RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (Full Version)

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Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 17:17:16)

The game could slowly decrease them as well. I think that is how it started by testing with a few enhancements to see if players were interested, and then increase them, and then really test it for Beta and Founder items.

Right now, players are playing this game to earn credits or pay with varium for enhancements just to compete with other equal or above stat players. There is nothing else. You can guarantee they will never be removed, I can also guarantee, if no real features are added, this game will continue to cycle its' player base.

Enhancements are nothing more then a Dungeon. If this game wants to truly give players a multi-tiered experience without economically draining them just on the pvp aspect, there must be better and more bold plans for the future to provide that experience. I think you know where I am going with this. :)



Wiseman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 17:18:55)

@cyberbakio ryugan: Then the new weapons would be far less powerful then the old ones and nobody would buy them, so that's also not an option.

We have already started planning ways to fix enhancements without removing them, for now though keeping them from going above 10 is a good way to make sure things don't get any worse.

@JZaanu: Another option would be to lower the Credit prices on enhancements "again", possibly create a new Varium/Credit standard ratio for features. I understand what you mean though, I agree that ED should have more features that go beyond battles and PvP that players can enjoy even if they aren't competitive.



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 17:22:52)

Decrease the weps enchanments slots 2 by 2 until all the new weps has 0? I don't think that is a bad idea, not the last but this. Slowly taking the enchaments could work, and I think enchanment gives probably really high money on part most use varium to pay them. Another idea should be that all weps should decrease only to 4 enchancements slots.



frosty123 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 17:23:10)

Well instead of Stat enhancements do weapon enhancements.

So if you enehance it by one lv it would go like this

lv25->26
8tech->9-tech
2sup->3sup.

And so on. Then make it so its limited enhancements. More like lv up!!!

PAy a fee of 100 varium or 500 each lv up. Then If they spent 1000 varium give them free lv ups!.



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 17:27:49)

Frosty: Your idea is a bit exagerated.
Jzaanu: I agree with you, more features than involved pvp system, remember my idea of power hour day? That should help decrease the low enchancements for nonvarium and give them opportunity to buy new weps or enchancements, and I'm still waiting for tournament brackets.
Wiseman: I know you don't want to mess up the whole system, but I know you will find the way to fix it the correct way.



frosty123 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 17:36:43)

Use my idea but with 100 varium. Or 200? 1000 varium spent = 5 free lv ups!!!!



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 17:39:39)

A enchancements costs 100 paying with varium and your idea is to lvl up and pay for it with 100 varium. What is the diference?
Enchancement: 100 varium=1 stat point
Lvl up: 100= 4 stats points plus 1 skill point.
It will make worst the pvp system than it is right now. The idea of 5 free lvl up will make the gap between varium and nonvarium even larger and that is what the Devs don't want.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 17:46:48)

I think I know why Cyber Hunter is considered underpowered and Tac Merc is considered OverPowered.

Tac Merc has Artillery that improves with SUP (crucial, as the aux will be very much OP now), while Multi-Shot improves with DEX, which doesnt increase any damage dealt using Primary/Side/Aux.

But my main point is this:

Tac Merc has Reroute and Frenzy. A way to gain back Health and Energy very easily.

Cyber has only Static Charge. Shadow Arts is good, but has a huge SUP requirment at level 10, and only increases Block/Stun chance resist, doesnt give back HP or EP at all. I say that we remove Shadow Arts from Cyber and replace it with either Blood Lust (now Cyber has a way to gain back HP as well as EP), or even Reroute, (Cyber Hunters deal with Energy, so more energy regain should be consistent with the Class Description).

And to top it all off, Hybrid Armor is just OP. 'Nuff Said. Best skill ever. Even if I decrease my opponent's dex to 0, a Merc will still have at least 13 defense. Either make it non-passive, or have it be nerfed by almost 50% even.



od -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 18:03:28)

@ sparticus
Maybe make it so you can "activate" static charge on your turn, then you can use any attacking skill ( except ultimates since it would be abused)



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 18:14:34)

Some balance suggestions

Balancing TLM:

1)Remove Artilary and give a multi skill improves with dex
or
2)remove reroute and give static charge

Balancing BM:

1)Remove Plasma rain and give Artilary

Balancing CH:

1)Change shadow art in to a new skill that increase connect chance and decrease oponents deflect chance and this skill should have dex requirement.

Game will be balanced.



od -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 18:41:33)

@ Turkishincubus
Tactical mercs will still be op, especially str tlm with static charge and frenzy constantly healing both ep and hp. I think both frenzy and reroute need to be removed for it to be balanced



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 18:58:21)

The balance problem lies between power, defense, and resistance. Since dex and tech increases defense and resistance those should be the stats that increases deflection rate and less likely to get stunned and support and strength increases power only. Until the staff realize until there is need to have balance between power, defense, and resistance there will be no balance.

In a 2vs2 I was wearing Tesla P defense at 28-34 +9+1 with reflex boost at level 1 on adding 28 dex points not being smoked with Artillery Strike a tact merc still got 25/30 with that much defense that player should have not had that much damage. Another time a lower level merc used the bunker buster one match without reflex boost he got 39 damage, next 2vs2 match with level 1 reflex boost on he still got 39 damage. So as you can see just because the skill works for the class it is created for does not mean it will work the same for any other class that it was created for and that is why I posted new skills early in this forum that is unique and would work for the Blood Mage class.

So to start balancing things out do something with the support stat then come up with skills that are not linked with other classes and that class skill can be buffed or nerfed if it is too powerful or if it is too weak and the change will not affect the other classes.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 18:58:51)

Or, instead of debuffing Tac mercs, we can buff other classes. See my above post.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 19:01:36)

I still like my suggestion for bringing some balance to TLM while not ruining the class

http://i775.photobucket.com/albums/yy40/Axl13579/TLMSkillTreEdit.png


it slightly weakens TLM by forcing points to be sent to otherwise ignored skills and allowing less points for the combos we know like the back of our hands



Sparticus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 19:06:49)

OWA: LOL hybrid is way at the bottom, that's great.

Somehow you have to break the energy recycle of any class otherwise you end up with this very same situation. Mages had it first and now TlM have it. The common skills here are reroute, technician and field medic. Take something away and it will get fixed just like it did with mages. Frenzy only made this entire thing worse.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 19:07:34)

I like it. Hybrid at the very bottom.



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 19:14:05)

tbh If they start with atom smasher, they'll realize its one of the best skills and end up even more Oped.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 19:17:51)

@OWA, So if you want hybrid armour you have to have smoke and artillery [:-].

If you have the time, could you consider demoting the strength build by moving smokescreen or maul higher up the skill tree? And possibly demoting support builds by forcing points to be spent on poison grenade before adding points to a skill like artillery?

Other than that it looks pretty neutralized, good job.


@Turkish, Thanks for supporting CHs by suggesting changes, although you may have overlooked our current status. We of course have one passive skill, and shadow arts is a component of chance; increasing chance to block and stun w/ grenade. You suggested having the chance to hit as a skill buff, what we need is something consistent. After all, every other fellow friend and enemy who is not a CH has a passive skill other than shadow arts. Those skills are not chanced, they are definite and consistent.

What Cyber Hunters need is a passive that is in no circumstance affiliated with luck.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 19:58:12)

@Greenrain. Yes. Cyber Hunters need a dependable core passive before they can even start being competent in battle. If you don't get any blocks, you die really fast and SA guarantees nothing.

@OWA. Haha, I like it. It also makes sense because "atom smasher" sounds tactical, so they should be better at it. I'd swich poison grenade and artillery strike too.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 20:07:08)

Instead of having field medic improve with support how about have it improve with Dex?



pokepwner -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 20:18:08)

So wouldn't that make reflex boost oriented builds/dex based amazingly stronger? Example Reflex boost + Multishot or A max smoke build.



igfod13 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 20:28:15)

I think an alternative to agility is to have diminishing effects on health. Much like the way tech changes in its stat progression, once you hit a certain health, you will start getting +1 hp at certain intervals, which increases as your health goes up. This requires more stat points for higher health, which in turn would kind of act like agility. Unlike agility, however, this would allow more "build creativity" instead of having people stuck at 95 or 110 hp.

Also, I'm thinking of going through skill by skill and analyzing exactly how "powerful" they are. I know this will be crazy hard to do and take a super long time, but if anyone is interested in helping, feel free to tell me.

-okdude



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 20:47:41)

Many times I have seen a bounty with max smoke and max multi use up all their energy and by the time they get any back they are destroyed so it would not really make them stronger. If you really take a look at many hunter and mage builds with the stiff requirements we have on skills and equipment it is harder for us to abuse dex then it is easy for mercs to abuse support. Plus if the programmers wanted they could make field medic improve with base stats only so that no matter how much enhancements or increase in bonus dex they get the amount of heal will not improve.

So with field medic improving with base Dex only the amount of heal for the support abusers will be diminished greatly so either they have to reduce the amout of support they have or put more points in field medic making them put less points in other skills.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 20:49:09)

Know what's sad? The only way to deal with support abuse is to match theirs.

EDIT

Here's another idea: Limit enhancements to 50 for a single stat OR, the total distributable points for a single stat cannot exceed 95 (example: base stats + enhancements for strength =< 95).



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/4/2011 21:14:54)

^Or tank EMP with it

Anyways
you call this balanced?

See that Juggernaut record?
See that 2 on 2 record?
This guy is good! (Oped *cough* Oped)

I used to be able to beat this guy when he was a bh, but the biggest problem is that agility doesn't effect you offensively and how tact mercs get that much MP from reroute.



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