RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

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TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 16:18:57)
Its very stupid that 70 dex hit all of his attacks + do a block against 121 dex. Just mentioning the stupid things in ED that should be balanced, than ppl just came here and say str builds are too strong, yes they are cause they hit all attacks with stupid dex.

streetnaruto -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 17:11:04)
FOR THE LOVE OF PIZZA! STOP SAYING NERF\REDUCE PLASMA ARMOR.If they do mineral armor will also get a nerf.

streetnaruto -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 17:14:05)
O and tlm is the opposite of ch Heres why: Plasma armor 12 res=Mineral 12 def Malfunction=Smoke Static charge=hunger

8x -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 17:16:55)
I think static charge should have 3 turn cooldown. (or it should work like frenzy, but that would probably be too big nerf)

streetnaruto -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 17:19:06)
But hunger is still op. Why not make stat charge like poison blade dealing 70% of weapon damage(less eng regen)

8x -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 17:21:18)
quote: But hunger is still op. Why not make stat charge like poison blade dealing 70% of weapon damage(less eng regen) Its called frenzy, not hunger and static charge is the overpowerd one. Frenzy gives back % of the damage that you do on your opponent and static charge gives back % of your strength bouns+primary weapon damage.

Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 17:22:16)
Take Plasma off CHs and it's balanced, seriously. We do get if Plasma is nerfed then so is Mineral but they both should be gone. Debuff + Energy regen + Passive Armor - are you kidding me? All basic classes have 2 of them only. Only because there are 3 evolved, doesn't mean they must be that stronger. BM has just one of them and needs small buff but it should be done when SC + BL works together (just like Mass + BL does) and Intimidate gets changed.

Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 17:34:50)
The problems with Tact Mercs and Cyber Hunters are that they got smoke and malfunction where as the Blood mage got neither but intimidation which only affects one stat and does not increase damage. Their reasoning was, giving Blood mage malfunction would make them unstoppable but how do we really know this if it was never tested in the real game environment where every other player has a debuffing bot now. That is one lack of balance between the new classes, unequal debuff skills. Since Cyber Hunters and Tact mercs can gain a good amount of energy back to balance things out between the new classes, EMP and Atom smasher should be removed because the Blood Mage can't take energy or regain energy. Now to weapons, I came across a Blood Mage with all Beta gear so looking that gear up not a single piece has any kind of requirements on it, so why should he or she put any money in the game as the rest of us do to get the new gear and equipment not only to help support the game but to be able to be better competitors, yes the right gear makes a difference so don't try to convince people otherwise. To balance things out between weapons and equipment requirements need to be put on weapons that go all the way back to the beginning because it is unbalance that the rest of us have to get weapons with such steep requirements where as the ones that got the beta weapons have no requirements.

8x -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 17:44:31)
quote: The problems with Tact Mercs and Cyber Hunters are that they got smoke and malfunction where as the Blood mage got neither but intimidation which only affects one stat and does not increase damage. Their reasoning was, giving Blood mage malfunction would make them unstoppable but how do we really know this if it was never tested in the real game environment where every other player has a debuffing bot now. That is one lack of balance between the new classes, unequal debuff skills. Devs nerfed intimidate by adding bazookas and bots. One solution would be to find a way to give it really big buff so it's equal to smoke and malf, because I don't think they would give malf to blood mages. quote: Since Cyber Hunters and Tact mercs can gain a good amount of energy back to balance things out between the new classes, EMP and Atom smasher should be removed because the Blood Mage can't take energy or regain energy. My suggeston for that problem: replace overload with assimilation.

Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 17:50:14)
I still find it as a problem with CH (and TLM) that they can regain + take away a high amount of energy. Having a unlimited amount of energy + making your enemy have way lesser energy. It is not working. Not to mention the passive armors with this combo. The amount Assimilation give and take is a good and balanced amount, and I think that EMP and Atom Smasher should be something like this aswell. There should not be a possibility to take away up to 50 energy from you enemy, while the CH easily can get back 40 energy in each battle. quote: Now to weapons, I came across a Blood Mage with all Beta gear so looking that gear up not a single piece has any kind of requirements on it, so why should he or she put any money in the game as the rest of us do to get the new gear and equipment not only to help support the game but to be able to be better competitors, yes the right gear makes a difference so don't try to convince people otherwise. To balance things out between weapons and equipment requirements need to be put on weapons that go all the way back to the beginning because it is unbalance that the rest of us have to get weapons with such steep requirements where as the ones that got the beta weapons have no requirements. Having a build with betas used to work, but it barely dosent anymore. Due the low dmg it have. The old bunnyzooka also have no requirements. I do not find a problem with this, so I do not think it should change now. If requirements come to the beta set, I say higher its dmg.

Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 18:36:56)
For Assimilation to work it should take more energy then reroute gives back. playarn, this is the Beta Blaster (Level 25) Weapon Details Damage Type: Physical Equipment Type: Gun Damage: +28 Enhancement Slots: 10 Stat Modifiers Strength: 0 Dexterity: +9 Technology: +8 Support: 0 Requirements Level Required: 25 Strength required: 0 Dexterity required: 0 Technology required: 0 Support required: 0 Stun Cannon Weapon Details Damage Type: Physical Equipment Type: Gun Damage: +33 Enhancement Slots: 8 Special: 5% Chance to Stun (Stun Shot) Stat Modifiers Strength: +5 Dexterity: +5 Technology: 0 Support: +9 Requirements Level Required: 33 Strength required: 33 Dexterity required: 30 Technology required: 30 Support required: 0 A Level 25 weapon having +3 more damage while the Stun Blaster/Cannon a Level 33 weapon has a +33 damage not a +36 so why give Low level Alpha and Beta weapons more damage then the new high level weapons just because they add requirements? Two Promotional offers the old gets 10 enhancement slots while the new only gets 8. The ones that carries the no requirement equipment can put as much points in any stat they want and still have high health and energy. This one Blood Mage had 44-53 but the chart ends at 43-52 so now put a Cyber Hunter or tact Merc with all weapons with no requirements they can have any stat higher then the normal players creating an unfair advantage. As new gear comes out with requirements those same players will not get that new gear, why should they? since they have gear with no requirements and can easily abuse any stats they want. playarn, he had lower strength and got more damage than I did and did they have enhancement slots during those phases no so why should a lower level old promotional weapon get more slots then a new promotional weapons where one group of weapons you can abuse whatever stats you want while the newer group of weapons you can't, then they come here saying look at how much damage I get. By you logic since those weapons did not have enhancement slots then they should have never got any enhancement slots.

Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 18:47:15)
Ehm, what? As I can see it does Stun Cannon have 5 more dmg then Beta. And that was my whole point. Sure Beta is better to abuse a dex or tech build. But when it comes to dealing dmg its pretty useless, and for that it shouldnt get requirements now. If it was reqs when it first released, ok. But changing something that is almost 2 years old, nope.

rej -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 19:12:48)
quote: I think static charge should have 3 turn cooldown. (or it should work like frenzy, but that would probably be too big nerf) I agree, one of those two nerfs should be applied. Static charge works much in the same way as heal does, and also has vaguely similar returns. Therefor, Static charge should have a cool down of 4, much like heal.

Goony -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 19:52:26)
quote: The balance this update was mostly aimed at the starting levels. Tech Mage consistently lost to Bounty Hunters and Mercenaries at level 1-5. The starting stats of the classes and the starting weapons have been adjusted: Tech Mage: Starting Stats changed: 44 HP (+2), 46 EP (-2), 21 Dex (+2), 17 Supp (-2) Apprentice Staff now has +15 Damage (up from +14) Mercenary: Start Stats changed: 47 HP (-2), 43 EP (+2) Basic Club now has 0 Str (down from +4) Bounty Hunter: Light Blades now has +13 damage (down from +14) I just tested the balance update and the above changes did very little to help mages. Again it's not the stat distribution that is the issue, it's the skills. The reason why mages lose to mercs and BH are due to the defence ignore and critical chance of cheapshot and bunker buster and the debuffs of smoke and, to a lesser extent intimidate. Also, hybrid hurts the mages chance to compete. Defence matrix does nothing to help as it improves defence, but doesn't improve the connect chance. They will continue to lose badly between level 1-5... If you want to balance the game from the bottom up then please review this: Skill tree standard If mages had malfunction in the top tier it would help immensly, but those 2 skills that have a critical chance will continue to sway the balance. Since critical adds a minimum of 10 extra damage it is really overpowered at lower levels, if that could be changed so that it scales by level might help. Additionaly, adding a critical chance to bludgeon might work as well, with an increase in energy cost to start at 15 ep... Hope this feedback helps! G00NY

JohnMenzies -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 21:43:48)
@Hun King - Are you talking about one of my characters, Death Killer 12345? When you mentioned about the 44-53 resistance.

Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/25/2012 22:51:00)
Cyber hunters had just one passive skill before, shadow arts. Technician was removed and replaced with a second passive skill, plasma armour. Battle tracker should show the statistics, as I know that this class has become ridiculously popular and visibly powerful in battle. I almost know that plasma armour is responsible. The armour is nearly always the cause. For mercenaries: hybrid armour was decidedly split. For tactical mercenaries: mineral armour was fixed to defence only. These defensive/resistant points compromise requiring dexterity or technology points, essentially. Up to 13 points in defence/resistance is proportionally equal to 52->65 stat points. And we are trying to fix stat problems? And even more sobering, is that 3 out of 6 classes have access to this power... while the other half do not. I do not appreciate armours as much as the other passives which I find to be less effective, the current hybrid armour for mercenaries being an exception, being a reduced value although it still is compromising stat points. Also mercenaries having an immutual skill tree with no synergy really. And mercenaries have but one passive and no way to restore energy. I have a recommendation towards editing cyber hunters: Remove plasma armour. Remove shadow arts. Remove malfunction. <- OP. For a class with this many energy attacks and a rapid energy regeneration, also, technology determines the ranged effectiveness, and there is no support nerfing skill to compromise malfunction. Remove cheap shot. <- UP. There is only one Primary attack skill for this class... and this require class-specific weapons Add plasma aura. Add cyber arts. Add blue ruin. Add energy shield. Plasma Aura: Whenever any attack using a Primary is used against a player possessing plasma aura, the attacker takes shock damage. Level 1: Attacker takes 1% of their total health in damage (not affected by any defences). Level 2: Attacker takes 2% of their total health in damage (not affected by any defences). Level 3: Attacker takes 3% of their total health in damage (not affected by any defences). Level 4: Attacker takes 4% of their total health in damage (not affected by any defences). Level 5: Attacker takes 5% of their total health in damage (not affected by any defences). Level 6: Attacker takes 6% of their total health in damage (not affected by any defences). Level 7: Attacker takes 7% of their total health in damage (not affected by any defences). Level 8: Attacker takes 8% of their total health in damage (not affected by any defences). Level 9: Attacker takes 9% of their total health in damage (not affected by any defences). Level 10: Attacker takes 10% of their total health in damage (not affected by any defences). Weapon Required: None Stat Required: None Level Required: replaces plasma armour Improves With: None Warm Up: 0 Cool Down: 0 Cyber Arts: Passively increases the bonus to hit with a Primary weapon and increases rage rate. Level 1: 1% bonus to hit with a Primary weapon and 2% increase to rage gain. Level 2: 2% bonus to hit with a Primary weapon and 4% increase to rage gain. Level 3: 3% bonus to hit with a Primary weapon and 6% increase to rage gain. Level 4: 4% bonus to hit with a Primary weapon and 8% increase to rage gain. Level 5: 5% bonus to hit with a Primary weapon and 10% increase to rage gain. Level 6: 6% bonus to hit with a Primary weapon and 12% increase to rage gain. Level 7: 7% bonus to hit with a Primary weapon and 14% increase to rage gain. Level 8: 8% bonus to hit with a Primary weapon and 16% increase to rage gain. Level 9: 9% bonus to hit with a Primary weapon and 18% increase to rage gain. Level 10: 10% bonus to hit with a Primary weapon and 20% increase to rage gain. Weapon Required: None Stat Required: 24 Technology (+2 per skill level) (42 Technology at max) Level Required: replaces shadow arts Improves With: None Warm Up: 0 Cool Down: 0 Blue Ruin: Assail an enemy with 2 devastating strikes (to vulnerable areas EXAMPLE the head or legs) with the held primary weapon. Improves with strength. Energy Required: Level 1: 16 Level 2: 18 Level 3: 20 Level 4: 22 Level 5: 24 Level 6: 26 Level 7: 28 Level 8: 30 Level 9: 32 Level 10: 34 Damage Progressions Level 1: 34% more damage Level 2: 38% more damage Level 3: 42% more damage Level 4: 46% more damage Level 5: 50% more damage Level 6: 54% more damage Level 7: 58% more damage Level 8: 62% more damage Level 9: 66% more damage Level 10: 70% more damage Weapon Required: Wrist blades or Sword Stat Required: 19 Support (+1 per skill level) Level Required: replaces cheap shot Improves With: Strength Warm Up: 0 Cool Down: 2 Energy shield replaces malfunction. I am going to be pushing this post once per page and making needed edits until it is considered.

Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/26/2012 0:48:29)
^ I also agree that the reason there are abusive builds and limited option for the other classes is because of TLMs and CHs having the extra bonus wit combined energy regain and defence de buffs WITH the passive armour.. But I think you are leaving TLMs out of the picture, They are just as much as a problem as CH and if you deal with CHs only it will just go back to the ways things were since delta for 6 months with an obvious oped rain of TLMs. I do agree that many skills could do with trading in both CH classes and TLMS. However The essential changes in my veiw are both changing Plasma armour and mineral, To diffrent skills. Its either that Or have their energy regain and defence debuff (smoke/malf) tacken from them to give them the same layout as mercenaries in terms of having a passive armour. There was a reason mercs had limtations and this rule has been completely brocken with TLMs and CHs, for balance to be reparied it needs to be restored. SOLUTIONS I liked some of your skills changed deppressed but Im just gonna tackle the main issue and thats a change it for plasma and mineral. For cyberhunters, Chnage for plasma armour and give them: STAIC SHEILD: Uses up a whole static charge (If blocked it still activates, and sends it into cool down) and convertes a % of the energy regain from the skill into an energy sheild wich lasts 4 turns and grows in defence each time you are dmaaged (charges itsself) Each time you are hit 5% of the dmagae tacken is added to the sheild warm up :0 Cool down :2 lvl 1: 20% of the static charge lvl2: 25% of the static charge lvl3: 30% lvl4: 33% lvl 5 36% lvl6: 39% lvl7: 42% lvl8: 44% lvl9: 46% max: 48% For example: A cyber hunter has lvl 1 static sheild and decides to use it. on clciking this skill they use static charge like normal as if they cliked static charge but instead they clciked static sheild (it sends static charge into cool down also), excpet they gain NO energy from it but a % of the energy regain is turned into a sheild in this example the cyber hunter gets a static charge of 20 energy. 20% of 20 =4 So they have an energy sheild of 4 added for 5 turns yes it is low but its only level one and it grows in power as they are damaged. For example they are agianst a blood mage which uses fireball and it hits 50 damagae onto them, 5% of the 50 dmagae is added to the sheilds 5% of 50=2.5 rounded to 3 so they gain an extra 3 energy sheild onto the 4 so they now have 7 energy sheild with 3 turns remaning and so on and so forth. I havnt thought of a skill change for TLMs mineral yet but I will try and think of one.

Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/26/2012 7:41:31)
Just thought that I'd say this in general: Tlm has problems again if you take their skill requirements off. What needs to be done is skill effect nerfing. Not just forcing someone to have 45 support, but making frenzy for example lower in health regen.

drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/26/2012 7:45:37)
I think this thread isn't going that well.... :/ Ideas are discussed, and then forgotten. Should we compile a list of probable ideas somewhere? By we I mean someone who isn't biased to their class. So I'm out. :P

Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/26/2012 7:49:44)
Which outlook on the term biased? Someone who favours their class, or someone who despises their class? I'm someone who generally isn't biased, what do you think right now of the CH suggestion Drinde?

ngshuyi94 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/26/2012 7:53:48)
Met this person in a 2vs2. Enhancement really made things unfair and crazy. Hes so tank that its really hard to even really hit him and he blocks so much. [:@] Awesome balance is awesome

drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/26/2012 7:54:43)
Plasma Aura could be OP. It'll be like taking a bonus 9 HP Hit each turn... Cyber Art seems alright, but maybe change the Rage Gain % to % of reducing Criticals? And I'd change the name to Lock On. :P Shouldn't Blue Ruin NOT improve at all? Its a % based skill... Maybe remove the Improver, and add in a DMG Transition to Energy? Like a reverse Bludgeon. My thoughts. @Ngshuyi Urm. Aren't you a DEX CH too? ._.

Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/26/2012 8:03:37)
^ For blue ruin its really the same thing as double strike, even though it "improves" with strength, it only means that the higher your base strength damage is, the stronger the attack will be. Plasma aura: the effect is a counter to strength builds, if you manage to fight one, they will be intimidated to use their gun more often than their primary. The critical reduction on cyber arts seems alright, a possibility.

ngshuyi94 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/26/2012 8:09:32)
@ drinde Used to be but even so i got 50 less dex than that crazy beast, @ 32-39. Anyway, i've changed to strength now. The point on that post was on enhancements. [;)]

Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/26/2012 10:21:29)
^ That is a GREAT! example of how enahments have lead to many balance issues. Whats anoying is the devs/Balance team actuly think they can control this with rediculous requirements.... Maybe they should look at that pick because you'll notice that that person uses up to date gear EVEN A NON VARIUM wepon and is still able to acheive majar Tank spam. So much for those new wepons requirments. Honestly I am getting sick of repeating myslef IT IS ABOUT TIME, SOME MAJOR CHANGES OCCUR TO BALANCE! How much evidence is needed to prove that enhaments its RUINING THIS GAME?? What I found interesting is when ashari finally disussed a topic about enhacments, she agreed there needed to be changes BUT WHAT SHOCKED ME, is that the changes that they think are needed to be made is a level scaling price..... Yes thats right, enahcmnets will then FORCE every level to use them and practically destroy balance at all levels.. If they are struggling with making money hence why they keep enahcments, then Implement a new feature THAT DOESNT destory balance to make up for it! Id gladly pay my enhamnets amount FOR NOTHING! just to have this feature removed! Or at least remove it from Guns and auxes, things were ok when it was just on primaries and armour.

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