RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (Full Version)

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.Sir Lazarus. -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/7/2011 9:58:38)

Secrect meeting about deathspawn? Dont worry hes not that important xD



PivotalDisorder -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/7/2011 10:01:57)

hell hath no fury like a women scorned ^^



DeathSpawn -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/7/2011 11:27:57)

Lol IKR haha. Sorry peeps I'm not here to make friends. The truth hurts and I don't sugar coat it :)

quote:

A mode is not unbalanced just because you can't always win.


Yep exactly! The mode is everything it was meant to be. There are tons of players that enjoy 2v2 the way it is and have posted so. Just because these peeps aren't as active and spamming the same posts on multiple forum accounts doesn't make it any less true.

A 2 level difference isn't what I have a problem with anyway. That wouldn't do crap for anyone and those that think it would obviously have no experience at this game. Also some of us can beat two full varium 33's with that 28 with just a primary and it's not a concern. If you don't bother working with your partner or at least trying to then that's your problem.

I have a problem when you come in here trying to completely change this epic mode with ally link. That has no place in team battles and is ultimately a new mode altogether. You want Angels reason for posting? She can't win 2v2's because there's no NPC'S! It requires ACTUAL strategy! Isn't that something.....strategy....I know that's tough for some of you.

With Ally Link she and you other fools with a low amount of 2v2's played could rock an amazing ratio fighting side by side pwning these noobs who have no full 33 varium friends. Hows that fair to them?

2v2's a place where Varium and Non-Variums can come side by side and fight together no matter the odds and it's the only reason some of us play this game due to its unpredictableness. If you don't like it because you can't win then don't play!

Oh and lets not forget a TON of nons play 2v2 hoping for a great partner to work with and finally get a win since 1v1's are loaded with variums and they can't win alone. If they can't ever win you honestly think they would keep playing this game? It takes both Varium and Non's alike to keep this game alive.

Cheers Lord Nubsack Far above any on the 2v2 leaderboard and that's fact! ^^ Hows that for under the skin?



Callisto -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/7/2011 11:40:24)

I knew you were going to quote that...obviously that's only thing you read isn't it?Cause I read it all and even Ashari saw problems in it.
Did you see the ratio on 2vs2 leaderboards?They have never been so low in the ed history,some of the best players don't have over 60%.Do you dare to call them bad?

Nobody said always win but nobody should be in a situation to fight two fully equipped lvl 33 varium players with low lvl non varium player.Trust me,not even you would win that.I am fine with losing a battle as long as it was fair,good fight.Fight that needs skill,not luck.Also suggestion is that lvl difference should be lowered to 3,not 2.And not new battle mode,not ally link,nothing complicated.I can understand how you don't see the difference...but many do.

So far at least 5-6 best 2vs2 players of all times posted here,saying 2vs2 is unbalanced and needs change.They do know the best.I just wonder how many more will take for devs to actually listen.

quote:

Cheers Lord Nubsack Far above any on the 2v2 leaderboard and that's fact!
-ROFLMAO



edwardvulture -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/7/2011 11:41:54)

I used to have a 220 win to 30 lose ratio on my new merc. (POW3R)(linked on my char page) Experience could really pay out for low levels. After level 25, nothing could save you, you fight a level 30 varium tact merc with the tesla and delta maul, your screwed, 0% win chance is achieved. If you ask me, the devs have to seriously lower enhancements and make credits easier to farm for f2ps, and maybe a noob armor quest. Then there will be some balance. The problem is not the noob partner, its the noobness that the game forces f2ps to take.



.Sir Lazarus. -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/7/2011 13:26:32)

lol this deathspawn character is such a dork. xD



MirageD -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/7/2011 16:20:11)

^^...ikr ???.....who is this person???



I am Primal -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 4:32:25)

2 vs 2 does need to be fixed and if you don't think it does lord nubsack (lame name btw) u obviously get the lvl 33 full varium on your team and rarely the noob. thats the only reason i can think witch makes you think 2 vs 2 is balanced. and everytime i vs you, you always get the far better partner.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 6:03:30)

Please read this (so the last 15 minutes of my life won't be wasted :P)

So basically, these are the problems with 2v2

1. Lower-leveled teammates, which are too weak in comparison with the opponents to be of much or any help

2. Running/Disconnecting

3. Varium VS Non-varium disparity

4. Lag

5. (please reply if there are any other problems that I have missed out on) (BTW DeathSpawn and devs are not relevant problems XD)

Currently the suggestion (here) is:

1. Lower the level range from 5 to 3

Now:

1. I think the current suggestion is quite reasonable, and despite the lingering problem of having a lower-leveled partner, a level 30 partner is significantly stronger than a level 28 one, in terms of skills, stats, weapons, builds and most importantly experience.

Of course, we could take it further and make all participants in a 2v2 battle the same level (level range 0). Since problem 1 is perhaps the greatest problem in 2v2, this rather extreme suggestion would eliminate the problem entirely, and while it is not unthinkable I think it would certainly take much fun out of 2v2. Thus with the example of this extreme alternative, I contend that level ranges are a necessity.

I have, though, a better solution (in my opinion). In 2v2, no player can team up with another player of his level. Does this seem fair? Of course, this should ideally be implemented in conjunction with smaller level ranges.

2. Not much we can do here. Maybe punishing players such that they would have to wait for a significant period of time (maybe 1h?) before they can log in again. This would take up much more of the runners' time than they would save by fleeing, and wouldn't really be too great a punishment for the unfortunate disconnectors.

3. Again, not much to be done here. It would require a re-evaluation of the value of varium to solve this problem. However the solution to problem 1 should help reduce this by quite a large extent.

4. Titan solved it :D



Minus123 -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 6:07:38)

quote:

Also some of us can beat two full varium 33's with that 28 with just a primary and it's not a concern. If you don't bother working with your partner or at least trying to then that's your problem.


Well, that's just thinking about yourself again. If you can beat two full var 33's with a noob partner, doesnt mean everyone else can too. So pretty much when you posted this, you're saying all the non var's on the team of the lvl 28 should just quit playing 2 vs 2?






Callisto -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 6:50:14)

@Minus it is not possible to win.I am full varium lvl 33 and I got lvl 28 mage with only primary against two lvl 33 full varium tac mercs.My partner died in the first round.DeathSpawn is just pretending to be better than everybody else...he doesn't realize it just makes us laugh.

@Silver Sky I read it all and I agree,solution is quite simple.Just lower the lvl gap to 3.

As for players not being able to team up with same lvl...Not a bad idea but I don't think it would be necessary if the lvl gap actually gets lowered to 3.It would make searching for battle just a bit longer and possibility to be paired with other faction members pretty much impossible since for example,everybody in my faction is lvl 33.

As for punishing runners,1 hour seems bit too long.Sometimes you can get disconnected or the battle could fail...I think the punishment should be maybe 15-20 min.Not from logging in,but from entering another 2vs2.
Also good idea would be,if somebody runs,the order of attacks to be changed.(For example,1-opponent 2-you 3-opponent 4-you etc...)



Luna_moonraider -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 6:58:54)

Influence gained by 2v2 faction to be INCREASED

yes i have even placed this in the suggestion thread and yet the devs are still ignoring 2v2 faction woohoo let the 1v1 faction own 1v1 and win wd easily. this is also a problem because if u want to get wd u have to play 1v1 or NPC. 1v1 and npcing takes up time to do 2v2. so while a 1v1 faction can just kill 2 birds with 1 stone and get 1v1 medal+wd a 2v2 faction cant do that they cant kill 2 birds with 1 stone as they cant do so well in 2v2 as the need to npc in order to win world domination.


Calculations for the current battle reward system

number taken Monday 8 august 2011 6.50 pm Singapore/Philippine/Malaysia time which is roughly 7.50 am est.

1v1 daily faction leaders for today: GUAPS
1v1 wins:700 wins

2v2 daily faction leaders for today: Xx SuPErIorsssS xX
2v2 wins:167 wins

now lets times the numbers by 5

influence gained: 3500

influence gained:835

compare the difference:2665(wow wait till u see the number at the end of the day 2v2 faction get pawned in getting influence)

look how much more a 1v1 faction can gain by just playing 1v1. ok u guys might say this is not accurate ok i will use Ed world for gamma record the most 1v1 wins and the most 2v2 wins.

DSX:11,232 1v1 wins

KOTR:1918 2v2 wins

DSX influence gained:56510

KOTR influence gained:9590

difference:46920

This clearly shows the unfairness of 1v1 faction and a 2v2 faction. note that 2v2 are way longer compared to 1v1. if u guys call this fair idk what the hell is fair.

~luna moonfang 13



Rocky007 -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 7:48:04)

Lol deathspawn aka lord nub aka lord nubshack etc... is very similar to angels holocaust, they both take winning extremely seriously!
How come every one else who enjoys ED got involved in this confrontation between the 2 so called best players of ED =P
Most players recommend that the lvl gap should be lowered to 3, but this will make 2vs2 extremely tough for some really good players lol
they will incur losses and might get frustrated eventually.. the other idea of ally link, lol thats ludacris! by the way angels im up for it anytime anyday =P
These arent solutions to 2vs2.




Callisto -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 8:32:41)

quote:

Most players recommend that the lvl gap should be lowered to 3, but this will make 2vs2 extremely tough for some really good players lol These arent solutions to 2vs2.

Can you explain how you came to this conclusion?
So far GOOD players have posted here and said it's a good idea.I don't see where you're coming from with that statement.



MrBones -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 8:53:03)

Well they could start by reducing it to a 4 level difference. I don't see how this would be complicated to implement or code. Let's try it for a couple weeks and see what happens. I see no harm in that.


As for punishing runners (like Angels) I am all for it, but I can't see how this could be done. Some players just get D/C for legitimate reasons and are NOT running on purpose. I guess they could add a D/C stat in the item menu where you could see how many times a player got D/C (under the wins/lose stats).

Maybe a 5 minutes delay from relogging each time a D/C happens would be fair.



DeathSpawn -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 11:03:24)

quote:

So far GOOD players have posted here and said it's a good idea.


Awwww did someone disagree with you on what a good player is? Maybe some peeps don't believe in button mashing wins to make a player good?

@Luna, 1000000% agreed on influence. I don't understand why they did it this way to begin with... Wonder what their reasoning was....

@Minus, So your saying you won't have the same issues with a 30 as a 28? You will still have a 30 non and 33 v fighting two 33 v. 30 non 33 non vs two 33 v and every other outcome that is exactly the same as now. In the end it all depends on the partner. Not the level. There's no fixing a player who never takes their turn or dies in one or two hits. All you can do is your best and never give up which is also what makes the outcome that much more exciting and IMO 2v2 the best mode in ED.

@Primal, Dude you rock some of the worst copycat builds I've ever seen in this game bro. Dare say you don't copy because I surely remember beating you a few weeks back with my str build and 5 minutes later you were a poor imitation. As far as me always having the varium partner I lol at that. My chances are the same as anyone elses bud just like roulette. It may hit black 20 times in a row and make that sucker 80% black and 20% red but eventually it will even out and even go the other way. Percentages are the same here.

@MrBones, Sure they could try the 4 thing but I'm tellin ya it won't make a difference. Why not concentrate on having DC's fixed? Say they did implement this 3 level thing. Guess what it's even harder for the player that gets left alone from the start now. Think energy would be better spent on fixing DC's first but that's my opinion and were all entitled to it.



Callisto -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 11:28:03)

quote:

Awwww did someone disagree with you on what a good player is? Maybe some peeps don't believe in button mashing wins to make a player good?

Actually no,so far nobody but you.And I know few who do ''button mashing'' but I didn't name any.
quote:

So your saying you won't have the same issues with a 30 as a 28?

Exactly what we're saying.Lvl 30 is much more experienced,has better gear and some are even varium.
quote:

every other outcome that is exactly the same as now

No,it won't be exactly the same.That's the point.
quote:

Guess what it's even harder for the player that gets left alone from the start now.

Reason anybody gets alone from the start is cause of unfair fights.People see they've lost already and the run so they wouldn't waste time.
quote:

Why not concentrate on having DC's fixed?

It's already fixed.If you're getting dc-ed maybe your pc needs fixing,not game.
I'm surprised how little you know about 2vs2.You either really know so little about it,you cannot see how broken it is or you're posting here just to tick everybody off.



DeathSpawn -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 12:17:08)

quote:

Guess what it's even harder for the player that gets left alone from the start now.


Reason anybody gets alone from the start is cause of unfair fights.People see they've lost already and the run so they wouldn't waste time.

quote:

Why not concentrate on having DC's fixed?


It's already fixed.If you're getting dc-ed maybe your pc needs fixing,not game.
I'm surprised how little you know about 2vs2.You either really know so little about it,you cannot see how broken it is or you're posting here just to tick everybody off.


It's quite obvious your stuck on flamming and have no intent of discussing the subject. I mean read that again.

A player that disconnects at the start before it even says a players turn is 99% because of cancelling the match or it failing to start. That was my discussion had you read it without intent to ONLY find a reason to flame. I've yet to see you post anything to back up your statements.

Everytime you post it is either total flame or based on groundless statements like "Oh the best players agree it needs to be fixed".

I have come back time and time again explaining things and you can't prove them wrong so you post groundless statements with a community providing further groundless statements making you the popular one.

I'll use an analogy I posted in another thread. Just because 5 people say the world is round and 500 say it's flat doesn't make it flat. Pick up a history book and reference that one if need be.



I am Primal -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 12:26:22)

umm dude i never copy builds i always make my own i may have similar builds but i have different skill tree and slightly different stats one thing i have never ever ask for is a build. so your logic is wrong yet again.



Callisto -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 13:32:34)

quote:

Just because 5 people say the world is round and 500 say it's flat doesn't make it flat. Pick up a history book and reference that one if need be.

Actually it's the other way round and majority is right.That's how laws are made,by proving statements.
quote:

It's quite obvious your stuck on flamming and have no intent of discussing the subject.

I am discussing the subject,you are the one flaming and ticking everybody off.Do you see anybody here complaining about me?Exactly
quote:

A player that disconnects at the start before it even says a players turn is 99% because of cancelling the match or it failing to start. That was my discussion

This is discussion about 2vs2 BALANCE,not lag or dc problems.You're in the wrong topic.
quote:

I've yet to see you post anything to back up your statements.

Everything I post has reasons and explanations.If there is something you didn't get,feel free to quote me and I'll gladly explain again,just for you.
quote:

I have come back time and time again explaining things and you can't prove them wrong

Actually you didn't explain anything.All you did is say ''NO,IT'S BALANCED,YOU ARE ALL HORRIBLE''(not in exact words but pretty much how it looks)
And everything I said so far,proves you wrong.Take some time to actually read and try...try hard to understand what this topic is about.
I don't care about ''popularity''.I am one of oldest players here and people know me as one of few 2vs2 mages.I am here cause I fight for what I love and want to see get improved.Why are you here?To prove us ALL wrong?So far,you've proven nothing.I still don't understand what you're even doing in this topic.



Minus123 -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 20:42:46)

@ Death

I was only quoting 1 part of your post. All I was saying in my post was IF (Which is not possible unless you have extreme luck) some of you can win in that scenario, sure as hell non var's wouldnt stand a chance. And ofcourse you wouldnt for a fact, since i just went up against you a couple of hours ago.

quote:

If you can't get past it or don't have interest, then play another mode.


See, this post was a previous post of yours. What this is telling me is, since you dont have a problem with the mode, they shouldnt change it, even if the majority of the community and the people who have the most experience with 2 vs 2 wants it to change.

And as for having a lvl 30 than a 28, i'd take that any day. Like callisto said, they have more stats, better weapons, and more experience.



Angels Holocaust -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 22:27:39)

I wonder what happened to my beautiful thread? Let me say something of personal experience. Anything that you have no control over is not worth doing. 2 vs 2 is one of those things, it's as unpredictable as the lottery. 1 minute you can be the greatest player in the world, 5 minutes later, you could end up losing 10 games in a row.

I appreciate the fact that the all time 2 vs 2 players have posted their arguments inside this thread. 2 vs 2 is a problem, it's a disease that needs to be fixed once and for all. I remember fixing 2 vs 2 was on the to do list in early beta, they talked about allowing us to select our partners and whatever happened to that? It was probably deemed too hard.

I hope that more and more people decide to post in my thread, this mode is undeniably distressful and not fun for the players of this game.



redxtra -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 22:44:35)

^agreed
like 2v2 used to be fun but now its like impossible to et a good match like it might just be impossible that all 4 players are lvl 33 (that would be an epic battle)



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 22:46:27)

Wow what has happened here? Some kind of all out war between Callisto and her friends and Deathspawn? Well at least you guys are kinda on topic by dicussing 2 vs 2.
@Deathspawn Anyway I dont wanna get involed in this whole arguement but Deathspawn really your just here to flame. If everyone is argueing with you and just you what does that say? I dont hear anyone else argueing with each other. Your just putting other players down and they came back to defend themselves. I think it is best if you just stopped posting here. You clearly show you are here to say you dont want change to the balance of 2 vs 2 and dont understand 2 vs 2 as some other players do(Callisto). So you should just stop this arguement you are clearly losing and resort to flaming for a last defence. Like another player did a while ago.



DeathSpawn -> RE: Seriously Fix 2 v 2 (8/8/2011 23:06:48)

quote:

hat this is telling me is, since you dont have a problem with the mode, they shouldnt change it, even if the majority of the community and the people who have the most experience with 2 vs 2 wants it to change.


That's an arguable statement. As I stated earlier a 70% win rate is in no way better than a player with an 83% win rate. That 13% is huge when you get into large numbers like that. Add it up and you'll see. ALSO the only reason I went into that to begin with was Callistos post acting like everything she said was gold because of the players she mentioned earlier who ALL have HORRIBLE ratios.

Find where I said I was against the level change? I was fighting ally link which has no place in team battle. I could careless about your level change but your wasting your time there. The concentration should be on what really affects a 2v2 match.

Disconnects!

Some players don't understand that's the real killer of this mode. If your partner DC's then guess what, your all alone. How's that level change helping you then? It just got far worse because now you have NO chance of being set up against a 28 non to take out quickly in that scenario giving you a chance in that 2v1.

quote:

Just because 5 people say the world is round and 500 say it's flat doesn't make it flat. Pick up a history book and reference that one if need be.


Actually it's the other way round and majority is right.That's how laws are made,by proving statements.


Callisto you have a lot to learn about real life. Enjoy this forum life and fairy tale in your head while you can girly. I've spent 4 years in the US Army and have seen and done things you'll never see or do and currently studying for a Bachelors in Criminal Justice specializing in Homeland Security. I'm not a 14 year old kid posting crap. Although I'll admit I do get bored and Semi-Troll at times as it can be VERY entertaining watching you squirm but who can say they don't?

BUT when ignorant players try to change the only game mode I have any interest in then I'm involved! As I've seen those players also ruin other things from constant spamming of crap and somehow managed to convince the team to bend to their will. A loser with no life who can play 24/7 and get 20k 2v2 wins and 10k losses surely is better than noone else. That proves they either dummy or have to wait to get the perfect set up to win a match.

How can you possibly argue that a player with a 70% win rate has more experience and know how than one with 84%? Is that honestly arguable?

I'd like to hear the real leaders thoughts on the all time 2v2 board with 78% win rate Rocky but he didn't post enough to understand his thoughts at all lol.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and the only one I was fighting was the ally link feature which would ruin team battles and cause MANY non-variums to quit once they realize just how many full varium alts are out there roaming when every match is against two fully loaded varium 33's.

Yeah! Lets make it a new mode! Great! Awesome! Fantastic! BUT leave the current team battle alone and move on...

quote:

This is discussion about 2vs2 BALANCE,not lag or dc problems.You're in the wrong topic.


So your going to sit there and say lag and DC's don't affect the outcome of a 2v2 match? So obviously incorrect but I forgot your right because you have a majority backing lol. This forum is ridiculous.


BTW that's all I have to say on the subject unless new info arises. All I have seen is the same replies over and over with no regard to the original reply. Players will find a line or two as ammunition and continue the flame war. Have fun gamers hopefully something new comes up worth a discussion or this thread dies either or xD



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