RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (Full Version)

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Oliver Bell -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 9:05:09)

Infernal android is rather good but it only works well against bosses or two tanks in 2v2, as otherwise you get damage only slightly higher than the gamma bot and you need to wait to get it. Furthermore, if you choose to use this bot you leave yourself open to malfunction and smoke as you dont have an assault bot to counter it. Against bosses is the only time when this bot can really be considered overpowered, but then again so are many bosses.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 9:09:16)

For the Android's special attack:

-Grounding

Whenever the special attack is used, the damage is reset to 75% and increases by 10% each turn up to a maximum of 125% of the Robot's damage.



Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 9:31:47)

Well CHs EMP needs to get replaced, now. Mark my words, they will totally ruin the balance due to the new bot.

More tech - stronger bot and a higher EMP.

I for one dont stand a chance against a CH with EMP, mostly due I'm a Merc which lack the ability to regain energy.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 10:03:42)

^Exactly what I'm talking about -_- CH's are going to get nerfed because of a bot that wasn't even our idea.



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 11:15:51)

CH's needed a nerf anyway.

I agree with Oliver Bell, when I use the bot I get destroyed by strength builds and sometimes tech mages and cyber hunters malfunction if timed correctly.



od -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 11:33:45)

@ Oliver bell
I disagree. Most classes can live without the assault bot, as they already have some form of shields. If you are having trouble surviving str builds, increase your defenses and take a higher level heal. You should be able to survive enough rounds for the special to become much stronger than the gamma bot.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 11:48:04)

^You also should be able to rage with it to for a quick, unblockable 70 damage no matter how much resistance the opponents has :P



Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 11:48:46)

quote:

^Exactly what I'm talking about -_- CH's are going to get nerfed because of a bot that wasn't even our idea.


IF the CH class finally get the nerf that should have happened months ago, I will love the new bot even more [:)]



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 11:52:49)

I do survive long enough but they still survive with enough hp, so of course the bot isn't undefeatable.
While it is possible to survive without the assault bot it helps dramatically by vastly reducing the amount you are at a disadvantage.
Most of the time debuffs take away around 30-35 points in a stat.
If you divide this by 4 which is around the average stat progression it would be around 8 damage less per round.
How much extra damage does the bot do once at rage and quite a few rounds in battle and then take into account how much assault bot helps by looking at your finishing move and you would find that the increasing damage isn't as overpowered as it seems.
2 rounds into battle is when it starts helping
most battles end at around round 5 or to calculate from when the bot is useful...
3x8= 24
Does the bot do 24 more damage then the gamma bot at round 5 or 24 damage more then moves such as massacre, etc?

@King Helios forgot to take that into account :P
30/8= 4
So it would be 12 damage more however moves like massacre do more damage if you perform them both at round 5.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 11:54:24)

Divide it by 8, you can do Physical and Energy attacks in EpicDuel.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 12:38:11)

@Oba It's not our fault that the Dev's made something we could take advantage of so easily. In fact, I don't like how the bot is strong. What if the Devs made a new Club for Mercs that gave + 40 damage, +15 STR +15 DEX +10 Tech + 5 SUPP? Then they put a 14k credits or 500 varium price tag on it, and BAM! All Mercs and TLM's use it. Then the devs go: Oh, since you guys are OP now (even though it has nothing to do with the skill tree), lets nerf Mercs by taking out Bunker Buster and bezerker, and nerf TLM's by taking out Double Cut. Believe me, something like that is going to happens to CH's soon. Also, the CH nerf you're talking about already happened, and it was stated that CH's were the same strength as all the other classes. I'm not saying that we don't need a nerf; I'm saying that if you want to nerf us, you should nerf the bot too. :P



ansh0 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 12:42:44)

Now people think CH is OP cuz of this bot?

What about BM?

You den't even last long enough to get good damage off the bot.

If you do, their 140 hp compensates for it(excluding Bloodlust).


SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE TO THEM.



Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 12:43:47)

@shadesofblue, As I stated in my last post, CH have been OP for months. And if they finally gets a nerf due being x2-OP becuase of the bot, I'm more then happy.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 12:46:44)

Ok, lets say you nerf 5 focus CH's. What happens to the 5 focus Mercs and the 5 focus TLM's? We should nerf the them too.

EDIT: ^Nvm. You're becoming a 5 focus Merc as soon as legion breaks down the vault, so of course you don't want a 5 focus Merc nerf :P xD



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 12:47:46)

Nuuuuu don't nerf me! I'm 15-0 in 2v2! ;D (Legion too!)



Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 12:52:03)

Just becuase one class gets nerfed, dosent mean all classes should. I for one dont beat many CHs as a focus merc, due to EMP. A classh should not be able to take away 30-40 energy from their enemy with a skill that requires 10 energy to use, and then regain it again with a strike (static charge).

Replace that skill with a similiar one with atom smasher/assimilation, and it will become more of a balanced class.

quote:

EDIT: ^Nvm. You're becoming a 5 focus Merc as soon as legion breaks down the vault, so of course you don't want a 5 focus Merc nerf :P xD


I was a 5 focus merc before the war started and Im planning on staying as one. Only build that works for Merc anyway..



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 12:53:33)

^But if the reason that class got nerfed was because of something non-class specific, then all classes who can take advantage of the non-class specific item should be nerfed too.

EDIT: ^And I made my 5 focus CH build months ago before there was any Infernal War, but unfortunately I was not able to use the build because I lacked the varium and the weapons at the time. Now, I finally can get varium to make my 5 focus CH, but then they come out with a OP bot that gets 5 focus CH's nerfed. -_- Can't they at least weaken the bot's Special?



Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 12:55:24)

^ I TOLD YOU in the last 2 posts now, that CH IS OP without the bot. The class was OP before the bot released. The bot has nothing to do with their OP-ness (well, it do increase their OP-ness a little..)

If a focus CH use gamma bot, or this android bot dosent really matter to me. Its their EMP that pisses me off...



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 12:57:31)

^Just a little is quite and understatement. I'm PWNing other level 34's and 35's using BASIC BLADES just because I was able rage bot them.



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 12:59:04)

@shadesofblue
Don't shift the blame of CH's nerf by trying to make it the bot's fault.
You aren't convincing anyone that CH shouldn't be nerfed.
CH's were op before and still are.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 13:03:52)

^I was never trying to convinnve anyone that CH's shouldn't be nerfed. I was trying to say that if CH's are nerfed, the Infernal Android should be nerfed as well. I'm saying why are you guys nerfing us( partly because of the bot) and not nerfing the bot when 5 focus can be run just as well in TLM and Mercs.

EDIT: There's always a class that's OP, no matter how hard we try, we can't prevent that. From what I gather (I wasn't here for Beta) the OP classes/builds were (in chronological order as best as i can remember)
1) Heal Loop TM
2) STR Bounties
3) Support Merc
4) STR TLM
5) STR/Tank Hybrid CH
6)Caster TM
7) STR BM

I know I'm missing a lot of OP build in there, but those are the only ones I can remember. Still, the fact remains: There will always be a build better than all other builds.
So instead of Nerfing OP classes, Maybe we should start thinking about Buff UP classes? Feel free to correct me.

EDIT2: Forgot Caster Mages



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 13:10:48)

quote:

I'm saying why are you guys nerfing us( partly because of the bot)

You are still trying to shift the blame to the bot even before the bot the nerf of CH's was inevitable and BTW you cannot run a 5 focus on Ordinary Merc as well as you can with CH.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 13:12:49)

^Have you tried it? I've seen some really good 5 focus Mercs.



Bunshichi -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 13:17:27)

Juggs are filled with bloodmages and cyber hunters.



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/12/2012 13:21:45)

^But mostly CH's xD We're too tanky :P I want my technican and my static back.

quote:

1) Heal Loop TM
2) STR Bounties
3) Support Merc
4) STR TLM
5) STR/Tank Hybrid CH
6)Caster TM
7) STR BM

I just noticed 4 of these builds have STR in them :P



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