The Mage Skill-Tree (Full Version)

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Snaipera -> The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 11:49:27)

Hey guys , me again . I know , I know , "this again?!" . Well , sorry , I feel like there's more there is to be said sooo here I go .

This topic is about the right half of the Mage class' skill-tree . The place where the "spells" are situated . Though effective at lower levels , at high levels those spells are .. well a joke . Not only do they hit less than the unblockables or the normal strike (sometimes) , they also consume enormous amounts of energy .

Let's start with plasma bolt , the pure damage skill , does not ignore defenses , nor does it give you any chance to land a critical strike . Consumes up to 33 energy and requires a lot of strength . Not only that , but it also improves by every 4 technology . Technology is the stat ,which right now is the Mage's enemy . (at least that's how I see things) . This skill can hit a good amount of damage , but not good enough to be worth the 33 energy cost it has . It's merely going to do any damage .

Here we come with Overload : This one is actually a good skill. Works good with tanking builds , though in order to be effective , it requires a massive 25-ish energy . Compared to the equivalents , maul and stun grenade , this one is actually equal to both of them , seeing that maul is blockable and stun grenade improves with technology . However ,here's the BUT . It requires a staff to use.

Now follows Plasma rain . Improving also with technology . It improves by every 5 technology if I'm not mistaking . This is quite frankly the worst and most useless skill in the game . Not only does it consume 32 energy (in 1v1 ; 44 in 2v2) but it also does less damage ,does not ignore defenses , etc,etc . The only comparable to it skill , by means of uselessness , is multi shot from the Bounty hunter's skill-tree . HOWEVER , again , plasma rain requires a staff , and we all know how costly the requirements for class-specific weapons are .

Supercharge , the worst of all 3 "ultimate" moves . Comparing it to Massacre is a no contest , we've all seen what massacre is capable of . Comparing it to Surgical Strike is also a no contest . Surgical strike not only ignores resistance , it also steals health , reduces rage AND does not require a class specific weapon .

The first 3 skills are a must in any Mage build ,seeing that they're needed to unlock the Deadly Aim skill . So here's what I suggest :

-First , switch the places of Assimilation and Deadly aim in the skill-tree . This would make sword-using Mages less "crippled" in terms of skill points .

-Remove the staff requirement for Plasma rain and Overload . Those two's equivalents in the other skill-trees do not require class-specific weapons , so why should these?

-Last ,but not least , give Mages some physical staffs , it's time to see some variety in Mage's builds , and perhaps some equality .



Well , that's all folks . I do not wish to entitle anyone with my opinion , I'm just stating facts here . If you do not agree , you can always try the Mage class for yourself and see if I'm lying in any of my paragraphs [:)]



voidance -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 11:58:05)

Let me put my thoughts in, First of all, switch DA with Supercharged and make it connect to Reroute. Second We need a 25% Critical skill like the other classes, Third they need to add Resistance Ignore to Plasma Rain so people are more encouraged to use it, Fourth Hell yea Mages need a nice selection of Physical staves, Fifth make the energy part of Assimilation unblockable so its not so useless at times, Lastly either buff or lower the energy Req for Super charged because its just GARBAGE atm. Did i miss anything?



TurkishIncubus -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 12:03:18)

I agree Plasma bolt , Supercharge and Plasma Rain is totaly joke skills but Overload is a great skill and dont need any buff.

Asim should be able to use with sword and Mages need physical primary and Deadly aims place is fine its a strong skill and you need to lose some skill points to use it.While i was mage i had 2 skill points for nothing i gived them to technician :P you just need to do more good build

And massacre is not much strong skill , its useless against high def and it can not be used with rage , i think Berserker is stronger skill but its blockable.



Calogero -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 12:06:06)

Hi Snaipera :p

anyway, I think the spells need to be Staff only ( Spells with swords, it just doesn't look right ) I still think Assimilation needs to be Sword instead of Staff to give mages that little push to those that want Assimilation in their build but not with staffs.

Physical staffs? Agreed

change Deadly aim with Assimilation, wouldn't bother me, I never max out a skill so i'd pretty much end up with the same build



voidance -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 12:15:29)

If Physical staves were released, i do believe Sword Mages would become a rare breed.



Light Stridr -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 12:15:49)

Animation-wise, plasma bolt can be easily adapted to be used with swords, but overload and plasma rain will need to be modified before we can use them with swords.
Personally, I'd move asim to where supercharge is, to connect to reroute, DA below malf, and supercharge connects to reroute.

And voidance,
you don't often see sword bounties, though sword mercs are more common due to the easy transition for most of the skills.



EE -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 12:16:24)

I'm tempted to start jumping on my sofa these ideas are all great. It would be nice to see the mage class revamped so that we can see more variety at higher levels. I think it's sad that caster mages just don't really do well (they flat out fail) at higher levels. The spells don't need to be OPed to be fun again, but they are in a desperate need of a buff. I've tried using Overload again because my build has higher dex and just for kicks and giggles, but I still feel like plasma rain is useless as a skill and plasma bolt is right there with it.



voidance -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 12:26:40)

To me the most plausible Caster spell being converted to a sword would be Overload seeing as its Lightning, and as grow up when i was younger you would see stuff like this on Cartoons. So animation wise i would prefer Overload get converted.



zenix -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 12:47:39)

*supported*



Cookielord12 -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 12:54:30)

asssimilate should steal more. compared to EMP and atom smasher it is pathetic. level 1 assimilate does 1 energy, 1 EMP does around 20, atom smasher (varies in weapon strength) so good str or good wep = good energy steal.

conclusion: increase assimilate to 10 steal level 1, same progression 20 steal level 10



Luna_moonraider -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 12:57:52)

i agreed asimiliation really needs a buff. the devs need to make more phy staff and remove the kinda useless support requirment on da which actually does nothing. buff super charge which has been usless since idk they nerfed it in alpha. well those are my opinion. oh n overload should change to s sword stunning skill.



voidance -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 12:58:58)

Nah thats too Oped, maybe 2 energy steal at level 1 and increase by 2 every level.


@below
I just dont see how you think they are gonna make level 1 take 10 and increase by 1 thereafter, all you would see is Mages using level 1 Assimilation.



Light Stridr -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 12:59:09)

quote:

asssimilate should steal more. compared to EMP and atom smasher it is pathetic. level 1 assimilate does 1 energy, 1 EMP does around 20, atom smasher (varies in weapon strength) so good str or good wep = good energy steal.

conclusion: increase assimilate to 10 steal level 1, same progression 20 steal level 10


This is something that has been long contested.
I support.



Deadly PoisoN -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 13:07:15)

The mage class is the only 'balanced' class in epicduel,very delicate.You can either buff this class and make them way too powerful or you can make a change which in turn will make them weaker.In all honesty,the only opponents i like fighting is a well equipped founder mage.Or just any mage that knows what the heck he's doing.Normally they pwn me with like 50-60 hp left if they play their cards right,but most mages die to me quite simply because of a lvl 4 energy shield.

Normally that renders them helpless while you can fire energy attacks at them if they have a strong matrix.But mages need a change,something fresh,maybe supercharge needs to be lowered in warmup and recover a percentage health,could be their new weapon like mercs have stun.But overload is a brilliant skill,iv'e nearly died to mages that rage overload stun or overload stun and then rage.




PumKing -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 13:38:30)

^this is not enitrely true, I think you may have confused balanced with most constrictive.

Mages have taken hit after hit, and quite frankly they need some help, assimilate definitely needs to not be staff required, no other of the new abilities from the other classes requires it, and as for it being inappropriate or wierd for spells to come with swords, thats just sill, there are such things as enchanted swords, and to put my best example, He-Man, "by the power of greyskull, i have the power", then BAM lightning comes down, now that is totally overload right there, but one of the real problems with all the damage dealing abilities that mages have is that they basically REQUIRE the builder to incorperate reroute into there build unless they only want to pull off one mp using attk the entire match, what need to happen is that pretty much all mage abilities need to be lower by 15 to 25% for their mp cost that way they become more viable, and a max reroute wouldn't be required to p[ull off multiple big "spells"



Luna_moonraider -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 13:59:19)

@Deadly PoisoN
nope they are not balanced they have too many skill which need staff and did i mention sc is useless since the nerfed it during alpha. now lets compare sc,mass and ss. SS minuses rage and have the same effects as sc. mass do loads of dmg comparde to sc.




Cookielord12 -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 14:11:45)

also massacre regains health because you must have blood lust to use it



EE -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 14:29:28)

Yeah, I wouldn't say we're "balanced" since most high level builds are pretty much the same build with minor tweeks. What do most people see when you face off against a high level mage? Malf, zooka, gun, bot, heal (not in any particular order) because that's the only viable option we have. Malf to zap energy defense then spam any hard hitting energy attacks we have that don't drain MP. Right now, we have plenty of unblockable energy skills on the right side, but they aren't really viable because of their MP expense. I have to agree that the skills just need to be looked at so that we have that option to go caster mage with a decent of success rate.



Deadly PoisoN -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 14:55:31)

I meant that mages are balanced compared to the other classes,hence the '...'.Bounties can overturn a match way too well while mercenaries can control an entire match from the start to the end if they know what they're doing and have the correct skills to boot.Mages have no fightback other than their overload as a last resort move.

Mages need physical staves,but i'm probably going to buy me another 10k pack in 3 months time,should be fully settled then,thank god 'm moving to a 1st world country where the currency can compete with the US dollar and then i can actually play this game the way it's meant to be played.I'm primarily going to use that pack to build a mage character,their my favourite after a bounty hunter.I had a merc and i hate free wins,don't want my wins handed to me.



EE -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 15:00:14)

Alright, I can respect that. Unfortunately, I have this nagging feeling the Dev's will give us only the physical staves and not do anything with the skills for a while. I hope that is not going to be the case, but it always seems the next Holiday Rares!!! take priority. I'm just glad they have made tweeks to the stats, but those skills man...



Jacktaz -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 15:11:12)

Im not a mage but i completely agree. i use to be a mage but i changed because well... realy mages are going down hill. bountys are just nuetral. and merc's well ugh they may have stopped str builds a little but yet they rage on.
but back to subject.
your ideas our very good and i think we should recommend this to nightwraith and see what he does.
but gladly i want more of a challange against mages because when they are in battle i think it is easy.
GL mages and i hope you get buffed.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 17:49:22)

Caster builds work in 2v2 to remove some luck but in 1v1 it really sucks also against NPC's its pretty worthless so thats 1 out of 3

but my main support is Assimilate should be a sword or staff move and be a tab bit stronger becuase 10 energy on a blockable move is a joke



EE -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 18:28:42)

You're right. I put in 2 points for assimilate for those merc and bounty builds that depend on the exact right amount of MP to get their "Big Hits" in, but for anything else it's not really useful. I did rock a maxed assimilate build at one point, but I realized that when I fought other mages I was at a real disadvantage because of their high level reroute. If the amount of energy taken was a percentage tied to a stat or damage, but I guess that would be too much like reroute in a way. I see so much potential in the skill, it just needs some serious tweaking.

I probably wouldn't make the skill unblockable simply because it would get spammed pretty bad and then it would get nerfed. Taking 10 points of MP away every time sounds fun, but then the other classes would complain like mad, especially when you can use the skill 3 or 4 times per match.



Nebula -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 19:09:31)

Imo, here's what I think should be done:

Like someone said before, switch Supercharge with Deadly Aim then make Deadly Aim connect with Reroute, but also make Assimilation not require a staff and make the energy drain unblockable or have a very high chance to hit ( if it has a 100% chance people may see it as too powerful and argue that Atom Smasher isn't unblockable, even if it takes away only little energy, but unblockable energy drain would be good ) and have it connect with Reroute.
Give Plasma bolt a 20% resistance ignore and a 25% crit chance so it is an energy bunker buster. Give Plasma Bolt a 25% resistance ignore ( before anyone says "OMG THAt'S NOT FAIR ARTILLERY ONLY IGNORES 10% DEFENSE," Plasma Rain can be weakened with debuffs and it takes much longer than Artillery to power up ( increasing damage with every 5 tech has a big effect over time )). Buff the damage of Supercharge and give it 40% resistance ignore and 20 - 30% life stealing ( would make it more useful if it does more damage ).

People will disagree with that, and some of my ideas are probably for the worst, but the mage skill tree definitly needs to be improved. The weak skill tree caused Heal Looping, since mages had no other choice ( plus, you know, it owned =p ) so its only right to make it better now that Heal Looping is destroyed.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The Mage Skill-Tree (4/12/2011 19:25:51)

i would like the mage skill tree to change and put deadly aim connected to reroute, i hate having to waste 2 points.
AND WE NEED PHYSICAL STAFFS.



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