RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/9/2014 9:50:00)

Wasn't this the case since Beta? Even with much lesser P2W advantage back then, the matchup system was always like that. If they hadn't changed it in the past, with higher amount of players online (on average), they won't do it - especially - now with lesser amount of players.

Small steps are only possible ways to do it. Reduce it by -1 level for 1v1 and 2v2, and observe the search times. If they are roughly the same, they can keep it. Then, few weeks/months later, do the same again and see whether search times have been extended greatly (at all levels), or just a little bit.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/9/2014 10:53:33)

I'm going to be blunt about this not meaning to be rude but just blunt.

Ah I guess its ok then because something's been broken since beta it should stay broken. I guess that's why ED is the biggest MMO on the web with the largest player base . 1 lvl would make absolutely no difference.

Longer search times is a issue that would arise however player retention is likely to improve since the game experience would vastly improve with matchmaking and balance fixed. yes there may be a slow few months but the game may start to have a long term future.

Don't fix matchmaking and balance new players will continuously run into a wall of little build choices and unwinnable fights this will happen almost every single battle in certain level ranges making levelling extremely difficult, They are likely to leave - low player retention. How much longer do you want the game to continue in its state really? The numbers playing are heading south everyone knows it.




Mother1 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/9/2014 15:19:56)

^

So in a nutshell the game would be 100% better if we force people to wait a long time sometimes 5-7 minutes for a match just so player will have the illusion that they are in a fair fight when the reality of the matter is it isn't a fair fight even if all the levels numbers match? That is a good one because even with everyone's levels matching there is such a thing call build advantage as well as balance being broken everywhere else as well.

Trust me when I say this that as much as people want fair fights they don't want to wait an a long time for a match as well.

Take a look at what happened to level 38-39's when they cut level 40's player range in one vs one. They hate 1 vs 1 because they get little to no break from level 40's in the game. No only this but balance is so bad that even a 1 level difference at that level isn't that anymore because of the extra ranks legendary players so once they get to this level they do 1 of 3 things

1 quit due to being punching bags
2 run to 2 vs 2
3 (rarely done) just bare with it.

while a game should be balanced I agree it shouldn't be torture to a certain group of players either due to bad balance in other places. While I agree you can't retain players if matches are unfair you can't retain players if the game becomes punishment through balance changes either.

Which is why I say they need to fix all the other problems within the game that revolves around balance as well because at one point in time there has been a time where lower level players with a gap of 2 or higher were able to beat higher level players because more builds were usable.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/9/2014 15:40:33)

^I can break your entire posts logic in a few words.

The world has 4 billion + people in it. at Ed's peak it had around 2k players . now more then 800.

The majority of 800-2000 players may want bad balance and bad matchmaking just to get fast fights.

The majority of 4 billion do not. This game cannot be successful without severe improvements to matchmaking and balance



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/9/2014 15:49:44)

ED doesn't have 4 billion active players, therefore, the severe improvements can be postponed until there's bigger population of players. Small steps at the time until then, not a drastic change such as no level difference in PvP. Matchmaking is dependant on the amount of players, therefore, so are the changes done to it.

Before you bother bringing up something like "if game won't improve, no players will join", that's why small steps have to be done. Do something drastic, and you'll only make it worse - examples include Omega's changes all at once, passives to actives, adding enhancements to two more weapon categories (in Gamma) which has overshot the P2W advantage and harmed balance in the long run.

Also, Mother's post is pretty much based on observation and what Devs have said before - or at least the part about search times.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/9/2014 15:56:03)

Small steps to improve the game ?

And yes your right I would of said no players will join but instead ill use this.

The games been broke since beta. The matchmakings been broke since beta , I cant say alpha wasn't here. Should be fixed fact is rather then improve the game as simply declined. From what ive read over the time the tiny amount of players this game has interested in its current form over the years have largely left / gone incredibly inactive due to just losing faith .



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/9/2014 16:03:23)

@ Noobatron

and look at what drastic changes have done.

Omega itself caused the huge decline of players due to drastic change.

The passive to active change cause players to leave due to such a drastic change

The matchmaking change for level 40's caused players to leave due to this drastic change.

With the track record the staff has with drastic changes I also fear the next one will cause everyone to leave.

The game honestly needs a 100% jenny jones make over (in other words a complete rewrite) from how shields works to the damage of a basic strike. Otherwise the game will never be balanced or as close to balanced as possible.



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/9/2014 16:50:42)

They're using the model: Let's keep going forward even though we got certain things right in the past. I think elements of the past they should bring back are passive skills(w/skill tree re-vamp), re-modified agility, and delta stat progressions.
I have to say removing P2W aspect only improved the credibility of this game in the long run. Making varium a short-cut instead of a direct advantage was smart because time=money.



DunkThatOreo -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/9/2014 19:04:27)

They need to scrap this whole legion vs exile war crap. I honestly prefer the original system where you just battle for the #1 leaderboard spot and donate tokens to flags. That was much more fun than this current system. And yes I know the old system didn't make much sense since this game
revolves around exiles vs legion. yet it was still more fun than this. Maybe they should just scrap the whole exile vs legion altogether? And just have individual factions compete against each other. I guess they would have to make more room in factions if this were to happen as well.

Or maybe separate factions from the actual war between exile and legion?



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/9/2014 19:41:10)

^ Yeah the legion/exile filter has gotta go as much as I love the fights 33+34 vs 37+38 .

Seriously you claim you don't have enough players to lower the level range .

Then you add a filter that makes horrific matchmaking absolutely horrific . *facepalm*



Remorse -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 1:27:19)

I 100% agree with noobatron.


Currently you only have to wait 1-20 seconds for a normal 1v1 fight,

And saying that a slight improvement to matchmaking will make that 5 minutes is a joke, perhaps you guys do not understand the concept of tweaking to fit.


Waiting 1-2 seconds for a broken battle is just not on,

They could implant some sort of system where by the longer you wait the less restrictive the matchmaking becomes meaning if you start to wait for a longer then normal time you will get matched to more like the current standard and therefore stop wait times becoming over say 30 seconds.


The point is they can adjust it to be reasonable.



League of legends has millions of players and they still understand the concept of making sure you are matched properly having waits of up to 3-5 mins in some scenarios.


That just proves that games with proper thinking know how important it is to match people fairly, yes the matches are longer then ED but the concept behind waiting should be the same.




And as noobatron explained as the player base increases due to hopefully a number of reasons but a major one being improvement in the broken matchmaking system then wait times might be even shortened more which may mean they can afford to make the matchmaking even more restrictive allowing even fairer fights.



As their are level number spikes as in a lot of players would be 40 compared to say 39 then they may have to make a matchmaking system that has its restrictiveness determined by the number of players their level online.
This may also have to be the case for different battle modes, of coarse different battle modes have different wait times and therefore would require different levels of restriction, assuming they will be the same is unreasonable to the idea.




After all this the point is, rejecting the idea of better matchmaking on the basis of longer wait times is extremely blunt when all it takes to accept it, is their are endless ways they can prevent wait times being too long and at least make it so the wait times are in a reasonable medium, not too long and not too short.










Mother1 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 1:47:43)

@ remorse

No one here is rejecting better match making. However Noobatron's suggestion for it is being rejected because it is extremely drastic. If you seen all the drastic changes made by the staff none of them ended well.

Omega update = Drastic change that caused a huge amount of players to leave

Passive to active change = Drastic change that crippled most of the classes and put stress on energy due to the previous adding costs to cores.

Match making change for level 40's = Drastic change for level 40's which resulted in many 38-39's quitting 1 vs 1


As you can the staff doesn't have a good track record with drastic changes.

Not only that even with better match making everything else outside of match making is broken as well. Those problems need to be fixed as well because just fixing match making alone will not keep players here especially if there is so little builds that work that they get clobbered by the same overused builds without relief.

Also I know you are using LOL as an example, but LOL =/= epic duel. They are two different games with two different player bases. What can be done for one may or may now be doable for the othe depending on the player base.

Lastly I actually had to wait that long for a fight before and it was just after they made the match making changes so I was posting my experience when I mentioned that.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 2:04:32)

^ Well it is good to know they at least attempted to fix the matchmaking.



Also we shouldn't be discouraging drastic changes,

Sure their history of drastic changes have not led to the best of outcomes but they should keep trying until they get it right.


Personally I think omega was generally good changes with a a lot of minor details that let it down often coming in later then the first release of omega.


For instance releasing the azreal cores, instantly proved their desire to have strong cores dominate balance for a price, after that I lost trust in the devs mindset for omega and what they originally stood for which was equality in battles.




I still however think to save this game a series of drastic changes are required particularly focused on balanced.


And I also think the war is the complete wrong direction for the game,
Using varium in the war is also very silly.





Mysterion. -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 4:22:41)

quote:

You can use your drops for free, or upgrade them to a more powerful form for Varium.

I stopped reading the Notes after that sentence, does that make me a bad person?

EDIT: Read the rest, found a typo over here:
quote:

During the war, you'll also have a change to earn the prestigious War Hero achievement by earning the most influence in a single day!

I assume they mean 'chance', not 'change'.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 9:56:07)

^ The whole greed thing with AE is irritating but its nothing new . It isn't just ED this game is hurting its AE to now. I know I speak for many when I say after what ive seen happen to this game I will never touch a another AE game.

@remorse

Finally someone who gets it.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 10:07:56)

@ noobatron

I have to ask you this. What about players who play at not peak hours when the player population is the lowest? How do you think your drastic change in match making will affect them?

here is a thread that mentions something dealing with a problem indirectly.

The OP of that thread mentions that he has to wait sometimes for 15 minutes for one 2 vs 2 match with the way things are now which is crazy. Image how long players in other times zones where they can't get to play during peak hours would suffer if you cut the level range for match making even more.

I myself have played during those times as well when there are as little as 200-300 players the wait times are the worst here. Throwing in your idea would all but destroy any hope for matches even the game is not at all peak times which is why we should take small steps if anything so those who can't play during peak times and can only play during these times won't get the short end of the stick.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 10:17:21)

^ Yup and they'll keep getting worse you'll be waiting 30 minutes soon if something isn't done. The new players wont stay because of balance and matchmaking. The old players are leaving because of the same old same old.

Way I see it .


They get drastic .

Or omega lives it to its meaning the last phase of ED



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 10:24:48)

@ Noobatron x3000

They did get drastic several times in fast.


Omega phase itself drastic change which made tons of players quit
Passive to active change Drastic change that made majority of the classes harder to player while buffing one
First legion vs exile filter Drastic change that isolated players so badly that they actually had to remove it and retweak it before putting back in.
Changing match making for level 40's Drastic change that caused level's 38-39 to quit 1 vs 1 due to be becoming the punching bags of legendary players with little to no relief.

No offense to getting drastic but the track record for these changes have hurt the game much more than they have helped and this is just in omega.



Noobatron x3000 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 10:41:14)

The game never had "tons" of players to quit .

This is largely due to balance and matchmaking , If the core of the game "pvp" is completely broken offering mismatches and broken builds most will not touch the game.

Omega was a good idea executed poorly they need to drive away the players that think the game as it is is ok . And go much more drastic if they want to ever be big.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 11:39:47)

^ Exactly,


They don't have much to lose anyway for trying because the player base is already pretty low.


And like noobataron said, if players quit because the like they way it is now and don't want drastic changes then perhaps it's for the best.

The game's future in my eyes will be strongly determined by what drastic changes they make and if these changes bring upon a much larger newer player base at the sacrifice of say the people who like it now then it is worth it.



Plus I am finding it hard to actually find anyone who actually likes the exact current version of the game given the games current balance.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 12:01:22)

@ remorse

assuming that your fated outcome is what will happen if the likes of such is done and players have enough faith to say to see it through.

Let's say they "fixed" matchmaking to the point where there is no level gap and everyone faces their own level only. People will get the illusion they are in fair fights, but at the same time with broken balance outside of this the reality of the matter is they aren't. Especially at the level cap since we now have legendary ranks that would make a match up of 4 level 40's not balanced due to one side getting 2 level 1 ranks where another gets 2 20+ ranks.

Which is why I have been stressing that they fix balance issues within the game first. Because if you fix that then FOTW (flavor of the week) builds and classes will no longer exist and all builds will stand a chance of working not just a simple few. Because if you don't fix balance and only fix match making players will quit the moment they see they can't win due to bad balance outside of matchmaking as well as huge wait times outside of that.




The berserker killer -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 14:15:27)

War Prizes for Winning Alignment? But everyones Exile.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 14:25:45)

Good for them. That doesn't really mean they will win for sure. Many RL examples, but if these aren't suitable here, then there's always money to make up for the difference - especially since you can upgrade Bombs with Varium.



Variation -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 16:04:38)

quote:

But everyones Exile.

At level 36-40, just about lol. I hope the developers seriously consider allowing everyone access to the secret war prizes, even if the alignment that lost has to pay a slight fee. If the developers only grant the prizes to the winning alignment, the alignment that loses will become seriously demotivated. Oh look, you now just lost even more players. Just think back to the Frysteland war, I knew a lot of Exile players who completely gave up on the war due to Legion's mega advantage. I see this turning out to be Frysteland War 2.0 except this time Exile will be the one dominating. I really hope the developers put a lot of thought into this war. We can't afford to lose anymore players. Just my thoughts, I really hope I'm wrong because I have a lot of passion for this game.



ConQrR -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/10/2014 16:07:53)

I agree with Variation and if this turns out to be frysteland v2 you'll definitey lose more players.



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