RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (Full Version)

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ReinXI -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 13:53:45)

That would make BMs crap ^ ... just change fireball is that really a hard thing to do? It wont affect any other class and will make them be able to still have health regain on damage
remember mercenaries have something BMs dont A passive armor so unless you plan on giving that to BM's it just wont work...



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 13:54:48)

@STRUT
quote:

Support: Increases base damage range of Auxiliaries, increases chance to go first, critical strike and rage rate; reduces chance to be stunned and enhances certain skills.


I see nowhere where it says that higher Support guarantees going 1st always. Probability.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 14:21:45)

Higher support does not necessarily mean that you go first. It should decide more on who goes first, but for now, it is almost entirely luck based.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 14:48:38)

Fix STR and you fix STR Abusing builds ;)

Remove EMP from CH and they'll be tough but beatable



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 15:05:48)

My Solution to Strength:
Add a Agility-like feature to it, but instead it reduces the Dex stat and the Tech Stat. (Starts with -8 Dex -8 Tech at 72 Strength maybe? -12 -12 at 87? -18 -18 at 105? -24 -24 at 129? Includes Stat modifiers and enchancements)



STRUT MY MUTT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 15:27:28)

@Trans From what I said, how did you translate it into me saying higher support guarantees that one goes first?


@Shadesofblue - thats one of the best ideas I've heard.







Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 15:31:29)

quote:

No matter how low support blood mages have, they seem to get to go first the majority of the time.

Quoting your post, it's a luck complaint that isn't allowed in this thread. You said low Support so I assume you have higher than them and are surprised/angry that they go first so I just said that Support raises your chances of going first not gives you 100% chance or something. This is called probability or call it luck if you want. If you have lower Support than them, you shouldn't be angry at it.

And funny, Agility for Strength.. Would've thought simple change like Andy's would be more than enough rather than roundabout methods.



STRUT MY MUTT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 15:52:21)

It seems you change the things you hear in your head the way you want to decipher it, not what was actually said. And of course I had higher support or why would I say anything

to begin with? If higher support increases chances to go first, to me that means if 2 peeps fought each other 100 times, the one with higher support should go first the majority of

the time but thats not the case. And who says I'm angry? There you go making things in your head again that was never said nor implied. To remedy, I simply lowered my support

back down since it wasn't doing what it's advertised to do.





As far as an agility-like feature for strength, that would greatly reduce the number of superstrength builds.





Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 16:10:36)

It's hard to notice what tone you use over internet but your post was a luck complaint and is often being repeated (the same "problem"). I said angry OR surprised since your tone in the post implied so, not mentioning the fact it's a luck complaint so I added it up which wasn't hard to do + we're not alike hence we may understand things in a different way. No point to be harsh.

Also you seem to remember all cases when you didn't go 1st with high Support, and mind giving us data about when you did go first? Perhaps enemy's and your Support would be good and amount of times you went first, even sample of 10 on one person (challenge) would be good and you'd see the actual chances of going 1st as per calculations and compare it to your data. Of course it'd add to average and sample may be too small but you'd see for yourself.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 16:14:13)

@shades
72 seems a bit low, maybe 80 since some 5 focus builds could get that high easily even without enhancements.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 16:22:42)

Shadesofblue has the right idea for balancing a stat.

Diminishing is a currently used feature and I do support it. However... diminishing creates another balance problem. How does the feature "diminishing" or "decaying" affect the feature "Focus" in theory? There are 3 paths of constructing a character in EpicDuel: maximum stat or minimum stat or random stat. Maximum stat occurs when 1 stat is more exploited than another. For example, disregarding Energy, Dexterity, Technology, and Support as much as possible while increasing Strength as much as posible. Minimum stat occurs when no 1 stat is exploited beyond another. For example, Focus-type. Random stat occurs when neither of these conditions are met and this kind of construction is not popular or may be underpowered.

1 issue with diminishing stats is that it endorses minimum stat over maximum stat as diminishing advances. As I have previously stated in "The Focus Trap", stat requirements and diminishing degrade the potential of an extreme stat and that is fine. What is not fine is the effects it may bear on the range of builds. One of this game's strengths and backbone is having player balance. Not 1 player should have an indirect advantage over another player beyond their control as this game is promised to use strategy and that comes from the craftiness of the players... not anywhere else. EpicDuel does need an overhaul for balance that is true, other than that, this game rocks my socks.

Back to diminishing, and Focus... there is a disagreement that as a result affects player balance. Too much diminishing favours Focus and other minimum stat type of builds, too little favours maximum stat type of builds.

I believe that the issue is ultimately with Focus. Focus too may be exploited since it possesses a form of damage output with Robots. Diminishing is a form of limiters that prevent various calculations from overshooting common ground such as if 1 player hit 200 damage when the highest known damage dealt was 100 (figurative). Having limits on damage and the assorted controls how long a match may last, how much of a certain advantage 1 player may have in battle, but most importantly preventing loopholes that players may be able to exploit. I understand that balance is incredibly difficult work and especially if it factors in how much the game is enjoyed thus popularity, and I simply decided to post a suggestion to try to help... so thank you for reading.

I suggest that Focus is changed to become a basic stat since removing Focus would remove variety and affect Robots, while leaving it as it is now would prolong the feud with diminishing. If I ever am able to I will continue this suggestion. Peace to the whole earth and beyond. Thanks again and end.



Renegade Reaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 17:15:06)

a little off the current topic, but w.e.....

on the support stat, it says that support increases rage gain. but i saw a post somewhere about getting rage by dealing damage....
this caters to strength builds [:@] this is another reason why there are so many strength abusers in the game. hunters massacre
( OP compared to other ultimate skills, taken from another post), and the bloodmage class are the main reasons there are so
many strength builds.

@shades that is a great idea to nerf all the strength builds in the game. if this were implemented, the bloodmages with very high
strength, high health, and low defenses would have basically no defense against attacks. kudos on a great post.

@ Mr. Black OP 80 sounds a bit more reasonable

please consider these ideas seriously devs/ mods.

~Reaper



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 17:19:59)

@renegade You get from being hit (a % of the damage goes to your rage bar) and from hitting the enemy(however much their defense reduces your attack by so if they reduce your damage by 50 then you get 50 points). This way you get more rage against tanks. The problem with strength builds is that they get hit with high damage while they also hit through high defenses, thus getting rage faster than a non strength based build. I'd say to make rage more dependent on support or lower the amount of rage you get from taking damage(or just making that more dependent on support alone if possible).



Darkoake445 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 17:24:32)

@ND Mallet, I agree, that's one of the most broken parts of strength builds, like you said they can build rage faster while still doing moderate damage.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 17:29:45)

quote:

Or just making that more dependent on support alone if possible.


*Boom* great idea.

quote:

Support alone.


Edit: this is what I meant to quote. Wait... is Support forever alone?



ReinXI -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/24/2012 18:01:38)

*sigh* I love how I had an entire post on almost the exact thing shades of blue says and no one sees it D:

quote:

yeah but to avoid the inevitable shelling of people from the mods.. I just wont respond!

but yup.. those str BM's they need to be put down a peg or two... or maybe 3? same with CH obviously..

heres my idea for balancing stats... if your stat goes over say... heres an example

strength above 70 ( enhancements included ) your chance to hit drops by 5% for every 10 points more so when they go for that 120+ strength yeah they can hit high but that + -25% chance to hits WILL effect them for obvious reasons

and the same could be for piling up other stats

dex above 70 resistance + -3% per 10 stat points so at 120 thats -15% resist

tech above 70 physical defense + -3% defense per 10 stat points so 120 -15% defense etc etc

support above 70 damage -5% from all sources per 10 stat points

I say 70 because 70 ( or 80 whichever ) seems like a good stopping point as it gives leeway to have more "specialized builds" for people who want to favor one stat over others

as well as leaving it easy to make a balanced build

but if you make it to where piling up a stat to ungodly amounts actually affects you negatively.. well then I bet you will see a drop of people using 60+60 str from enhancements...

and I agree that fireball needs to be switched to support or something.. its really irritating running into double STR Bms in 2v2 -.-


theres the post ._. not exactly the same but probably more balanced due to it not affecting stat points..



theholyfighter -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/25/2012 5:10:59)

Make Static Charge Passive.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/25/2012 5:31:27)

^That would be a bad idea since they can Heal/EMP-loop all over again but only slower .
Now on the nerfing....
I think i had enough seeing more nerfing ( and not buffing ) , so how about buffing the ones who need a buff , then put back the previous skill systems , instead?



ansh0 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/25/2012 5:33:55)

Non varium Ch's are doomed.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/25/2012 5:38:05)

@ansh0
From what? Dealing weak damage against ES and / or high RES/TECH builds?



ansh0 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/25/2012 5:42:08)

@Aegis

Yes, pretty much everything.

Also, I just lost against a heavy mech.

That's how bad it affected non varium CH's.

I used to be able to 4 turn him.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/25/2012 5:47:15)

@ansh0
I see...

Back to the "i wish there were more buffs than nerfs" topic :
Please buff SC more if this is gonna happen , along with buffing of BH & Merc ( not sure about TLM and TM though ).



ForTun3 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/25/2012 8:46:46)

ahhh nooo... not the plasma cannon!!!!

why did we debuff the plasma cannon? it wasn't opd was it?

my build is ruined :( and now i need to get 16 stat point from somewhere to fix it and im lvl 34 almost 35 so im only guna get 4 more which i was guna use 4 hp :( to complete my build...

if you really need to do it can you make it half as bad? so i only need 8 points to get my build back..

is the merc bunker the same? i dont think ether needed a debuff if it is?

like you can get more out of other skills, for me this is my main attack and now it only does 68 dmg was 72... for me to do 40 dmg to a lvl 35 i need it at about 77 80 which plasma bolt and fire ball can reach fairly easly... so yea i dont understand the debuff

is it a case of it getting opd in future levels? but like all skills will rise so wont they all be evenish?

its not like theres many options for the blood mage and it took me days to figure out my build, and yea now im going to have to change it, i spent 6000 credit making it lol alot of mistakes...

guessing some of you havent noticed it yet... but yea base dmg is down by 4...

EDIT: also just noticed if i put the extra 16 point on tec my bot gets the 4 dmg you loose. so its no different really exept for the fact i loose on other stats!
but yea whats the point if the damage is just being passed on basicly...

EDIT: ^^^ thats wrong its worse!!!

ahhhhh i dont like this :/



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/25/2012 8:47:27)

To all Cyber Hunters: it was Plasma Armour that caused this.



helloguy -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/25/2012 9:09:20)

Actually it was all these whiners that couldnt handle the average ch with there build they where using. So whined about it for that reason which it completely idiotic if I do say so myself



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