RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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huuduy1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/11/2012 1:15:45)

1/ Move Deflect back to Support
2/ Azrael's Bot blockable OR baby yeti special can decrease all the stats of gun,aux ( + disabled gun, aux )
3/ Berzerker + 5% unluck ( block ) + 10% ignore defense/resistance <- like cheapshot. Intimidate : Count by % of strength enemy. Every 4 support = 1%.
Lv1 : 28%
2 : 32%
3 : 36%
4 : 40%
5 : 43%
6 : 46%
7 : 49%
8 : 51%
9 : 53%
10 : 55%



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/11/2012 5:38:33)

Deflection will not move back to Support. Can you do some math why it should move back and in what situations you deflect less/enemy deflects more? If you have ~equal Tech with opponent then both of your deflection rates are low, if you have more Tech then his deflection rate is lower and yours goes up and vice versa. Having Deflection in Support which most of builds don't have, gave Support big advantage over other stats but also relied on luck.. Tech is defensive stat, not offensive so it makes sense.
Also Support will be improved because of deflection being taken out, you're missing out that point and see it as a nerf.

If you're Str build, nothing has changed as you have low Support and low/mid Technican so it might've improved or stayed the same. If you're a Tank, then you have improved and perhaps if you had Support near as high as Technican (or higher) - it's pretty much same as it was before. If you're Support abuser, of course it has changed if you had low Tech.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/11/2012 5:43:02)

quote:

Tech is defensive stat, not offensive so it makes sense.

no it doesn't
all it does is give tank builds more power.

why dont u go fight the focus super tanks ch/tlm with 31-38 def and res from stats alone +12 and +9 from armors?
see how u fare against them now.

whats the diff between them? well tlm will reduce ur blocking chance.
ch will reduce ur deflect chance. and can heal loop better than tlm.



all this update did was make CH stronger.
and screw up bloodmages. (who relied heavily on gun)



huuduy1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/11/2012 17:21:09)

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg46/scaled.php?server=46&filename=bloodmagek.png&res=medium <- this build is have high support. And most of TLM have high support to make it focus 5. Then why would you change to TECHNOLOGY for ????
Cyber and Tech mage already have high Technology ( absolutely high ). Not only that, they can decrease your tech from Malf.
Ex : I'm cyber 34 malf the TLM to low his SMOKE SCREEN and BOT. And when the match finised. I counted : 3 Deflect from him by gun only ( 1 rage ).
Technology is already good stats for some skill of CH,TLM,TM and Merc. Why would you buff them more ???



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/11/2012 17:57:51)

quote:

Cyber and Tech mage already have high Technology ( absolutely high ).

Typical newbie.
quote:

Not only that, they can decrease your tech from Malf.

*cough*assault bot*cough* and plus, malf improves with support, AKA the most useless stat at this moment.
quote:

and screw up bloodmages. (who relied heavily on gun)

And I heard there was a bloodmage dude called JaY HawK that could still 2-3 turn people...



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/11/2012 18:09:27)

quote:

And I heard there was a bloodmage dude called JaY HawK that could still 2-3 turn people...
Jay? Man, he is such an awesome blood mage, I have fought him and won because I deflected, else we would had killed me.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/11/2012 21:18:47)

ROBOT REVAMP:

Normal Strike: 6x Focus
Special:

Gamma/Yeti: Requires 3x Focus to work
Assault/HeartBorg: 40% Base, +5% every 4 Support

Hows this?



sotsemod -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 15:18:40)

I have tried str blood mage recently. all my attacks are blocked or deflected. skills are destroyed by emp. i win only if i am lucky. it seems to be the most worthless class now.
please correct me if i am wrong.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 15:25:52)

@above Fireball. If you can't win with a Str BM then you need to rethink your build or get better gear.



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 15:29:33)

@sostemod
Try putting a BM against a TM and see what happens :P



Digital X -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 15:56:09)

@Sotsemod, I have quite a lot of experience with BM's. Most EMP's take off 30 or so, and if you have 62 Energy for Max Fireball, 1 Zerk, you can still do either. Just gun first, fireball then Zerk (if you can) then strike/gun repeatedly. usually gun > fireball > zerk > rage gun takes down most enemies.



vulkan -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 16:28:43)

blood mages do need a few buffs, but not like they did with cyber hunter.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 16:29:16)

Please fix 2vs2! Literally I just NOW fought a 2vs2 battle. It was 2 lvl 34 full variums vs me (lvl 34 non-var) and my lvl 28 non-var noob partner. My partner left 10 seconds after the match began. Absolutely ridicoluous and not fair in the slightest. 2vs2 has too be broken. Titan and RabbleFroth please fix this! [:@]



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 21:21:56)

A pure strength Blood Mage is the easiest to defeat out of a strength tact merc or a strength cyber hunter due to the Blood Mage has no defensive or resistance passives, they have nothing to increase the damage, and are more likely to get blocked than the other two. A Cyber Hunter with max shadow arts has a 50% block rate where as tact mercs and Blood Mages has 40% (this was from a moderator). Why did they did they allow the Hunter class to be able to increase their block chance, no one knows.

My strength is at 28-34 side arm +33 damage one player had low resistance with +7 armor he was level 8 malfunction, I shot him with the energy side arm, got 25 damage due to deflection.

If the opponent has 26 plus defenses and wearing physical armor without smoke I only got 45 or less damage. My fireball at max indicates 82 physical damage so if the opponent has over 90 health, a strength Blood Mage will lose that match especially if they get malfunctioned or smoke. A blood mage will get deflected and have a 95% chance of getting blocked. A level 1 emp on me took away 37 points of energy so telling a person to have more energy may work in 1vs1 but the cool down of the emp is not long enough or if you get hit with 2 emps in 2vs2 at 37 points loss each that is 74 points of energy lost. Telling a player they need to rethink their build, get better equipment, or put more energy is not a viable answer and is truly not the solution. I have the best equipment and due to a pure strength Blood Mage low defense and resistance they will get high damage just by strikes alone because of no blocks or deflections even at high dex/tech, a Blood Mage don't block or deflect.

The answer or solutions are not buffs but to balance the Blood Mage so they can compete in all battle modes especially in 2vs2 when your partner runs, that class skill tree needs to be redone with new unique skills.



Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 21:27:10)

@Hun Kinq: Tell that to the 9000+ BM's who slaughtered me. (Notrly)



rej -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 22:19:53)

I cannot believe there are members of the Epicduel community that are actually deffending the deflection chance being moved to technology. It only shows that they care more about their builds than the game's overall balance.

More on topic: Has anyone else noticed that static charge has a completely different regain function than other similar abilities like blood lust, frenzy, and supercharge? While they give hp/energy back based on damage (aka, if you deal 30 damage with a 20% health regain, you get 6 health back) static charge always gives energy equal to x% of total possible player damage. In other words, even if they deal 3 damage, or worse, are blocked, they still regain x% of their damage, which could be as much as 30 energy regained. Does anyone else (That isn't a cyber hunter) find this disturbing?



PD -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 22:23:24)

No, technology was undervalued before this update. It's not about people liking their build when the math said that it was.




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 22:28:39)

@pd
and now it seems over valued for focus tanks with 31-38 def and res + armor and mineral/plasma armor.



BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 22:29:26)

Actually Tech is the most balanced stat before. However STR is too strong and Support was really good and was way to abusing (easy to dump in for Unblockable build and easy to pass for damage build)
This update put Tech pair with STR but leaving Sup UP and Dex a bit behind

It's still unarguable if STR or TEC is better.
I still have the feeling that people don't really use Gamma Bot that much (maybe because of the 2 nerf Bot is too good). It deals +15 damage, enough to make any of your builds deal damage better



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 22:32:41)

Wraith, do you not have EMP, do you not have malfunction, do you not have shadow arts, do you not have Plasma armor, do you not have static charge? When you go into a match, do you not analyze what equipment they have, what their defense and resistance is at? Analyze the moves they use?

It seems how everyone wants to throw an EMP at me but when it comes to other players they don't want too. If you throw an EMP at that player, Wraith, and you don't take enough energy away what do you do, get 500 credits and retrain put more into EMP.

In a 2vs2 match I shot a strength Blood Mage with the fireball then when my turn again I shot him with a side arm boom he was dead so if I could do that without smoke or malfunction to a strength Blood Mage then there should be no reason you can't do that as well with all the skills you have as a cyber hunter.

Level 8 multi with high dex level 4 or 5 malfunction is a deadly combo without malfunction on a low resistance strength Blood Mage you can get 50 Plus damage. A Blood Mage with high tech and max Plasma rain rarely sees above 47 damage due to either players have energy armor, high resistance, or a combo of energy armor and high resistance.

So Wraith I did not get to Emperor rank by chance or luck I look to see what build, weapons, and tactics a player or players uses and I adjust.

How many others here think that a pure strength Blood Mage is hard to defeat or easy to defeat due to low defense and resistance?



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 22:52:12)

quote:

How many others here think that a pure strength Blood Mage is hard to defeat or easy to defeat due to low defense and resistance?

*raises hand* ME! Blood Mages are OP OP OP OP OP!!! and undefeatable :P
Why does nobody think about us poor Tech Mages...



Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/12/2012 23:15:03)

i hate it when some 1 with no weps except his primary comes into 2v2 and "oh i got hacked"( he says this all battle btw and this is a true story and i was using my alt) usually i keep quiet if meet him for the first time. if i meet him again i will say this: "do some npc dont come into 2v2 expecting a ch partners which can carry u there are other people in 2v2 so pls think before clicking 2v2 button and spoiling other peoples 2v2 records". if i still see that noob which got hacked this would be the next thing i say: "give up on your file u cant win just make a new file and dont let some moron hack it again". if still see him and he is my partner: "i have already told u not to spoil every1's 2v2, told ya to npc and told ya to even make a new file and u r still here*claps* u got guts now lets see if u can beat the 2 players alone *leaves*". Ok i know it is evil to say all those stuff but come on if u get hacked just make a new account or npc dont spread your misery to others in 2v2.

ok how i wish there was a filter preventing these noobs for entering 2v2 or the filter allows these noobs to meet other noobs like them. noob vs noob = no harm done to every1. 2v2 balnce has been horrid since beta and now it is worse.



sotsemod -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/13/2012 0:29:05)

@Digital X
thanks for advice but relying on berserker means relying on pure luck because it will be blocked in most cases due to low dex. same happens to strikes. and now tech also deflects my gun. what can u do? only fireball is left. I do the following: fireball, gun, strike/aux, rage fireball, gun. this still often works but very frequent blocks and deflections (plus emp) make me fail a lot.

Yesterday I changed to tech mage btw and began beating those to whom i would lose as a BM.



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/13/2012 0:50:22)

^
If you get blocked a lot, you should make some balance between strength and dex. BM is still more OP than TM as a matter of fact =.=



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/13/2012 5:27:01)

AQWPlayer, as a tech mage do you not have Assimilation and malfunction?

When I was a tech mage with Level 5 Malfunction and max Deadly Aim I was able to get 70 plus damage with the side arm, the highest was 83. With max Assimilation you can get 40 plus damage and take away 10, 12, or 13, which ever one it is.

I have seen too many tech mages in 2vs2 without malfunction and they know that the other players have bots that can do some damage and complain how they can't win or think that another class is OP because they are easily beat due to they lack of armor or wear energy armor when they know vast majority of attacks are physical thinking low dex will win the battle.

Tech Mages have the skill to reduce tech and increase the damage where as the Blood Mage has to rely on stats to gain the high damage of high energy costing skills. In 2vs2 when I get a tech mage as a partner and see they don't have malfunction or have malfunction and don't use it I already see the outcome. Get malfunction because when you get a Blood mage as a partner with an energy side arm, max deadly aim, and high strength then you will see 50 plus damage.

When I increase my Dex to where I get at least 26 defense and wear physical armor the highest a Blood Mage got without smoke was 37 damage so is that over powered, no.

So just because you are easily defeated does not mean that class is OP.



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