RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (Full Version)

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Remorse -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/12/2014 8:58:26)

^ I never said shut down the game,

And why should I have to explain the necessary arrangements that would be implied to come with either removal or changing of broken cores and robots.


Surely it is implied to compensate, if not they can just change the cores, they have done it before so they can do it again...


Plus it is COMPLETELY your opinion that it would ruin the game.


My opinion is that it already is at an all time low almost to the same level of being shut down, so they need drastic steps to fix it.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/12/2014 9:06:29)

@ remorse

Drastic changes will only work if they cover up the flaws that can come with said changes. Otherwise Drastic changes are worse than band aid fixes.

Almost every drastic change the staff made they forget to cover up a flaw or two.

The passive to active change without adding a way to remove the stress on energy Is a good active example (meaning it happened already)

Or suggestion wise removing the player range to fix matchmaking without adding a way to relieve the stress of long wait times is another example of this.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/12/2014 9:06:36)

Nerf/buff ≠ revamp the core completely.

Also, no, it's not my opinion that it'd ruin the game. It's a fact. If you shut down a business for few months, and open it up again later on, you will lose the customer loyalty and there will likely be competitors. You'll have to - partially - start from scratch and attract new customers again. Likewise with taking something away and not refunding - you're not gonna get a customer to visit your store again (in this case, play ED), because they've paid for something, got what they paid for, and then it was taken away from them - because few people don't like it - or just giving them something entirely different for what they paid for.

Basically "I paid for new Samsung Galaxy S5, why did I get an iPhone 5S!?" in a nutshell.

Arguing facts with opinions won't do any good, because one is neither right nor wrong, and other is always true. You can't refute a fact with an opinion.

quote:

The passive to active change without adding a way to remove the stress on energy Is a good active example (meaning it happened already)

This + putting EP cost on cores. Sure it was a wise balance change, but based on what we see now, I don't think the Devs predicted there will be that much of a stress on Energy, as a resource. It's a good (drastic) change that wasn't executed well enough. I've covered it here.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/12/2014 9:19:19)

@ Mother1,

Exactly, the do need to cover up or at least properly implant many of their drastic changes.


And I agree they can't really change they game without at least fixing these issues.


However fixing these issues can be considered drastic changes as well.



For example the passive to active change did add heaps of stress on to energy.
Sure they could do a band aid fix to improve it (like giving BHs static, though that turned out to worsen balance further)

Or they could risk it on a drastic change to fully resolve the issue such as my stamina points idea.



Also why I mentioned before that they need to either remove or change cores is so they can actually move forward and start adding many creative and variety improving cores such as the Feild medic improving core when on low hp, that is a great core and they should be implementing cores like that.




@ Trans,

Once again I did not suggest they should shut it down...

And also it is NOT a fact,
I have studied many marketing coarses at university and never have they said you should never try to reinvent your product/service if it means losing customer loyalty..



Of coarse you can, it's a risk you take especially if your product/service is on a downward trend which ED is.

Often businesses don't completely reinvent their product/service because that is time consuming and expensive, but they do however make drastic changes to perhaps increase their market power and consumer interest as well as give rise to a new demographic of consumers.



I have no idea where you are getting your "facts" from.


Also once again you say I suggested that they should remove things, WITHOUT REFUNDING!, I never said that stop putting your words into my mouth.



Scyze -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/12/2014 9:21:11)

quote:

you should never try to reinvent your product/service if it means losing customer loyalty.
It's a suggestion, it doesn't mean you have to do it.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/12/2014 9:25:48)

^ Of coarse they don't have to do anything.

If they like the number of their player base.

And are ok with the constant complaint from players then they can easily leave things as they are.



Like wise they can drastically change things if they won't too, and it is not a FACT that it always ends up bad for business...







Mother1 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/12/2014 9:38:02)

@ remorse

While some players hate certain cores, other like them. People as i said several times I find hatching rush to be a stroke of genius. However it would have been much better if they had this when players could still super tank at high levels. You know those builds were you barely do any damage to your opponent, you don't have poison, and by the time you get decent damage they heal it making your work good for nothing?

Yeah it would have been much better outfitted for this time instead of now to be honest.

As for azreal's will and torment those cores I personally wish they never made.

The gun is basically as I call it the turn stealer which basically seals your fate if used right, and the aux core is a 100% rip off of heart attack no originality within this core what so ever. But the point I am getting at is that while some people hate certain cores others like them.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/12/2014 9:51:23)

^ That is true,

And who am I to say what is bad for balance, when I'm only the opinion of myself.



However they whole area needs a lot more variety and counter play to be balanced.


Having a core like hatch-ling rush which is basically uncounterable just shuts of a whole lot of variety in builds..


And that is terrible for balance.


One way they could actually fix this core would be to indirectly make a strong counter,
Similar to how debuffs are countered by the assault bot.


This means they may not be removing the core but they are removing it's dominance and removing the gate to a whole new are of variety if you will.

By adding an effective counter builds that used a strategy shut down by the hatching rush core can now be usable again even if it requires a core/robot to fix it which is fine, just as long as it is possible.




In a seance doing exactly this would be the same as what I was referring to before buy saying they should remove these cores.
Perhaps I should rephrase myself if I may, They should remove overpowered core DOMINANCE, which may be done through creating counter options.


For example Hatch-ling rush is a negative buff in a seance, one thing this game lacks is counter to negative buffs such as the hatcling rush core, the only ones I know of are field medic for poison, and assault buffs for debuffs.


If their was a core that say healed you by a small amount and removed the most resent negative buff, which could include say the hatch-ling rush core, then it would be much less of an issue.
Keep in mind if things can be countered then it comes down to the strategy and timing of the usage of these skills, meaning this won't ruin the hatch-ling rush core, it would merely make timing important.



They also need to add more descriptions of things so it makes it easier to understand what is countered by what etc.

I made a post giving an example on how it could be done, which would allow for future balance improving cores:
http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21579609










Theclown -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/12/2014 11:47:58)

i wont support this game anymore after the eggzooka joke and 6 mounths during boring war bye



Wootz -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/13/2014 17:51:32)

This whole thread went to hell. No wonder the Devs can't improve the game. Due to the player community.



Striker44 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/13/2014 18:18:43)

It's a crazy thing, but how could get influence on new war ? After 12 battles had no influence no bombs no nothing. Must take a break [:@]



Predator9657 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/13/2014 18:23:29)

Try fighting in the war zone?



Wootz -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/13/2014 18:26:54)

@Striker,
When the newsletter screen shows, press the button to join the war. Battle there. I got 273 influence in three battles.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/13/2014 18:40:11)

The influence you get doesn't count towards the war cheevo's from what I have seen. It counts towards your influence towards the war. If you noticed there is no influence bar after the battles.



Striker44 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/13/2014 19:00:43)

I notice that ,but is not fair. Only influence I can get is from the bomb damage ..lol



Chosen 0ne -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/13/2014 19:32:38)

I want to see the limo in game.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/13/2014 19:37:42)

All in all, the revamp of the War is nice - so far - but it's still bad.

  • Needs missions for the story.
    • Rewards are always an incentive from missions
    • Some players want some storyline in the game
    • Overall, gives this War a purpose


  • NPCs need to return, either War-exclusive with lesser chance to drop Bombs OR as partners.
    • Temporary bandaid for broken 2v2
    • May provide a bit fairer match; especially if NPC joining you is tier above you; even if it meant you're stronger than your opponent, the AI is unreliable and may be the bane of you.
    • 100 NPCs a day is still a limit, so War-based NPCs (with Bombs) wouldn't be abusable.


  • COMPLETE removal of Legion vs. Exile filter.
    • Either side will get the Bomb drops anyway, even if it's E + L vs. E + E
    • Faster matchup for more balanced PvP
    • It holds little meaning, now that only Bombs grant Influence.


  • Give more incentives to fight in the War
    • Cheevos are quite nice as a goal, but Influence-based shops would be nice; new Artists could show off their skills and multiple shops could be created for different Influence tiers.
    • Already mentioned Missions, but perhaps missions rewarding "Bomb upgrades"
    • NEW Daily Missions alongside existing ones; one for Arcade Tokens, other for Bombs AND Bomb Upgrades


    I don't really like PvP'ing with the current state of balance, and refuse to change classes, only because BMs can't compete as well as other classes. Alternatives need to be given, to attract players - some are more keen to NPC without any frustration from their allies/opponents, whilst others prefer PvP for whatever reason.



    • Predator9657 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/13/2014 20:09:44)

    quote:

    I want to see the limo in game.


    Go buy one :P

    I hope War missions come out soon though.



    Mother1 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/13/2014 20:59:15)

    @ predator9657

    Hopefully none of them require PVP because right now that is torture if you aren't using one of the overused builds. Hopefully they add NPC to this as well because unlike with the last two wars the wait times being experienced are awful.



    Rayman -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/13/2014 22:49:49)

    Bought 3 Limos For my Rich Alt.



    edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/13/2014 23:03:19)

    no :( can't free ride, need to play at least an hour on all my accs to qualify for mission rewards.



    Remorse -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/14/2014 0:14:31)

    ^ I just wanna say,

    Like I predicted,

    removing loses has not improved creativity at all, it merely has made overpowered and effortless quick kill builds dominate the battlefield.




    All that fighting has merely removed a feature which was important to the competitive players without helping variety or balance at all.



    Variation -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/14/2014 0:34:16)

    War Hero isn't being rewarded at reset. I hope they fix this asap.



    Mother1 -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/14/2014 0:41:19)

    @ Remorse

    You said it yourself sometime ago that people are going to use the most effective way they know of to win. Creativity and diversity will always take a back seat to the all mighty win for the masses. Because let's face why would they be creative at the cost of losing to popular builds when they can use a build that they know works and gets a decent win rate?



    Remorse -> RE: =ED= March 7th, 2014 - Onward to War (3/14/2014 1:21:50)

    ^ Exactly,

    And that was my major argument towards not removing loses.


    And honestly I think they should at least give the option to view them now that we all realize it changes nothing to variety if not worsens it.



    In fact many players are looking at symptoms and trying to solve them when they need to be solving the underlying problem,

    -Low creativity is a symptom
    -High build copy rate is a symptom
    -Low variety is a symptom



    What we need to understand is that solving symptoms does not get rid of the problem.

    And I believe the underlying problem is poor balance and variety restricting factors such as certain overpowered cores and requirements.

    And I also believe if these problems are solved properly then the symptoms will also be relieved or resolved.




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