RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (Full Version)

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Lord Nub -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 23:40:34)

^
Then your faced with all str TaM's as why would anyone use support? Also Arty doesn't ignore def if that's your reference btw.

The issue is the fact that TaM has two Uber passive abilities. Lets start by taking out reroute and replacing with anything that doesn't give them more energy and see where that takes us.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/3/2011 23:55:20)

^Tactical Merc doesn't really have that many support based skills, but Field Medic and Artillery Strike combined with Hybrid Armor and Reroute is almost unstoppable.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 0:02:17)

Lord Nub, how about we replace it with Assimilation? That is better.



redxtra -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 9:08:16)

like all is needed is to have a good strategy for it
but i do agree that hybrid + reroute is too much for one class
im saying take away hybrid and replace it with defense matrix since they already have technician



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 9:32:47)

^ That's more mage-like



Lord Nub -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 10:06:00)

They have atom smasher. Why get Assimilation to? The route of all evil is reroute which should be mage specific, hence the name "Mage" and they should have more energy than assassins (BH), or Warriors (Merc).

There's two builds that just work with TaM and that's Str and Sup. Peeps may argue otherwise and say there the greatest thing since sliced bread but when you look at win/loss that's how it is. Both builds use both of these super abilities to the utmost of their abilities.

It allows a support spammer to sit back and heal while waiting for arty energy and aux. Over time sup abusers with lvl 1 heal are increasing their energy and hybrid makes it that much easier to sit back and relax along with the fact they have a high deflection chance which is another great perk of support.

Strength is just complimented like crazy with this tree. Reroute allows you to spam the low costing skills like double strike, maul, and frenzy repeatedly. They also have smoke which lowers their opponents block chance and if that opponent bots, they essentially bought themselves another hit.

In all reroute and hybrid just work out together far too well. I don't understand how this is so hard to see....Every class revolves around its own passive. Mage = Reroute, BH = BloodLust, Merc = Hybrid, BloodMage = BloodLust, Cyber Hunter = basically static charge although it's not passive it has its own strategy considering as long as you hit, you will never run out of energy, and TaM - Reroute AND Hybrid?!?!?!?!? Did anyone think that one through a bit?

I'm sure everyone can agree that a class without the passive i mentioned would be an absolute garbage build. Take away reroute already and leave that where it belongs, Mage. TaM only obtained 1 BH skill and that's smoke so I would say something needs to be picked there. Either replace Hybrid altogether with shadow arts or reroute. That way there not losing a passive and they will still be very formidable. There's many other things that could be done also but that would require restructuring the skill tree further and this appears the easiest way to change one thing. In no way should 1 class have two of the dominating abilities of the game while the others have one.

@Red two posts above,

Wouldn't work man imagine a support build then! Also like the other dude said too mage like.

@Sparticus below,

I enjoy the heal as that takes away a bit of the luck factor. If you have a high support build and get crit and deflected what are you to do? Heal of course and try again. Without heal your limited to your choices and every match would literally be 2-3 turns.

Also everyone would be a strength build. I think we know what happens when everyone uses the same class and build....makes for a jacked up flash game....

@Tigura,

This isn't about whether or not somethings beatable. Everything is beatable but there's less diversity because one class has a superior advantage to the others.

















Sparticus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 10:16:40)

First, my bad , AS does not ignore def but for some reason I thought it did?

Reroute needs to go for TlM, Field Medic needs to get a nerf period. No more healing, this is a PvP game, its not supposed to last 10 minutes a battle.

The flow of the game is diminished when any class can hold you in a battle that long, regardless of who wins. It was that way for mages and they were nerfed big times. Afterwards the game really started to pick up, battles really were fun and players were enjoying themselves again.



Dendavex -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 10:20:38)

You guys are wrong I know (Un)Tactical Mercenary is Over powered but I think all classes should be like it if all class were like this wouldn't you love the game ?



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 10:24:37)

We need to trade Cyber Hunter's Shadow Arts for another passive. ITS OK THAT WE ONLY HAVE 1 PASSIVE SKILL. But if we do we would please appreciate a different passive. Shadow arts is weak by itself and demands that you have high dexterity!!!

Instead could we have reroute, deadly aim, or an energy form of hybrid armour?



Dendavex -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 10:27:55)

@GreenRain13 I got an idea for a new passive for cyber hunter
Cyber slice it will increase bazooka damage almost like deadly aim..
improves with nothing it just scales levels and it can replace shadow arts



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 10:30:28)

^ That's alright for a skill, but that means I won't be using my gun at all then [&:]. I still like your suggestion and vote to change shadow arts though.



od -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 11:12:12)

@greenrain
Or just buff static charge so it's as powerful as the 3 superpassives

I think the problem with Tlm is not just reroute, it's also frenzy which in my opinion is stronger than the 2 secondary passives.



tigura -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 11:19:32)

I have found that supp tlms are very good and if you dont have the right build, are OPed. However, there is a way to beat them :) TLMs rely on their support. But they also rely heavily on the fact that reroute allows them to heal multiple times. So if you take away their energy while staying alive (big heals) you can beat them. My strategy involves keeping the supp TLM at max. 14 energy and looping like crazy. As a TM, I find that because supp TLMs do so little damage when they arent auxing, heal looping is not hard. Especially when you are using a lvl 9 assim. Assim is actually the key to my build, and despite having 112 supp, I use it more than my aux. Keeping the TLMs energy down is not hard after they have used art strike. If you can keep taking away energy, and keep healing, then you can beat these guys.



Sparticus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 11:25:55)

Buffing a passive that requires you to use an attack and also requires you to hit your target isn't exactly helpful.

Trade static charge for reroute for CH
Remove reroute from TlM and give them SA

Then CH don't have to waste a turn and make a clean hit to make RR useful and CH get the energy return same as with SC.
TlM do have to add DEX to make SA useful and a TlM who chooses to support abuse runs the risk of running out of energy and makes
their SA passive less useful.

That's how it used to be fair. Mercs had the attacking advantage but limited energy to produce those attacks.
Tactical Mercs are not Technician Mercs, they are not supposed to be masters of energy, they are supposed
to be masters of tactics to trick and defeat the enemy.

quote:

Quote = ED WIKI

Tactical Mercenary is an intellectual and crafty mercenary who uses tricks to defeat the enemy.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 11:30:41)

^ WAIT, NO!!!

Static charge is awesome, regardless of how much damage your primary does, level 10 static charge gives 21-22 energy per connecting strike! Its a great skill and a new skill and we should keep it.



Sparticus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 11:37:48)

Yes its a fine skill but you have to use a turn for it to be useful.

Reroute would give you less energy but it would not use a turn and it would give you the energy every single turn.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 12:02:01)

Static + Good dexterity = Definite 21 energy gain every 2 turns.

Reroute + High health + High support/strength = About the same amount of energy gained. The difference is the "requirements" (High health, support or strength)

More flexibility with static charge.



Sparticus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 12:10:33)

Your missing one item in your calculation.

quote:

Reroute + High health + High support/strength = About the same amount of energy gained. The difference is the "requirements" (High health, support or strength)


Add to this: plus one additional attack of your choosing including booster/field medic

The attack of Static Charge is fixed, based on your primary and still can miss despite your observations. A blockable attack hitting is never definite.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 12:20:58)

^ I beg to differ, with 86 dexterity I have advantage on people with dexterity even higher than mine.



tigura -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 12:24:25)

@above- Shadow arts doesnt affect your chance to hit the other person it affects your opponents chances of hitting you



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 12:43:54)

^ Oh that's true I'll remove it from my post.

But anyways I usually have a better melee than my opponent.



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 13:11:28)

Response Originated from this post...
http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=19573155



Ashari, hopefully this game can remove those enhancements completely. Over anything else, that addition has corrupted this game. Only reason it can't be removed is because what happens to people whom paid for them. What do they get as compensation or where would it be transferred to? If there is talk about balancing this game, you must address that issue. Non-buffing items with +1 damage is nothing more then a side step compared to enhancements. The other Mods can express about weapons being appropriate for their level all they wish, but most know where it really stands.

I would prefer this game would scrap enhancements as a failed attempt and credit everyone their credits/varium and just move forward.


A good analogy of the state of our current issues is a track runner.


The track runner runs on a track of 100 meters.

For the track runner to run faster and give this runner more enjoyment in more wins, this runner is provided enhancements, but for a fee.

Now the track runner is running fast and winning so much but it has created a balance issue with the other track runners...

The officials, to try to keep the balance more equal and to keep this runner running with the pack, now provide this runner now to run on track of 200 meters.


Now when you look at this analogy, what real difference has enhancements made other then paying twice to run on a longer track? The game has had a plethora of ideas and features to test and try, yet this one formula has been a constant dilemma in ED. Both Enhancements and Balance are quite polar in issue, so no true balance will ever be made as long as this system will remain in place.

As the Balance team is committed to making this game more equal, it will never happen unless enhancements are removed.


Eventually those players who are supplemented with enhancements will have to run on a track of 300 meters to sustain a deceptive balance.

I would like to know what are the long term plans to deal with enhancements from Moderators or Developers?



frosty123 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 16:10:55)

Fist TaM Then CH. For CH replace SA with First Strike( incrreases chance to strike first. ForTam replace Hybred with... Blood Shield



Wiseman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 17:02:19)

@JZaanu: You talk about compensation for Credit and Varium as if it's possible, the fact is it is "not" possible to reimburse players for their purchases. With that said we cannot remove enhancements from the game, because if we did there would be no way to compensate for them being removed.

We may add other stats to apply enhancements to in the future, that way the amount of enhancements can be spread out over a larger field of choices, which would thin down their impact on builds...but that's just one possibility, and it hasn't been confirmed. However I can 100% guarantee that enhancements are not going to be removed, they will remain a part of ED going forwarded, but they should never go above the maximum of 10 slots.



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 17:08:51)

If you can't remove the enchancements already bought, the new weps that you released, don't give them enchancement slots and that way no one loses. Releasing new weps without enchancements slots will be a great advance and maybe creativity may increase bewteen players.



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