1st turn advantage


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7/1/2012 11:58:45

kingpowerlord
Member

The advantage the person who goes first is too great because:

1.) They get to smoke, Malf you

2.) They get to attack you

3.) Their warmup for ultimate moves start first

all of these things make it very unfair for the person who starts.
how should we tackle this problem?

AQW

Epic

Post #: 1

7/1/2012 12:04:19

Lord Nub
Member

Easy, higher support gets first turn, if support is the same, 50/50 chance.

Anything requiring strategy though is a no no in these parts as they like everything to be luck oriented thus the minimums on criticals, blocks, and deflects.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 2

7/1/2012 12:04:19

Remorse
Member

This issue has been raised and posible solutions made.

I think one we are likely to see which I have mentioned before and the devs actuly confirmed at one stage as the likely solution is "first turn warm up"

This is basically giving a warm up to certain skills IF you start, however if you're second you can by all means use those skills first.

List of skills IMO that should have a" first turn warm up":

- Fireball
- Plasma Bolt
- Malfunction
- SMokescreen
- Maul

I also think persoanly that if you start the rage you get should be reduced by 50% for the starting turn.
I also think that stunning and critting the first turn of the game should be reduced by 50% chance.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 7/1/2012 12:10:23 >

Epic

Post #: 3

7/1/2012 12:12:01

Killer666
Member

Lord, what are you talking about? This is a Skill based game....

Epic

Post #: 4

7/1/2012 12:40:23

InceptionAE
Member

he's saying that if they made those skills have a 1 turn warmup it'd be more fair. If you can't use malf, fireball, smoke, inti, and the other skills he listed, at first turn. It'd make it more fair. It would mean the only choice you opponent has at first turn is to strike, gun, aux, or bot.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 5

7/1/2012 12:47:21

Mr. Black OP
Member

@remorse
Agree, also you shouldn't be able to crit on your first turn if you go first.

Epic

Post #: 6

7/1/2012 13:17:07

Ez_Ease
Member

I would have to disagree someone will always have to go first, but to your point moves like smokescreen or malfuntion can be
overcome if equiped for it. Plus you failed to mention moves like intimidate or atom smasher. You see how this is going. Technically
speaking if you want things to be fair all moves should a warm up which I am against. There will be times when some gets the drop
on you, have to deal with it and learn a counter for it. Also the person that goes second is still able to use that same move on their first turn.

Epic

Post #: 7

7/1/2012 13:30:41

Teufel Hunden
Member

the funniest part about that whole thing with the 1 warmup thing is that it wud be a warmup for both sides therefore giving them a hit, smoke, hit, mass

while on the other side it wud be hit, take the smoke, hit, mass against...

now you tell me... what is the difference at all? xD

AQW

Epic

Post #: 8

7/1/2012 13:39:10

sylar67
Member

the 1 warmup for malf / smoke is a bad idea , Exemple :
if you strike , then smoke , then strike , you will have a full rage bar if not after massacre you will and you will have him raged on smoke
if you smoke 1st strike strike you get rage too if you rage now massacre wont be on smoke if you massacre you will rage on nothing :) so the 2nd choice is better

Post #: 9

7/1/2012 13:43:03

Remorse
Member

^The point is if they start and use those skills its extremely hard to counter them.
if they cant use those skills at the very start, it gives the opponeent a chance to counter them before they do those attacks.

using skills like intim, atom smash , emp etc at the start should be allowed because they dont force uncounterable unstopable power.

you cant just say DEAL with it when you actuly cannot , all most players can do is hope for luck....

How pathetic, this game is bad enough balance wiese, power build unbeatable without luck when they start is the major tipping point.

Epic	Post #: 10

7/1/2012 14:00:40

Thylek Shran
Member

I think that the first turn bonus from support is now just right.
You just have to raise support if your not happy with going second.
Support still is the weakest stat so I think you should not whine
about high support giving first turn.

However I disagree with the idea to give malf and smoke some warm up
because both skills could often be countered with defensive skills and
passive armors.

_____________________________

v.35.3 (2016-01-23) ~ beam.to/shran

Epic

Post #: 11

7/1/2012 14:07:07

Remorse
Member

^

Azreal bot destryed sheilds.

passive armour simply gives them a faster rage.

Infact if I mangae to get a sheild off them blood mages rage in as little as 2!! turns!!

Making the turn i wasted casting the sheild POINTLESS

because rage is extremely strong.

They are NOT counterable AT ALL thanks to teriable bots made, and enahncements.

the only way to counter them if they start is to hope for luck!!

Also the support imrpoving is fine I agree.
But powerbuilds like STR BMs CAN start and it makes it EXTERMELY unfair.

Epic	Post #: 12

7/1/2012 14:11:42

rej
Member

quote:

Easy, higher support gets first turn, if support is the same, 50/50 chance.

What he said. The more influence Support has on first strike, the more we can ignore its other massive shortcomings.

_____________________________

It is difficult to enjoy your cake when your pants are on fire.
~Dragon of Time

AQW

Epic

Post #: 13

7/1/2012 14:15:53

tgod
Member

First turn should be if you are lower than 3 levels you should go first.

Epic

Post #: 14

7/1/2012 14:42:00

Thylek Shran
Member

quote:

They are NOT counterable AT ALL thanks to teriable bots made, and enahncements.

So there is no point in giving warm up to malf and smoke because its not the problem.
Fireball definetly should get nerfed. Making it based on support or so.

< Message edited by Thylek Shran -- 7/1/2012 14:43:03 >

Epic

Post #: 15

7/1/2012 14:57:26

Ez_Ease
Member

Smoke can be countered in two ways the most obvious is with an assult bot which also takes care of malfunction,
but you can take care of smoke by using intimidate if the person has a high strength output and low aux damage.

I agree super high strength builds are very hard to beat even when I use intimidate, I fought one BM
that was capable of doing between 24 to 30 points of damage even with my 30 plus points in defense
and resistance. It is hard to recover when they go first. All in all I still try to find a way to beat them.

Epic	Post #: 16

7/1/2012 14:58:57

sha 2nd mage
Member

Warm up of malf and smoke will spoil the game,and it will make the game worse.

Support should go first. !

I Vote for support !!

Epic	Post #: 17

7/1/2012 15:19:39

friend18
Member

Support should have more importance in first turn strike.

In response to complaints about smoke/malf, BRING ALONG RUSTED/ASSAULT BOT! That's it. That's all you need to bring along. Problem solved.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 18

7/1/2012 21:33:28

The Game
Pegasus Overlord

This belongs in the =ED= Balance Discussion thread.

~Locked

AQ	Post #: 19

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