Restrictions on Class Change (Full Version)

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Elf Priest JZaanu -> Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 19:37:19)

Being one of the few players who has never used this feature, in regard to my class (Mage), I have tried my best to compete with the ups and downs as the game progresses.

Though this game is now trying to balance itself, I think this feature should be balanced too.

Since this feature has been introduced, I have only seen flux of class-change people. Basically these individuals are one's who will constantly class change when there is a convenient or OP'ed build available. I am so tired if seeing the same clones (no disrespect to any player, but seeing this aspect generally) over and over.

As I mentioned many of my own opinions about balance, this game can never be balanced as long this feature remains with no restrictions.

Since the release of these new classes, I mainly see the same three builds from one class with a skill tree full of contradictions. I have had to work extremely tirelessly in competing seeing the exact same copy over and over. This game will get boring and redundant, simply because, players will choose the easiest and shortest route to victors.

Sometimes I ponder what can be done for a feature this game has invested in, and they chose to build around.

Many have suggested a certain number of class changes annually.

I also think, if a player chooses to class change, they must restart their level at 1.



I am not sure what can be done, but this was another feature that was asked for, and now, like every other feature, it seems, it has been abused and taken advantage of.

Merged into the Balance Discussions thread. Anything related to balance belongs here. Please do not make additional threads about balance. ~Mecha

You're correct, my apologies for not realizing and created a new thread.
~JZaanu



Bunshichi -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 19:42:50)

I wouldn't mind this happening, class change is something that's getting annoying....



Wraith -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 19:43:02)

Agreed.

If this feature was restricted to once a month, there would be a huge cut from the TLMs, who would most like flock to the next OP class, like noobs. (Which in a way they are)



frosty123 -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 19:44:02)

Hmm so we are suppose ot think sbout ideas to stop class changes from being abused. You do have to buy new armor and wepons but thanks to uniclass so i suggest take out uniarmors and Mutating weapons. Nothing else i can think of



Wootz -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 19:48:19)

Agreed. But I don't like starting from level 1 again. Where would all our items go?
I'm still wondering should I switch to Cyber Hunter or stay as an Bounty Hunter.

Edit: Exactly, you need to be really smart, Pro and know everything about the game in order to win. One wrong move and you're dead.

Posts merge, because of a thread that was merge. ~Mecha



The Death Trap -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 19:56:26)

Not Agreed. i dont really mind the class changes because it is good for the ED team Financally
and you can have more of a open mind for changing class



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 19:57:32)

If this game needs to be balanced, we need some type of balanced demographics in the classes to represent honest opinions in class vs class match-ups.

My post has nothing to do with being opened-minded. It has to do with when one class is favorable over the others, and majority switch over due to the ability for easier victors.

Speaking of finances, I didn't include that in the discussion because, again, just because it makes monies, the general society should not feel, they must class change to compete.

I did not speak about eliminating class-change, but there should be some type of restrictions, so the demographics are not always shifting out of convenience.

Read my entire post before adding elements that were not needed to be introduced.

This is about demographic balance, not about monies.



StriderAigis -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 20:02:28)

quote:

I also think, if a player chooses to class change, they must restart their level at 1.


so its like u made a new char? ehh i dont think i wanna do all those battles again



DeathGuard -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 20:07:45)

Jzaanu I agree it needs restrictions but start from lvl 1 is kind of really hard, what about a lvl less than they're? Also I have never class change and I have had the opprtunity to but I have always been a mage since beta and I'm kind of really experienced with it, also during gamma desesperatly it was crushed with balance and until now it can stand a chance against other classes. I think that players always search and buy and support the game for power, the ambition of power is the cause of the unbalance in this game, all the players, most of them focus on one class, and the Devs gives more advantages to it, no offense but is the reality for me.

I think that the ones that only changed to Op'ed classes change to mage, they would feel this game a lot better than it is since is the funniest class in the game.



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 20:10:22)

quote:

so its like u made a new char? ehh i dont think i wanna do all those battles again



Likely it would never happen, but it would restrict people who just want to win. If a person wants to learn about a class with both positive and negatives, starting from level 1 would reflect more of a real life situation.






PivotalDisorder -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 20:12:21)

deleting every single 33 support tac merc is too harsh ? :)

Even once a month limit wouldn't be enough IMO. I don't like the idea of resetting the characters level.

what about price scaling ? first time is normal price, 2nd time it goes up a bit and so on. kinda like enhancements.
I know that it doesn't solve the problem but at least someone would be benefiting from their OP class leapfrogging.



DeathGuard -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 20:16:18)

Decreasing the rarity score every time they class change should help or what about not increasing varium pricing but credit pricing, so lets say, class change costs 900 so the 4th time lets say, it will cost 10k credits and 900 varium, that should stop them from jumping from class to class, what do you say?



PivotalDisorder -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 20:19:18)

obviously the credit prices would have to well thought out, but in theory I like that idea. wouldn't actually cost them more money but would definitely inconvenience them.

and anything that inconveniences them is good :)



nico0las -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 20:24:00)

Well, restricting class changes to once a month is not enough. Most who choose tactical STAY tactical. I switched from tactical to bounty hunter because there's no fun just doing the same thing over and over again. I changed before the strength or support build was really existent for the Tacticals.
It's like learning at school. If you have all the tools given to you, but you are too lazy to use them, or simply take the easy route, you achieve nothing. Failure is just as much a process of learning as victory. I'm not going to rant about tactical mercenaries. They're a fantastic class, yes. They have everything at their disposal. I find it shameful that players, ESPECIALLY varium players, will choose the easy way out, by switching to another class for easy wins.

Think what you want about what I just said, I think you'll find that it's not far from the truth. Excluding, of course, the TLMs. You'll probably just disregard this.



DeathGuard -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 20:36:45)

I miss mages with their malfunction and DA builds, bhs with their smokescreen and cheap shot/massacre plus high strength and mercs with their bunker buster builds. Good times like that are the ones we need, not the many TLMS with almost the same build just different weapons or sometimes they're even the same!
I was happy when I saw low lvl mages going all around asking to be in factions and for builds, and I used to help them but now tlms gather together to say how powerful they're...



9001WaysToLaugh -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 20:51:55)

Class change is a good feature though for those who have gotten bored with their class.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/21/2011 21:07:19)

quote:

I changed before the strength or support build was really existent for the Tacticals.

@Nicolas: erm the very second the class was added, the support build and strength build existed. in fact they were more powerful then than they are now.



BlueKatz -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/22/2011 2:34:41)

quote:

I also think, if a player chooses to class change, they must restart their level at 1.


Wow this sound fun :P



theholyfighter -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/22/2011 10:02:53)

Blood Mages can't drain opponents' energy.
All Mages don't have a "venom" skill....



PivotalDisorder -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/22/2011 10:41:49)

@theholyfighter: to give blood mages assimilate back, a skill needs to be removed, what do you suggest?



Dendavex -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/22/2011 14:43:31)

Sure Jzaanu Im sure you wouldnt like yoru hard put to waste please think about this sensibly



PD -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/22/2011 16:01:29)

Just a note, I'm highly against the notion that class changing should have restriction. Class changes are only a problem because the cycle of power exists. And everyone should know I'm never for temporary solutions for persisting nuances.

If you remove/fix the class cycle of power (Via fixing the stat values, curbing power inflation via standardizing, and fixing the skill ratios), class changing doesn't become a problem. It only is because the stat values and skill ratios themselves are inherently balanced. It's not the build that makes the build overpowered, it's the stat power and skill power BEHIND the build that make it so powerful.

If you don't realize that... you need a great deal of education.

Yes, it should be a heavily weighted and considered choice to change classes, but there shouldn't be any blocks restricting the option to do so - That's only trying to destroy the reflection rather than fix the source of the problem

Circumnavigation of problems will regretfully bite everyone in the butt later.



Wootz -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/22/2011 16:05:43)

Yep, PD is right.
/BroFist



PD -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/22/2011 16:15:32)

Just an example of a "band-aid" solution to a persisting problem was the implementation of Stat Requirements on skills.

Yes, they do restrict, however, they are fixed in range and do not scale. Therefore, the stat requirements become obsolete as players level up, because the more levels a player has, naturally, the more stat points that character will have.

The more stat points a character has, the less effective stat requirements are, because stat requirements become easier to meet.

The above serves as an example to tell people to think of PERMANENT solutions to problems rather than TEMPORARY solutions to problems. Band-aid solutions are the same as circumnavigation because both do not really solve the problem.

If I need to make this any simpler, please do request. I want my point to be as clear as possible.



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: Restrictions on Class Change (9/22/2011 17:49:12)



It is obvious the inflation of stats causes many issues, but that is only one layer of balance discrepancy. The other is demographic balance. Since the addition of class change, there has been a constant shift from class to class to gain the advantage. And honestly, when has this game ever been balanced? There never was or will it ever likely happen. What made Beta phase interesting was, many who had the challenged classes focused on solutions as first option. Now first option is moving the most efficient class.

If not restriction, then add assentive for players staying in one class. The balance team and the game will have much better numbers of how truly the game is balanced in regard to stats/classes/skills when the shifting does not happen so dramatically. This game, to be successful, not only needs to have class balance, but it also class demographic balance too.

What you used as an example of Permanent solution is only scratching the surface. This game's sole revenue is based on stats (gaining the advantage), and until this changes with more features beyond pvp your example is nothing more then stating the obvious; sadly.





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