just keep it?!?



RainBlade -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/10/2010 2:40:26)

Some people requested an assassin creed 2 mecha that would level up with your character I hope this helps



stealthwings -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/10/2010 15:36:41)

@Hellsoarer
That ripped off arm is just a piece of metal, which it uses to hit the opponent. Like if we were fighting, and I ripped off your arm and hit you with it. You can't use it, it has been mostly destroyed, what else would you do with it?



Psycho Warrior -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/10/2010 16:13:31)

that's also implying that the weapons are even compatible to the point where you could tear off your own arm and slam that new one in place of it.

aight, you guys carry on with your discussion[;)]




Mange -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/10/2010 17:11:44)

quote:

Like if we were fighting, and I ripped off your arm and hit you with it. You can't use it, it has been mostly destroyed, what else would you do with it?


Invite some friends to a bbq and cook it up?



skyvolt666 -> RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It? (11/10/2010 17:30:49)

Just going to throw out there that the biggest turn off for many people I have talked to is the amount of rare equipment.

Now these were new players, friends that I had invited to play, and they didn't say it in those terms. They said that all of the stuff disappeared after about level 5. They were playing along and doing great till they reached the "G.A.P". Giant Area of Plain. Which basically started at level 5 or so and lasts till about level 23. So I went and looked into those level ranges and found something interesting, almost every weapon/mech for those levels is RARE. Which once the rare event is over means it no longer exists. So we have a huge area filled with stuff that doesn't exist. Which makes getting through that area very Plain and boring because you are forced to use the same weapons for basically forever. This caused a bunch of them to quit.


Bottom Line - Rares are bad. They create an influx into the economy that when removed causes a rapid deflation and a Depression of sorts.



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