RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (Full Version)

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Ubear -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 11:53:11)

I like both of your ideas :D



theholyfighter -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 12:06:00)

@Hun: finally found someone who also wants to fight for the advantages for Blood Mages

What I hope for at least:
Change Intimidate to Assimilation



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 12:09:05)

Wat why would you wanna remove intim! :O
Intim is an amazing skill! why not change overload instead to asimilation.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 12:14:55)

@ Remorse

I'll give you an easier overview why Intimidate = Useless

Intimidate = Lowers STR, increases with Support ( Main and Gun are weakend )
Reflex Boost = Increased Defences and Block rate, Energy regain of 15% of damage recieved meaning Every Physical attack is Weakend, Energy weapons aswell if it's Blocked, increases with Support
Technician = Increased Resistance, Increased Robot Damage All Energy attacks are weakend



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 12:18:13)

Intimidate wouldn't be useless if they increased how much strength it takes by putting more skill points into it. Right now, taking 30 strength is like taking 5 damage from the average strength Tact merc.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 12:23:26)

@andy you are classig intimidate wrong.

I think youll find inimidate is related more to smoke and malf.
Also its not useless as it offer defence against alot of builds (most builds use str sometimes) without wasting a turn!
Thanks to bot nerf intim is not alot more usful as if u time it well intim can effect two attacks plus against players.

If you create a blood mage build with medium high str, and medium high dex and support then intim would be very useful plus an amazing all rounder build with a mighty gun attack.

@ edwardvulture,

Then maybe thats what blood mages should get as a buff. Increased intim amount.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 12:24:55)

We might as well forget balance, the ED staff will say they don't favor the merc class but it is becoming clearer and clearer they do. They always talking about balancing things out but when they let support abusing to happen that increases the power of Aux and a multi as well as not being stunned with a stun gun or overload.

Then on top of that they took away reroute and malfunction away from the mage class when they created the Blood Mage class the reason was, the Blood mage would be unstoppable. Then they took away Assimilation. Then they gave the Tact merc Technician to help increase the bot damage and lower the damage of the Mage energy attacks, gave them smoke to lower dex and increase the damage, and the last thing to put things off balance they gave them reroute.

With each update we get further from balance then we were ever before but the programmers know what to do but they will not do it because they do favor the merc class, and until they make true positive changes to bring things closer to balance they will not be able to change players minds that there is overwhelming favoritism towards one class.

theholyfighter, I have been fighting to get the Blood Mage better advantages from day one but for some reason the main players that attack me or my ideas play as blood mages themselves, you have to wonder why?



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 12:39:35)

^ because they are good! e.e



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 12:42:21)

Blood Mage should have BLood shield instead of techinician.

It wouldn't be Oped if Blood shield passively increased 2 res when maxed and one when trained to level 5.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 12:58:32)

Maybe alot of the balance issues occured due to autobot! :O

Think about it,
spamming builds would be alot easier to counter without autobot, intim would be useful, debuffs would be more useful. TLMs wouldn't have such a mega variety of Oped spamming builds.

Its proberly to late to remove it now but maybe in the future they could make some way of preventing auto bot from doing that like some type of anti special robot which passively prevents the specials of all oppenets robots! (this includes the gamma bots energy attack). Since you can only use one bot per 3 turns this would not be very Oped and pherhaps a great idea to look into certainly allow a bit more creativity back into the game.

Discuss if you think auto bot has damaged the game or helped it?
and if you think some way of preventing the auto bot should be created?



scott bernard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 13:22:49)

blood mage I think should keep intimidate skill were they not designed to be strength and hp rippers get rid of overload and plasma rain from blood mage skill tree since Fireball increases with strength its a valid skill, replace overload with field commander OP OP OP and replace plasma rain with reroute OP OP OP then talk to me about how Tactical mercs own epic duel [:D]



Dendavex -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 13:24:31)

@Scott that sounds good and all but if tactical merc will have to get new skills your ideas are good but what will help TLM? once its nerfed



scott bernard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 13:26:33)

I'm saying they shouldn't nerf any class just up other classes to be as powerful as tactical in the skills department I don't want to see tactical mercs nerfed I think epic duel actually did something right with that class just failed on the other new ones is all specially the skill tree[:D]



Dendavex -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 13:28:53)

@Scott your actually speaking probably the most sense in the entire GD every class should be like TLM but yeah we know players just want TLM killed but not at par with others :/



scott bernard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 13:45:43)

well not to brag I've been seeing nerfs from times of alpha especially how supercharge is now, it got killed with nerfing it was actually a good skill back in the day it was laws of probability theres always a way to beat something not nerf it all the way, it took 3 turns to use but most of time a mage wouldn't last 3 turns to use it due to fact that he could have reasonable hp and the power of supercharge depended on the energy points which leaves his def totally nill to none. Just think the other classes need some skill upheavels in the trees is all not to pick on blood mage but does anyone know why they have overload or plasma rain were they designed to be tech or dex I know these are options but doesn't these skills seem to be a waste and underpower this class I'm sure other classes can find irrelevant skills in there classes as well nerfs are not fun neither is overpower but nerfing shouldn't always be the answer try upping other classes skills and powers might get balance there and make the game still fun to play[:)]



Reki -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 14:32:54)

Some thoughts....

*I have multiple accounts of varium and non varium and have tried out multiple builds of each class so I hope these suggestions seem good.*

Strength and Support should cost 6 stat points to increase at 77 (18-22) and beyond to reduce the OP of Strength and Support builds.

Hybrid Armor should be reduced to a +12.

Static Charge should be reduced by 3-5%.

Increase stats needed for skills all around to help improve need for focus.

Bunker Buster and Plasma Canon ignore 10% of defenses instead of 20%.

Decrease Toxic Grenades damage by 2 points per level.

Increase the minus amount of Defense/Resistance for 110 Health and above.

Add a small bonus damage to all weapons for focus builds of +4 and up.



XWorstNightmareX -> Slight Buff to ultimate skills (9/3/2011 15:15:28)

Well first off I am very sorry if this in the wrong section of the forums


I was thinking they should increase the minimum damage of ultimate skills from 20 to 30 because it might make people think of using it more at higher levels since it would guarantee 30 damage, I don't see any problems with this since it would buff all classes.


What do you guys think?, discuss.




Arctic -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 16:27:33)

I dont c how varium items compared to non-varium items r balanced at all :S



gmurray -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 17:45:36)

As we all know the gap between Varium and Non Varium weps is to big. My idea will fix that problem and the one where wep are not having a standed in the lower levels

Primary
For Varium:[Level]/4*3=Stats
Non Varium:[Level]/4*2.5=Stats

Sidearm:
For Varium:[Level]/4*2.5=Sats
Non Varium:[Level]/4*2=Stats

Auxilliary:
For Varium:[level]/4*2.5=Sats
Non Varium:[Level]/4*2=Stats

Armour:
For Varium:[level]/4*2=Stats
Non Varium;[Level]/4*1.6=Stats

Damage:
Pimary:[Level]
Sidearm:[Level]
Auxailliary[Level]+5

Defences
[Level]/4*1.2

Enhancements:
All items have a base of 5 enhancement slots. They are given extra slots for certain things:
- items receive 2 extra slots for being Varium
- items receive 1 extra slot for being Seasonal-Rare
- items receive 2 extra slots for being Limited-Rare or Rare
- items receive 3 extra slots for being a promotion or Ultra-Rare







Shadronica -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 19:58:13)

While I am all for EpicDuel dealing with the mess they made of the enhancements issue I still feel that this problem could have been dealt with in a far more subtle manner than just smacking us all with a big sledge hammer.

This new idea of anti-buffing is going to effectively render all my previous bought items useless as soon as ED decides to proceed with the level cap.

Balance in a game goes far deeper than just getting the class balance right. Its about making things fair for everyone and right now this latest decision had been made without any due consideration for the people who have saved hard to pay for all the products that has been continually thrown at us with bigger and better stats/features.

In other words we are expected to pay for the many mistakes made in this game over a very long period of time and just wear it with a grin when you finally decide to rectify the mistakes?

I really feel that the varium sell back issue needs to be dealt with in order for us to recoup some of the monies. Perhaps you could consider raising the sell back % by a minimum of at least 30% MORE for a limited amount of time when ED decides to raise the level cap. However, if this was to be considered then you need to announce it very early so that players can wait to get a maximum return for all the money spent.

May I also suggest that the next time an announcement such as the anti-buffing one is made that the ED team should also provide us with a solution to ease the burden of the consequences that they have made... rather than just expecting us to beg, suggest or whatever you like to call it for a solution to ease the burden of these momentous decisions. Just a little respect and dignity is warranted here if the team expect respect in return.




ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 20:33:51)

@Shad It only makes sense for a lvl 33 weapon to become outdated when a higher leveled item is released. How would you feel if you didn't buy a rare the first time around because you weren't there and the next time it's released it becomes level cap with extra damage, extra stats and a nice price hike? Not bad since you weren't there the first time to buy it and now you do have it but when you learn it cost less last year and that all the people who bought it the first year got a free buff you might start getting upset. Like you said, balance is making things fair for everyone and giving free power to people who bought an item from last year is not fair. And the buffing of rares was never an official policy of ED. If they wanted to buff an item then they did. They never promised they would do it every holiday nor did they promise to do it at all. But when the Devs try to be nice to older players and give them a reward for being loyal, it always ends up with selfishness. Just look at the Founder threads or how people act just before a seasonal release. They always ask for a buff to their items even though they shouldn't deserve it all. Items over a year old shouldn't stay on top if the level cap leaves them behind. A lvl 33 item should be best at lvl 33, just like a lvl 25 is best off using a higher lvl item or lvl 25 one. It's ridiculous to want to have a weapon that isn't level cap and still be on top of the battlefield. A difference between a lvl 33 and lvl 34 item is small enough to not make a huge difference(Delta Weapons are only so strong because there is no other way to get them asides from the promo) in battle. You can get by with a lvl 32 or 33 weapon at 34 but don't expect to have the most stats or damage though.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 20:49:06)

I'll move this to Q and A



Shadronica -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 22:11:03)

@ND Mallet.

The point to all of this is that we should not constantly keep putting our hands in our pockets to buy all the time. Now I understand that a lvl item becomes outdated but seriously when we have been given a vast choice of weapons (all with extra perks/stats) to buy, not only as they have been presented as rares or seasonals but we have also had to buy class specific weapons for class changes. Are we truly being asked to basically discard those items and just keep buying new ones non stop as the level cap keeps increasing?

Surely you don't need to be Einstein to realise the consequence of these actions.

If you didn't buy the weapon last year then fine you didn't pay for it either. I am not addressing the issue for players that didn't buy the weapons last year I am addressing the issue of all the players who bought any varium weapon at all and their eventual demise.

Any other game that I have played does not devalue/nullify/void the items that are bought with cash.

I am simply stating that I feel that a compromise must be struck here and perhaps ED admin could consider that everytime they wish to raise the level cap that they give their customers an added chance to recoup some of the money that has been outlayed.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 22:25:04)

@Shad Do not forget that the balance team is implementing stat standards on items now so a lvl 33 weapon will give the same stats as any other lvl 33 weapon assuming they're both non-varium or varium, both available in-game or promo and having the same damage. A lvl 33 varium item in-game with 33 damage will probably have less stats than a lvl 33 varium item in-game with 32 damage. The only real reasons you would need to buy a new weapon would be if the level cap increases or you find a weapon giving the stats you want. You may have a weapon now that gives great support but too much tech and not as much dex as you want. Then the Dev's might release a weapon with better fitting stats so you would switch to that. Is it your fault? No, you were making the best out of the weapons you had at hand. Is it the Dev's fault? Again, no. They didn't make the weapon specifically knowing it would make you switch to it. Every release with new weapons you see someone who says "X-item has terrible stats Y-item is great" while another will say"Y-item sucks but X-item is perfect." The way they have it planned is that you don't have to keep buying a new weapon if the one you currently have is working for your build. Sure you might buy a new one when the stats work slightly better but it's your choice. You won't be forced to buy every new weapon because it gives more stats or more damage.



Sparticus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 23:30:45)

At what point will there be a correction to the system that allows one class to heal loop, nerf and then do damage that ignores defense all based on support abuse? Not to mention AUX damage as icing on the cake.

Support linked to so many skills for one class makes it very unbalanced. Perhaps removing the link to support for some skills to make that stat much less appealing to abuse. Clearly requirements don't help.



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