RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (Full Version)

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Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 16:11:36)

quote:

How come we never had a skill that lowers the support stat???


quote:

would be as bad as having too much support in certain circumstances.


So, it wouldn't be OP all the time. So it wouldn't be OP. Besides, luckiness is something pvp games monitor because of the complaints from it. Support will have lesser impact and not so much of a big deal. After all, support has luck factors doesn't it? I'm also sure dex blocking may have a nerf in the future as well.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 16:12:42)

Now that I think about it, Reroute is kinda OP in general.

Blood Lust requires you to hit your opponent and gain HP. Opponent block, no HP gained, opponent attacks you and you get hit and lose HP, where as if Tech Mages block, they gain no EP, but they dont die from getting hit. If they do get hit, they gain back EP, which allows them to heal/defense matrix/plasma bolt kill.

So Reroute is better than Blood Lust. There are alot of Imbalances here...



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 16:20:09)

I made a suggestion on reroute but sadly it never got put in.
It was like Whatever amount your life, you get the same amount of MP back when you hit 0. Leveling it up would increase the MP gained back. So basically if you have lower life, you have a higher regen rate, and higher life gives you less.



Sparticus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 16:24:33)

@greenrain13: Umm I'm not sure what you said but...

If you can reduce another players support you will crit them more, deflect them more often and there no buff skill for it.(assault bot not included)
If you have a normal level of support and so does your opponent and you use the support lowing skill on them its the same as you abusing support in some circumstances, these do not include buffing those skills you have that increase based on support. It does, however nerf other players skill that depend on support even if they started out with normal support and are not support abusers. Thus adding this skill does nothing to nerf support abuse which is the issue.

Below me: No and I don't want someone to control mine either. I'd prefer less luck all around TY.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 16:25:33)

So what you're saying is you don't want to control another person's luck?



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 17:04:24)

Indeed support stat is the strongest. This is my idea: Make crit chance increase with strength plus the percent left of hp . What do you guys think about my formula for crit chance?
That should lower support stat's power [:)] Any tweeking will help. I will try to make some skill trees for TLM, in this week until then gl [:D]

20% support- 15%strength x left hp= crit damage



Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 17:08:32)

^Ehh

So

Someone with 1 HP left and 50 STR/50 SUP or 100+ of either would have a 100% chance of crits, ohmygawd.

Normally I somehow manage to leave enemies on their knees, and 1 crit would kill me. So, no.

EDIT: Why don't i abuse HP and w/e other stat then?



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 17:14:52)

Sorry got the formula wrong, let me edit it.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 17:29:13)

Health: Increases your Health by 2 for each point trained.
Energy: Increases your Energy by 2 for each point trained.
Strength: Increases base damage range of Primary, Sidearm, and enhances certain skills.
Dexterity: Increases physical defense, and enhances certain skills.
Technology: Increases energy resistance, robot damage and enhances certain skills.
Support: Increases base damage range of Auxiliaries, rage rate; Reduces chance to be stunned and enhances certain skills.
Luck: Increases chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate. Enhances certain skills indirectly.

Luck Scale

1-10 Luck = 10% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

11-21 Luck = 20% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

22-33 Luck = 33% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

Luck Scale OPTION 2

1-10 Luck = 10% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

11 Luck = 11% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

12 Luck = 12% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

13 Luck = 13% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

14 Luck = 14% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

15 Luck = 15% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

16 Luck = 16% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

17 Luck = 17% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

18 Luck = 18% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

19 Luck = 19% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

20 Luck = 20% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

21 Luck = 21% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

22 Luck = 22% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

23 Luck = 23% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

24 Luck = 24% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

25 Luck = 25% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

26 Luck = 26% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

27 Luck = 27% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

28 Luck = 28% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

29 Luck = 29% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

30 Luck = 30% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

31 Luck = 31% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

32 Luck = 32% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

33 Luck = 33% Chance to go first, critical strike, block rate, and deflection rate.

How is Luck calculated?

Luck decreases with player level. A higher level player will have less luck than a lower level player. The lowest level has the highest luck and the highest level has the lowest luck. Luck is calculated by numbers with the following formula: Luck value = 34 - (Player' level).

SIMPLE AND SWEET!


I think this is really awesome, does anyone like it or dislike it? I think we should keep SKILL to the higher level players.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 17:46:56)

Since they wanted the Tact mercs to have energy regain as well as an enegy shield all they had to do is program 15% energy return for the Blood Shield. The Blood Mage should have a skill that debuffs all stats and whatever is the highest stat gets the highest debuff, it would be a skill that is not linked to any class and is unique to the Blood Mage class.



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 17:48:58)

A luck scale wont help, since luck is not needed in this game, but I agree that higher levels needs more skills battles



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 17:50:03)

Look @ when your level is 24 and up, your luck is only 10% chance at MAXIMUM.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 18:28:50)

Note that in your second idea, nobody can have 33 luck.

The maximum that you fight against somone is 5 levels above/below you. So 33 luck would not make it in there. You can't find someone and fight them that is 33 levels above you. Even if you are level 1.



Wiseman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 18:30:19)

@Lord Nub: You and some other players seem to be overlooking the fact that Field Medic has a Tech requirement...tech is the skill that strength builds use the least. As someone that has used strength builds for well over 5 months I know that many other strength users like myself have rarely put points into tech.

So it wouldn't really buff strength builds, if Field Medic was made static, in fact if anything it would promote higher energy builds which in turn lowers the stat inflation issue slightly. Oh and did I mention that it would be more fair for F2P players? See, they can't get as much support as us paying players because of lower enhancements, so they can't heal as high, so we do more damage AND we can recover way more health...hmmm sounds a bit unfair to me.



Lord Nub -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 18:36:02)

Wiseman you seem to be looking SOLELY at the poorly made strength builds. Your overlooking those that str/tank. Why would someone place 6 points into str for 1 damage when they could place 3 in tech to up there smoke and take far less tech damage?

Also with such low res you leave yourself open to malf taking very high amounts of damage. You also seem to be overlooking the fact that Reroute AND hybrid is not fair to the other classes no matter how you swing it.

Also I fail to understand your F2P comparison. Your solely talking about support when that's an issue with ALL builds not just support.

You have been fighting against Support since beta and as I stated in our PM, there's no arguing with a dogmatist. Your opinion is valued greatly by Titan which is the only person that matters in this game as he's the programmer. If your values is what he agrees with and wishes to take that approach then hey so be it. This game will forever be imbalanced. I could careless as I'll always have the overpowered build regardless of equipment or class but it's very tiring to fight the same builds over and over.

Good luck justifying your approaches to the players. It's quite apparent someone had this idea of Reroute AND Hybrid and don't wanna fess up that it was a horrible decision.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 18:38:36)

Static Heal would make builds use afew more points in Energy but all the enhancements would still go into wahtever they are spamming becuase we never give up there are still people tying to create HLTM out there i promise you so it would only slow down Abuse builds and only by a small amount



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 19:26:46)

@Joe

Thanks, changed to
quote:

Luck value = 34 - (Player' level).



Wiseman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 19:47:43)

@Lord Nub: Apparently your forgetting that the New Classes were releases before the balance team even existed, so nobody in the balance team had any say about what skills where included in the TLM class. I believe I also stated that we are considering ways to deal with Reroute should it come to that, but that change would also have an adverse effect on Tech Mages as well (the class your obviously trying to defend).

Many players already understand and agree with this approach and as stated in a post I made earlier today, when player demand goes up against a change that's best for the game in the long term, the game wins. So I won't have to justify anything, however I do have plenty of reasons why making Field Medic Static would be in the best interest for the game, not only to make Heal Looping less overpowered, but to make support less effective, and make stat inflation less of an issue in some classes. It's just like with massacre, players seem to be entirely against adding points to the skill because they are so used to using it at low levels and getting a big pay off from it. Celestine already provided a couple of good reasons to make Field Medic Static, but believe me there are more.

If we did decide to make FM static, we will do it knowing it will upset many players, and still decide to go through with it, because it's for the good of the game in the long term. It would be far more effective then applying another bandage over the problem, only to have it resurface again at higher levels.

I'm done discussing the Field Medic issue, you can feel free to put all the blame on me, though I'm not the only one with this line of thought. It really doesn't concern me how players view me, because being hated is just another part of being in a balance team and being a moderator in general.

That's my final word on the subject, any future post by me in this thread will not be about the Field Medic issue.



Lord Nub -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 19:58:07)

quote:

It would be far more effective then applying another bandage over the problem


And nerfing field medic isn't applying a bandage? You seem to keep passively placing the blame elsewhere and ignoring the fact that one class has BOTH Reroute AND Hybrid.

Your talking of fixing reroute in a manner that would basically delete techys from the database altogether when reroute in itself is NOT the issue. The issue is reroute AND hybrid. How many times do we have to post the and? One of the skills must disappear from the TaM skill tree altogether or that class will always be overpowered.



Sparticus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 20:01:21)

quote:

It's quite apparent someone had this idea of Reroute AND Hybrid and don't wanna fess up that it was a horrible decision.


Rather then point the finger of regret lets take a moment and think about the two skills. Hybrid armor allows the user to have increased DEF. This in turn allows the user to allocate stat points to areas other then DEX. Reroute currently has no requirements. Why not make Reroute have a DEX requirement? This might effect some Tech Mages but it will effect many, many more TlM. If you want high Reroute you will have to pay for it by using precious stat points on DEX. For a Tech Mage this might be a whole lot easier if FM is made static. Stat point can be allocated to something other then support and stat tree points can be allocated to FM to compensate for the changes. The only difference is the TlM can't regain as much energy and can't heal high enough, fast enough to heal loop. Problem solved and everyone comes out slightly injured but not dead. Even BH, Mercs, BM and CH get the FM static change.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 20:02:20)

I always thought TacM was meant to have hybrid, reroute is a mage's skill. Perhaps tactical mercenary DOES need energy to use more tactics and deadly skills, although the synergy is clear. They have extremely powerful skills that can be reused over and over.



Algorithm -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 20:14:22)

Hmm my personal opinion on this matter is similar to a lot of the players thoughts, I personally think the class doesn't need to have both Reroute and Hybrid Armor, since it is a branch off the Mercenary class I suggest Hybrid Armor stays, and Reroute gets replaced with idk something more tactical and less techy :P.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 20:17:50)

Wiseman, "but that change would also have an adverse effect on Tech Mages as well" That is why I came up with new skills for the Blood Mage because I seen how linked skills had a negative affect on other classes when they get adjusted due to one class wants to be abusive and put that idea of giving back Blood shield with 15% energy return to the tact Merc which they would loose reroute. These linked skills have to be broken that way the programmers can concentrate on each class individually without affecting the other class but first have the programmers do something with the support statIi don't care if it affects the mage class because shame on them for lowering themselves to the way of the abusers they should have tried harder to find good balanced builds to counter all builds in all battle modes.



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 20:45:20)

quote:

I don't care if it affects the mage class because shame on them for lowering themselves to the way of the abusers they should have tried harder to find good balanced builds to counter all builds in all battle modes

Why shame on us? I got no problem with using the OP build as long as it is strategic, but I got a huge problem with changing to the OP class just to be OP. Besides, I read Daphne's heal-loop build on the old EDF but missed the heal loop era [:(]



mcjas1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussions (9/5/2011 20:53:51)

i kind of agree but people complain about hybrid... however i think they should do something that inspires hp (maybe edit agility so u can get higher hp without to much defence loss)
that way tac merc will increase hp making their hybrid weaker (because of agility) and if they dont get hp they have the hybrid at +13

ik this is off topic but arcade need its prizes more common :) (back to balance :))

~Mcja1



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