RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/11/2012 13:46:49)

People should try to read earlier posts before saying the same thing over and over..

CH is being discussed on already, Static Charge makes them too strong now and WILL be changed.



PD -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/11/2012 14:17:46)

Also, SC rounds up so it takes 2 damage to get +1 energy per SC hit. What this means it's not necessarily STR builds that are the problem as it is with the fact that you can tank with it, and the fact it does not take in mind opponent defenses.

Edited out unnecessary commentary. ~TG



DunkThatOreo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/11/2012 17:49:02)

PD I find your posts funny even when your completely serious because you make everyone look like children without brain cells :P



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/11/2012 18:11:46)

quote:

Well they aren't as bad as Tactical Mercs, however static charge might indeed be a problem, we're already considering ways to fix the skill.

Thanks for your concern.

Wiseman Co-Head of ED Balance


Official PM. So deal with it people, there will be change to CH.



BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/11/2012 18:41:19)

Not as bad as TLM? Which part? TLM is annoying because they have so many stupid effect like Block and stun and CH is so strong you can't kill the without being lucky



supermasivo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/11/2012 19:21:49)

I only can see here complaints, complaint and more and more and more complainst... new target? CH class... CAN U JUST LEAVE SKILLS AND CLASSES alone? at leats more than a week for christ sake???? CH have allways had that SC working like this and now u wanna change it? for ur info... SC is not OP... the only thin that make CH OP is the passive def... nothing else.

SC IS PERFECT COUSE IF U GET A BLOCK U HAVE TO WAIT 2 MORE ROUUNDS TO RE USE IT... SO U NEED A DECENT DEX TO CONNECT... and if u get smoked? u have to lose a turn to debuff... AND IF U GET BLOCKED AGAIN? 4 LOST TURNS AND MAYBE U HAVE TO BOOSTER ENERGY... AND IF U GET EMP OR ATOM IN THAT CASE? 6 TURNS! Now tell me! if u dont have any idea of this couse u are not a ch user and u cry becouse u get owned by them dont flame them.

And seriously... pls ballance team u will take in consideration any PM u recieve from complainers? why u want to make a such quick nerf to the SC and tac merc remained so OP for like 5-6 months (i dont remember)

And i repeat SC get blocked and u are dead... if u got low str like my build? a max SC wont give u more than 18 energy per hit or low... pure logic.



Algorithm -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/11/2012 19:45:07)

Interesting?



DunkThatOreo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/11/2012 19:50:29)

^what o.o



BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/11/2012 19:51:49)

I can list many skills get blocked and you are dead... it's not like SC is the only skill make you lose when it's blocked....



DunkThatOreo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/11/2012 19:55:34)

I find it funny how you all blame the team for the *mistakes* in balance when here you all are arguing/complaining. You chose a target, attack it, when it gets nerfed you
go on to the next op class. Will this pattern never end and let the team do what they need to do instead of worry about you complaining players who obviously
care for nothing but yourselves since you can't take the decency to let the team off for atleast a week without complaining for every little thing?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/12/2012 9:33:06)

Katz, I think he doesn't play as much as ALL of us ED players together and don't see that big mistkaes as we do with more experience. That's why we provide most feedback abd then it gets changed.

massivo, fight Lvl 33-34 Str or Dex CHs as they are only ones that exist. Besides if it gets blocked, you can still Tank a lot. And I'm CH myself..



Laces -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/12/2012 18:07:06)

Well it seems no one listen to me..so I'll post again...

Plasma Armor

Level 1: +5 Tech
Level 2: +7 Tech
Level 3: + 8 Tech
Level 4: +10 Tech
Level 5: +12 Tech
Level 6: +14 Tech
Level 7: +16 Tech
Level 8: +17 Tech
Level 9: +19 Tech
Level 10: +20 Tech

Lower the Tech Requirements a bit for this skill and add to our tech instead of our defense. Thats only a +5 to +6 resistance boost. The reason its only +20 is because it increases the Technology stat which in turn would improve EMP, Stun Grenade, Bots.



supermasivo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/12/2012 18:34:43)

TrANs u say u are a ch? i cant see that in ur profile... anyway, ontopic: i use ch mega dex build and its pretty cool for sure couse now i got a near 100% rate win... but anytime my SC get blocked that 100% decrease to a 50%
STR ch maybe could have a little better chances looping energy to get high lvl massacres...
Anyway im not gonna tell u how to pwn another ch making emp grenade spam couse its a personal strategy...
Anyway if u cant defeat them, join them and kill them from inside LOL...
Now battles are intresting! now we have some strategy on it! the amount of brainless str builds decreased! and thats a goal!
The ballance against OP TLMS and OP energy STR, SCharge TMs just arrived with this update!
Now battles are so ballanced that a single solo can last more than 5 minutes and strategy is coming back! HOPE is coming back!
Static is perfect this way... couse is blockable and ur strategy most of time is pure lucky if u connect that skill...
I can see u are a TM, thats why u complain.



Matrix77 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/12/2012 19:29:40)

@above, you heard what you said? you get almost 100% win rate. Then you went on saying if SC gets blocked, your win rate drops to 50% during a battle. If that's the case then your build is probably poor. IF SC is a deciding factor to your build then your build has quite some flaws to it as it is not meant to be a reliable skill. So if your build gives you near 100% win rate then you're relying on your SC too much. CH were already heading for tank builds before the buff of the Plasma Armor. Now with Plasma armor, they are capable of tanking just as much as how a TLM can tank. Also SCharge mages did not just arrive with this new update. They existed before this update. So your claim is not valid.



Minus123 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/12/2012 19:38:40)

@supermasivo
quote:

Now battles are so ballanced that a single solo can last more than 5 minutes and strategy is coming back! HOPE is coming back!

quote:

the only thin that make CH OP is the passive def... nothing else.



Ya you're right about the passive def, but i hope with you saying with your previous post that balance is coming back, that it's only for the 1 vs 1 mode, since i don't play 1 vs 1 and wouldn't know.

But in 2 vs 2 it's basically the same thing as when TLM's were introduced
All the CH's have to do is get their tech require, put on a +9 resist armor, and max out plasma. This allows them to have a lvl 5 Multi shot that still does loads of damage if they have a dex build (And maybe they can use Multi shot more than once, and with a dex build, it shouldn't be hard to land a SC). In other words, if the other team has 2 ch's, you're dead. Even one CH is difficult to beat with you and your partner still standing.



BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/12/2012 22:35:03)

To be honest Charge is stupid IMO. It's not balanced compare to other skill (it's FREE and trade Skill Point for so much Stat Point - in this case MP) I think every skill should be balanced so we can actually have creative build. Make "This skill feature this class" is so stupid, force a class to use 1 OP skill or something just pain boring. That's why I always hate HA and now 2 other Armor skills, they are way too OP and all you do is dumping all your Skill point into them



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/12/2012 23:09:23)

Static Charge should be static



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/13/2012 8:07:15)

Presenting .... ( drum roll ) ... my LATEST SUGGESTION!!!!

A new skill for Mercenaries ? Yep . Is it energy gain? Definitely a yes!!! Though you guys might think i'm saying i'm better than you guys , but actually i'm not , so here it is :

Skill Name : Adrenal Frenzy
Skill Description : Converts % of any damage done ONLY by weapons ( e.g Primary , Gun ) into energy
Type : Toggle ( which means it does not use a turn to activate )
Stat Requirements : 18 Support ( At level 1 , then + 2 per next level )
Skill Progression :
Level 1 : 15% Damage to Energy
Level 2 : 18% Damage to Energy
Level 3 : 21% Damage to Energy
Level 4 : 24% Damage to Energy
Level 5 : 26% Damage to Energy
Level 6 : 28% Damage to Energy
Level 7 : 30% Damage to Energy
Level 8: 31% Damage to Energy
Level 9 : 32% Damage to Energy
Level 10 : 33% Damage to Energy

Note : This is a buff for Mercs since they don't have an offensive debuff .

So....what do you guys think? Good ? Not enough? Or bad ?
Feel free to say what you want to say about this .



Arcanis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/13/2012 8:53:06)

^^:Whats with the screaming colors? Yes,i did notice them better,and yes my eyes told them to tick off. -.-



Wiseman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/13/2012 9:17:24)

Mercenaries will not receive an energy drainer, especially not an passive one, sorry. We're well aware that most of the overpowered class/builds have been overpowered because of the ability to regenerate health or energy, we do not want to make the problem worse than it already is.

We will probably give mercenaries a new passive however, and currently we have a few options, our most popular one is giving them a way to passively increase their rage.

Other options include: Passively boost their aux damage (works like deadly aim but with lower percents), passively give their attacks a slight def/res ignore factor (this one is unlikely), passively boost the damage of their attacks (works like the def/res ignore but in the opposite direction, which is also unlikely to happen *this would not work like diamond blades, it would work more like old-school focus*).

Those are our current options, however we are still welcome to suggestions, as long as they aren't obviously overpowered. Passively restoring health or energy are not suggestions we will accept however.



Darkwing -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/13/2012 9:34:12)

@ wiseman: how about a debuff like smoke and malfunction...but it doesn't lower dex or tech...just def/res ( works as agility ). Because mercenary needs a damage boost.



Gepard Acht -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/13/2012 9:42:42)

^ hooray no diamond blades

and i had a thought of taking out def/res not dex or tech as a debuff for a while now, it will take out more than smoke or malf, but it wont affect the skills, blocks % or bot dmg since it doesnt affect the stats directly



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/13/2012 9:45:03)

^ They have intimidate,

But that skill is in desperate need of enhancing.
Making it reduce wepon damage is one way of buffing it, so it nerfs str improved skills which is now based on wepon damage.
But then they wont have any effect of fireball..


Plus I think their needs to be new counter made for builds.

One for countering extreme power builds such as the extreme high str max fireball blood mage.
The only way to sucsefully beat them is be lucky enough to start for one, then kill them before they kill you.


I sugest they make a robot with a special ablaity that reduces the next incoming damage by 50% and reduce a small amount of rage. Only usable one per battle.(Unblockable)

Then they need to make a bot to counter all robot specials to ensue if a player wnats a fair fight they can use that, which would buff intimidate aswell as it would stop aussult bots rebuffing their STR.
The way it would work is they oppenent tries to use their robot special instead it says *fail* and they get nother turn without decreasing warm up. When it comes to your turn your robot would already be in 3 cool down.


As for mercanries perhaps they could improve feild commander to instead of give strength it improves wepon damagae(for sidearm and primary) and as an added effect for using the skill (similar to reflexes reroute) they will get a bonus 25% more rage on their attacks.




Wiseman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/13/2012 9:59:18)

@Remorse: The "one time only" bot ideas won't work because the system does not support one time use skills, however I like the idea of a bot that stops other bots, or better yet how about a consumable that stops bots? Sadly the term "EMP Grenade" is already taken, so if there is a consumable item that stops bots I'm not sure what it would be called, and it would most likely only stop bot special abilities. It would be equipped in the same slots as Boosters, even if that idea never happens, we do plan to make more consumables eventually.

We've considered that option for Intimidate, and we like the idea, however the skill mechanics are Ashari's line of expertise, not mine.

Also we believe that "First Turn" is overpowered, and are considering ways to improve the second turn players chances of victory, suggestions for that issue are also welcome.

@Gepard Acht: I'm not sure if a skill that lowers def/res of the opponent is a good idea, especially with Maul having def ignore already (it would cause a similar issue to Smoke + Maul, which is the main reason we removed Maul from TLM). However I think Mercenaries do need a way to boost their overall damage, and all of our current passive options address that problem, including the rage increasing one (it allows them to hit hard more often), hopefully we can find the best solution.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/13/2012 10:30:42)

Wise
I only sugeested it making the bot one time only, because the yeti bot has this restriction so I dont quite understand how the sytem coulnt support it. BTW I mean one time for the special only.
Also staring IMO is a problem however not the cause, if ways to beat power build were made eg. My damage shield then I think it will solve the starting issue to a degree.
Also the consumables is a great idea but I sorta feel robots are going to a waste in terms of their special potential.



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