RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (Full Version)

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Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/9/2011 19:28:54)

edwardvulture, play in 2vs2 and when you run out of energy and can't use your skill that you have max on or not enough energy to heal with then get back with us or get smoked and get hit with two Artillery strikes and see if you win that match or not get smoked and still survive two Artillery strikes. A player should be able to take one build and compete in all types of battle modes not just 1vs1 and that is what many players are trying to get balance in. We should be able to use any skill at anytime without retrain to get the benefits of any skill not just one skill at a time.

Use Intimidate on a support tact merc, on a tech tact merc, or even me and see how useless it is. I was Intimidated with a level 3 Intimidation and still got 38 damage with sidearm.

If you just have one offensive skill on max you can't really make a determination that the class have great power or that just defeating three inexperienced str tact mercs showing everyone that the Blood Mage is not underpowered.

Level 3 Fireball for me indicates 43 physical damage so with the opponent having 20-24 defense I should have got at least 32 damage but I only got 3 damage so where is the power in that?

Right now we are trying to get the support mess dealt with and then they could work on the skills, replacing linked skills then that way they could target one class without affecting other classes. If they decide to make adjustments to smoke then the Bounty class will get affected. If they decided to nerf malfunction because it is too powerful for the Cyber Hunter then the tech mage gets affected. If they put a high stat requirement on reroute then the techmage gets affected.

So now we will see you number 1 on the leaderboard.



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/9/2011 19:42:22)

If there is two support TLM's you activate Reflex boost, the problem for BM's is that they are the only class that can't take energy.
It sounds to me that your only strategy is to spam strength in a BM build if your gun still hits 38 after intimidate.

I wouldn't want to help you much in the field of 2 on 2 as I know that you run and have seen it.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/9/2011 20:59:59)

My strength is at 15-18 +33 with Deadly Aim +10 but will go up with the level cap. I am one of the few players that don't need to abuse stats to win. A level 29 bounty wanted an easy win to level up so I accepted his challenge first thing he did was smoke so I debuffed. Then he took away all but 16 points of energy not enough to even heal but to put on reflex boost by the time I took him out I only had 6 points of energy. I used reflex boost in 2vs2 it does not work as you think it should. A Bounty had max reflex boost on they laugh at him and two Artillery strikes destroyed him.

One support tact merc was pissed off that I survived 2 Artillery strikes and help destroy his team then he went in 2vs2 and he was my partner so either he had connection lost or he ran on purpose I have no idea but I suspect he ran because he lost to my team in the last match but I was about to win that match by myself when you guessed it connection lost.

A Blood Mage used max (58-64 indicated damage) level Plasma cannon (58-64 indicated damage) on me and only got 41 damage which is equal to a Level 4 Plasma cannon on my Plasma Cannon details so where is the great power. I have mine on Level 3 and just got 41 damage on a Level 33 Varium support tact merc.

You say "my level 31 blood mage" but you only have your tech mage character listed. Myself I have both accounts listed. Put your main account then a comma then your secondary and a person can copy and paste that character name or type that character name in the character pages.

Have you heard of skipping turns and that lovely thing called connection lost, last weekend I had over 50 connection losts in 2vs2 sometimes at the beginning of the match or towards the end of the match when my team is about to win. Majority of times in 2vs2 I get a level 25 or 26 against 2 level 33 players and over 99% of the time I win without reflex boost on me but I have to sacrifice power to get defense and resistance and it should not be like that.

But here we are trying to achieve balance and cyber hunters are trying to get better advantages and improvements in their class as to what the blood mages are trying to do for their class and with players getting 30 to 45 damage at max, only a fraction of what they should get, and calling that power and coming here and writing, "I think the blood mage class is just fine orI don't think bloodmage is underpowered," is not helping the class get better skills, or improve skills that we have to give the Blood Mage a better advantage in all battle modes, not just 1vs1 against one type of build that was dealt with.



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/9/2011 21:01:34)

Hunkinq, having both accounts listed doesn't work as a link



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/9/2011 22:25:20)

BM's Intimidate trade with TtMs SmokesScreen is my newest idea.



Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/9/2011 22:45:43)

^Ehh

Smoke-zerk?

Lets see

lvl 5 smoke=21 ep+27=49. O.o

Or level 8 smoke level 1 zerk. Zerk twice on NPCs.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/9/2011 22:54:11)

Sssst. Good point. Maybe Maul replace Zerker for BMs, Overload becomes Assimilate. TtM Stun Grenade replaces Maul.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/9/2011 22:54:32)

they shldnt have nerfed the bh's mass
my only complaint so far, just was unnecessary, nobody likes nerfs, but everyone loves buffs



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 1:16:29)

@^: Unless it's a TLM nerf XD.

Still think there should be a new passive introduced, "Recharge", where you gain EP back on hits, not HP (Blood Lust, except gains EP).

Also, it would clear lots of issues if we started doing things more percentagewise with Hybrid and Heal.

5% bonus defense/resistance level 1 hybrid
10% bonus defense/resistance level 2 hybrid
etc..., then slowing down to +4% each tier sometime, caps at like +40% or something.

Heal same thing. Level 1 heals 20% of health, level 2 heals 25%, etc..., then slowing down to +4% each tier sometime. Caps at like 50% heal or something. Would fix alot of problems...



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 1:58:05)

@Hun Kingq: you do know that resistance or defence reduces damage right ?

that if a skill says it hits for 60, and they have 20 defence, then ofc it should hit for 40. I can't make any sense of what your saying
about skills not hitting with the power they should. and 40 damage on any player is good in my opinion.

On topic

I don't really care if someone can make Blood Mage work amazing for them, they still got shafted.

when people used to say mercs were too OP with so many def ignoring skills the reply was "we have no de buff to reduce def/res".
well blood mages are in the same boat, having no debuff, but they only have plasma cannon for ignoring res.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 2:06:05)

In 2v2, if your team has 1 less Tact Merc than the opponent, you are likely to lose. So how bout making all 2v2 Teams have 1 TtN and one Regular Class?

Oh yeah, this is funny.

Rage is suppose to stop Tanks. TtMs are the ultimate Tanks. So how come they get Surgical Strike to stop rage? IMO, give the Rage Reduction to SuperCharge.

Also. Let Artillery increase on 5 Support. Seeing as Multis for TM, BM, CH and BH don't get any Damage Buffs with the Improving Stat (Tech and Dex), why should the Mercs get it easy?

End the Support Spammers, let Creative builds rise.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 2:30:04)

quote:

Let Artillery increase on 5 Support. Seeing as Multis for TM, BM, CH and BH don't get any Damage Buffs with the Improving Stat (Tech and Dex), why should the Mercs get it easy?


wrong info. proof to support that this info is wrong

quote:

Other Skill Changes:

Multi-Shot increases damage per 4 Dexterity (down from per 5 Dex)
Plasma Rain increases damage per 4 Technology (down from per 5 Tech)
Static Charge's energy restore effect is no longer affected by defenses. It now uses 80% of your damage BEFORE defenses when calculating the percent energy restored. The percent on Static Charge has been reduced by 5%.


taken form the dn and dn thread Delta 1.3.1 - Wednesday, August 17th, 2011 - Balance Breakdown

remember tlc merc and merc do not have a support buff while a mage have technician and malfunction. also bh have a reflex boost. any multi build can work in 2v2 if u know wat to do.

well ss should have a maul requirement since sc and mass have claws and staff requirements. the devs can also give mercs arty strike a maul requirement too.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 2:37:23)

Yes, but for mages especially, Tech doesn't do much unless you have a robot. Supp lets you crit more, rage faster, deflect etc. Dex is still good for Blocks though.

Have you tried to Outtank a TtM as a Mage or Hunter?



Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 2:50:00)

make a all cred robot that would solve the problem of tech being useless but will the devs do it that idk because if they do make a cred robot they will start to lose $$$. note tech increases the resistance of a person meaning those energy eggyzooka those varium support tlc merc have will do nonsense dmg.support is a luck stat while dex and tech are not they give a person the power to tank.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 5:53:56)

OK, how about a STR Requirement to Artillery Strike? Starting from 20, +2 per LV-UP.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 6:44:40)

@ Luna

Sorry but I have to disagree with you.
Even with lowering the Progressing of Plasma Rain and Multi Shot,
Artillery Strike has clearly the bigger advantage.

Tech: Shure it raises Robot damage, but to have a succesfull robot, you'd need a 4/5 focus build, so there goes Stat abusing.

Dex: More usefull than Tech due to block chances but again you can't abuse it due to being ' weak ' against energy then.
Not to mention no energy free skills that improve with dex.

Support: Doesn't buff Defences nor Resistance yet it still does due to increased Deflect chances. You also Crit faster so you can
easely pierce trough the high defences. Due to having lower defences and the enemy higher, Rage increases a lot faster.
Now the biggest issue... Health Medic and Aux... they Both are buffed with Support.

To abuse the Robot with High tech, as I said, you need a focus build, meaning less points to abuse.
Dex doesn't have any skill that requires no energy to attack with.
Support buffs every attack's crit rate and an easy heal

so all in short... even with the Plasma Rain - Multi Shot buff, Artillery Strike is still the best



Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 8:50:24)

remember arty strike is a physical atk most merc have max hybrid and if u fight a high dex bh the arty strike would do well not much. support mages up their defense matrix and well arty does only 10 dmg at max if it does not crit. there are build to counter high support arty builds so stop complaining again and again. also most support mercs cannot even tank because they have weak defenses as the use hybrid armor to cover up. also a simple emp can wipe out these support abusing people because without energy they are useless. since u guys think arty is the best multi why not just put a maul requirement on it since most support abusing mercs make use of rare seasonal swords to buff their support points as most swords have more stats and more enh slots than most class weps.




Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 9:14:20)

quote:

there are build to counter high support arty builds so stop complaining again and again.


quote:

also a simple emp can wipe out these support abusing people because without energy they are useless.


Complaining? Simple EMP.

Clearly you know nothing of a BloodMage.
We have no Debuff, We have no Extra armor, We have no Energy Steal.
I like to see you beat a Support Tact merc with BloodMage :)



Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 10:24:19)

@ andy
1 1 M
X M X
1 1 X
M X R

a simple 5 focus build with max bl and barriers can handle these support morons. reflex-techni-robo-heal. u can do anything if u have varium. being a non varium is another matter.

oh and this build also kills annoying str bh,str merc and str tlc mercs. because reflex boost will counter the smoke and increase your block rate. i know nothing eh ya think.



theholyfighter -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 10:31:16)

Blood Mages:
1.
quote:

Lvl 1: 28% Lvl 6: 43%
Lvl 2: 31% Lvl 7: 46%
Lvl 3: 34% Lvl 8: 49%
Lvl 4: 37% Lvl 9: 52%
Lvl 5: 40% Lvl 10: 55%


This should be the damage calculation for Fireball. Notice that the percentages are from Bludgeon.
Blood Mages are an evolved class of Tech Mages...........(well after the balance, it will be) Therefore, Tech Mages should have their skills improved in the
Blood Mage class.

With this damage calculation, the difference between Bludgeon and Fireball is that one is blockable, the other isn't. Thanks!

Example: Your strength ( after division): 12+32, and you have Lvl 1 Blugeon. Your total damage is: 12+(32 x 1.28)=12+41=53

2.May sound greedy, but Blood Mages really need a skill to be able to reduce opponent's energy/increase self energy
(reflex doesn't count ...)
3. Super Charge is really tooooo weak!!!

Rages are used to work against tank builds, right? But how come mercs and tactical mercs have Surgical Strike's special ability which reduces their opponent's Rage meter?



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 10:46:24)

So tell me Luna... did you actualy Try the build in a real battle?
On paper, this might work but in a real battle...
Doubt it seeing I had that build when RB just got added to Bloodmages



Lord Nub -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 11:00:40)

No worries. Once they do away with Field Medic we will all be str builds where the winner is decided by who blocks the most. Shadow Arts and Reflex Boost will be huge in the upcoming era.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 12:16:08)

Yes, I do know to calculate the defense and resistance in attacks but when I get 41 damage on level 3 plasma cannon and the partner gets 40 on max plasma cannon, or with a player with everything on resistance even armor and they have low defenses, I hit them with a level 3 fireball and only get 3 damage, the system is broken and has been broken.

Having max reflex boost max technician basically ignoring all offensive skills just shows that the programmers wasted all those hours coming up with the skills that will never be used and they should have never gave the Blood Mage any offensive skills nothing but defensive skills and gave them the description of defensive fighters not aggressive fighters.

To get balance one thing they need to do is sit down and look hard at the stat progression table especially for support maybe make support go up every 10, 15, or 20 stat points at 18 it should start 1-1. Defense and Resistance should go up at the same rate, to not make multi shot overpowered with the adjustment make the damge start at 22 dex and lower the starting tech on plasma rain from 28 to 22. This way all classes start at 22 no matter what stat improves what.

Maybe like someone mentioned create a new stat just for AUX that way people would have to choose which power they want Aux or Artillery strike, not both.

Next, after dealing with the stat mess they could work on new unlinked skills so the three classes can be independant of the other classes and they could make adjustments each to class without affecting the other classes as it should be.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 13:25:08)

@Luna: honestly, Id say you seem to know very little based on your comments and Im not being nasty or anything.
you suggest tanking a support merc. you do realise that means they are gonna rage twice before you rage once right?
and most good support mercs are just gonna time their rage with your buffs wearing off. Ideas are great, keep em
coming, but they don't mean anything till you apply them in combat in a ton of fights. support has too many benefits
that heavily favour both types of merc, and to a lesser extent, regular mages.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/10/2011 13:29:49)

@Hun Kingq

Funny that the system is only broken (in this specific manner) to you; all other posters, at least, do not seem to have the same problems. You could either take another look at your calculations or report the bug in the bug section of this forum (preferably providing screenshot evidence comprising your damage, your stats and the opponent's stats).



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