RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 19:15:56)

@ Hun

One of your suggestions was HELO...
Heal regent when damaging, Energy regain when getting damaged...

You don't even need to be smart with numbers to know that would be overpowered ;)



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 19:26:09)

@Trans Ok I understand what you mean now. @Nicolas Or when you have 86 dex and your opponent has 42 but they block! :) @Hun Kingq All multis are equal strength ever since AS was nerfed. Besides your ideas will not balance the BM class they seem fine to me due to the fact even the non-var ones are quite a challenge now and some have beaten me. Besides your ideas will make them OP. Besides andy123 just took the words out of my mouth.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 19:38:19)

Hun, all Multis are equal and you can't say they need to be buffed, or Plasma Rain. What can buff them is Malf/Smoke in 2v2, or you gotta be a TM and CH who have debuff and Multi of same type.
Besides BL + Multi is quite a combo, it is for BHs who have debuff but for Def not Res so BMs shouldn't be any different. Both classes have no passive Armor, have BL, debuff that does not work with Multi, only differences are other skills which do not affect Multi in any way.
To prove BMs are UP'ed, give me average win:lose rate of maybe 5 fights against each Class, preferably Varium and non-Varium. If you lose against Varium mainly, problem is enhancements not the class. If you lose against both, sorry but problem is either your build or in 2v2 would be runners too.



steven11113 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 20:30:16)

i would recommender to increase 3% per level to balance the static charge. Tech mage super charge need nerf down from 2 more damage per lvl rather than 3 or remove Life steal



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 20:39:34)

Static is fine the way it is now with Plasma Armor. Want it to get better? Remove Plasma and you can have old SC back with 44% or whatever it was before all the nerfs! :D

Can people stop picking on balanced classes as well? It's getting quite tiring to see how apparently TMs are too strong, next BHs and in few weeks we'll be probably saying that Mercs are dominating the game. e.e
Removing Life Steal for what? Ultimate Moves have 2 effects (SS and SC) while Massacre is pure damage which gets stronger with your Str and weapon while SS and SC are stat-dependant. SS also steals HP and lowers rage by 50% which is very strategical in most cases, usually even decides between win or lose! SC has ignoring defence (20% IIRC) and 30% life steal just like SS - it's fine how it is.
But if you insist so, can you give me reasoning why SC should be slightly nerfed? I'd say example would be the best and what class/es does it effect. Then we can say how it can be countered, what to do, etc. and come to conclusion that it's either luck, poor build or overexaggeration. :3

PS. Remember, weakening SC will also weaken BMs which are looking for a little buff, not big but Intimidate might change it (after it's revamped) or something.



JohnMenzies -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 20:45:49)

Haven't you guys wondered why Assimilation doesn't give you all the energy that you steal from an enemy Target.

For Example: With Max Assimilation you take 12 energy and receive 6 energy back.

Possible Changes

  • Steals energy from an enemy target, and add 75% instead of 50% energy taken to you your energy pool.
  • Steals energy from an enemy target, and increase added _% of energy taken to your energy pool, as you get a higher level Assimilation.
  • Steals energy from an enemy target and adds all energy taken to your energy pool.




JohnMenzies -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 20:50:19)

@Trans
The only change made to Super Charge should be that it corresponds with Blood lust.

It is rare to see a "Good" Blood Mage use Super Charge without Reflex Boost because of it's lack of working with their other skills.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 20:54:25)

@Trans See this is what I was saying. Ever since the nerf too TLMs. TMs and BMs have created this new OP tech spam build that can easily take us down. Plasma Bolt,Plasma Cannon, and Plasma Rain all improve with tech that is why they are so strong. They usually have 120-140 HP and 100-120+ Energy. With poor dex but the high HP and high damage output makes up for it. Those builds get me and many other TLMs everytime apparently.



Matrix77 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 21:01:43)

@Isaiah - i dont see many BMs running around with plasma bolt and plasma cannon, I see fireball, and berserk....am I missing something here?

IF I may be allow to make an assumption here, from what I see only 1/100 BMs actually uses an SC build...O.o.....

as for lacking in Dex, most BMs have decent dex so idk where the lack in dex comes from unless those you faught were all poor builders...O.o..

As for TMs, any sensible SC build TM will have a quite decent amount of dex, and for those with caster builds at high lvs(33s) and above would have at least some common sense to not leave a wide opening in either def or res so that they can be easily taken down by other classes besides the TLM class if such was the case.

P.S. Just quit it, TLMs have 8month of OP status, now that they balanced out the class, you're all going to complain? If such is the case, all other classes should start complain so they can get their reign of OP like the TLMs too :)

Just for some info, I'm still getting kill by str TLMs without smoke. So shall I complain about them being OP still? No, because they are now balance, they stand as much chance just like the TMs and BMs and BHs except merc. If you say the TLM class don't stand the same chances like the other classes with the exception of CH and Merc, then I think you might wanna go back into game and battle some more and figure out some creative builds that will actually help you see the light :) If other TLMs can adapt, so can you :)



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 21:22:18)

@Matrix First off. I was talking about TMs having Plasma Bolt and Plasma Rain. Second I was talking about BMs having Plasma Cannon and Plasma Rain. Third please quote me saying something about SC in my post. I would love to see it. Fourth again quote me mentioning SC. Fifth we are not balanced out we where nerfed badly. Without smoke I'm beginning to lose a lot why do you think everyone is calling us UP and changing class? Because we are a lot weaker. To weak. Against CHs,BMs, and TMs we are nothing. We can only beat a BHs and Mercs nows. Sixth LOL! TMs, and BMs with their new builds will beat us TLMs anyday. I don't wanna "adapt". I like using a STR build and will continue to do so because it gets fast wins and is an easy build. I don't like long battles that take tons of time and think of some harder build to make. STR TLMs are nearly dead now. I really hope they buff us to a balanced standard soon.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 21:23:40)

You're right, i actually realized the similarity of of TLMs with Ms now :O

Well TLMs still have poison and frenzy, that differs quite a bit from Mercenaries.

But it's kinda true how it's a worthless change of classes.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 21:26:01)

@matrix
Other classes getting their chance in the sun? Let's start with BH, no passive requirements, smoke improves with strength, and SA has 10% deflect again. Any takers?



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 21:27:58)

Meh, BMs work too well in the STR Field, and are too weak in others:

I suggest just using Assimilate to replace Bezerker/Fireball.



JohnMenzies -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 21:36:07)

@IsaiahtheMage
I don't know what you mean by " I really hope they buff us to a balanced standard soon." Tactical Mercenaries are now finally Balanced. Before my chances against them were like 4 out of 10 including Non-Varium users.

You just want Smoke Screen back, because you were beating other classes easily as a non-Varium Tactical Mercenary with your strength build. If you save some credits and enhance your weapons you should have no problem, maybe even try another type of build.



JohnMenzies -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 21:41:15)

@Zman 2
quote:

Other classes getting their chance in the sun? Let's start with BH, no passive requirements, smoke improves with strength, and SA has 10% deflect again. Any takers?


I personally don't agree. The class is current balanced, and with Varium the class is highly effective.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 21:42:11)

@John I want Smoke Screen back because I can't beat these OP CHs,BMs, and TMs anymore. I'm not calling BM and TM OP. But these new builds they have are OP. Besides enhancements? You're joking right? To enhance 4 slots on one weapon it cost 20,000 credits. Besides I'm sticking with this build it gets fast wins and is easy to make. Something I like very much.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 21:44:59)

@john
Yeah I know just trying to point out how the BH class is actually balanced because of all those limitations and nerfs that happened to it. As well as showing how something as small as making smoke improve with strength will make it OP.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 21:48:08)

@zman IMO BH,TM, and BM are balanced. Its just these new OP builds the latter two created that tick me off. Without smoke screen I can't beat them anymore. So I hope those builds of theirs get nerfed or give us our smoke screen back and nerf us some other way maybe make frenzy weaker or whatever. But we are the only class without a debuff skill and we have the weakest buff skill which is totally useless when you fight TM,BM, and especially a CH. And don't forgot Azrael Bot making it completely useless.



Matrix77 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 21:52:01)

@Isaiah- where on earth did "OP" TMs build comes from?? O.o....just to remind you...you're F2P, and with F2P there is bound to be a lot more challenging against P2P players, don't confuse yourself. If you were able to get wins regardless of being a F2P against other P2P and F2P then that is obviously proving the fact how OP TLMs were, and with smoke taken away, its truly now befitting them the name of tactical merc. They need to use some tatics to win, not smoke-->strike-->double/frenzy and win

P.S. - No offences intended



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 22:05:57)

@Matrix I just fought a TM with the build I described a few post ago and when he ran into me he said "another Tac Merc yay!" and after talking to him he said we are easy to beat now. See what I mean. This brand new OP TM build can beat even other lvl 34 full var TLMs. Also yes I was able to beat lvl 34 full vars as long as they weren't CHs or fellow TLMs.

Edit: My bad it wasn't the build I described a few post ago it was the SC build that another person posted before me. This proves that build is indeed OP now.



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 22:18:07)

@Matrix: What the ... SC build is OPED? LOL

Just because you can't beat a build doesn't means it is oped, SC is indeed not oped.



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 22:22:27)

quote:

i would recommender to increase 3% per level to balance the static charge. Tech mage super charge need nerf down from 2 more damage per lvl rather than 3 or remove Life steal

LOL as a cyber hunter with a passive energy shield you can't beat supercharge TMs?
quote:

Can people stop picking on balanced classes as well?

Agreed.
quote:

P.S. Just quit it, TLMs have 8month of OP status, now that they balanced out the class, you're all going to complain? If such is the case, all other classes should start complain so they can get their reign of OP like the TLMs too :)

Agreed too.
quote:

Without smoke I'm beginning to lose a lot why do you think everyone is calling us UP and changing class? Because we are a lot weaker. To weak. Against CHs,BMs, and TMs we are nothing.

LOL time to start using your brain like everyone else :D
"Because we are a lot weaker. To weak." Trololololol lying won't work. Prove it with numbers.
quote:

I don't wanna "adapt". I like using a STR build and will continue to do so because it gets fast wins and is an easy build. I don't like long battles that take tons of time and think of some harder build to make.

LOLOLOL! YOU SAID IT YOURSELF. Don't wanna adapt? Fine, but you can't win. You want fast wins? Alright, but you will have to lose a ton. (obviously you can't win fast AND get high percent without using your brain) You want easy builds? Whatever, but you can't get fast wins.
quote:

You just want Smoke Screen back, because you were beating other classes easily as a non-Varium Tactical Mercenary with your strength build.

Lolpwned. That's exactly what he wanted xD
quote:

I want Smoke Screen back because I can't beat these OP CHs,BMs, and TMs anymore. I'm not calling BM and TM OP. But these new builds they have are OP.

Meh. Try answering honestly next time (not hide something behind). What's missing there? You didn't mention that those builds are your WEAKNESS.
quote:

Besides I'm sticking with this build it gets fast wins and is easy to make. Something I like very much.

The faster and easier builds are, the more weaknesses they have. You cannot have fast+easy wins+high %, cuz that's against the rules (not ED rules). Str TLM and supp TLM (at the beginning) fit these conditions and were officially OP, which drove MANY players away from ED, so don't try to imbalance the game (again).
quote:

My bad it wasn't the build I described a few post ago it was the SC build that another person posted before me. This proves that build is indeed OP now.

Crossed a part that's wrong in that statement. Btw, if you are referring to the high hp high energy dex tank TMs (soudns like my build...hmmm), then I admit it is powerful, but NOT OP, unlike the previous TLM and CH. IT IS BEATABLE WITH STRATEGY NUB. If you play strategically, you can definitely defeat that kind of builds.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 22:37:00)

@AQWPlayer
quote:

LOL as a cyber hunter with a passive energy shield you can't beat supercharge TMs?
Because they are OP.

quote:

LOL time to start using your brain like everyone else :D
"Because we are a lot weaker. To weak." Trololololol lying won't work. Prove it with numbers.
Lying you say? I guess my hundreds of loses I gained within the past 2 days from CHs,BMs, and TMs are all lies I guess.

quote:

LOLOLOL! YOU SAID IT YOURSELF. Don't wanna adapt? Fine, but you can't win. You want fast wins? Alright, but you will have to lose a ton. (obviously you can't win fast AND get high percent without using your brain) You want easy builds? Whatever, but you can't get fast wins.
Actually you can have a easy build that gets fast wins. But at the cost of getting fast loses too.

quote:

Meh. Try answering honestly next time (not hide something behind). What's missing there? You didn't mention that those builds are your WEAKNESS.
They are and they are OP at the same time for obvious reasons such as them considering all TLMs to be easy.

quote:

The faster and easier builds are, the more weaknesses they have. You cannot have fast+easy wins+high %, cuz that's against the rules (not ED rules). Str TLM and supp TLM (at the beginning) fit these conditions and were officially OP, which drove MANY players away from ED, so don't try to imbalance the game (again).
I know that. I wish I could again if they added our smoke screen back. Wanna nerf us go ahead but at least keep our 3 main skills that make us strong (Mineral Armor, Reroute, and Smoke screen).

quote:

Crossed a part that's wrong in that statement. Btw, if you are referring to the high hp high energy dex tank TMs (soudns like my build...hmmm), then I admit it is powerful, but NOT OP, unlike the previous TLM and CH. IT IS BEATABLE WITH STRATEGY NUB. If you play strategically, you can definitely defeat that kind of builds.
Then how can I stand a chance against TLM and CH but stand no chance against them? They usually hit in the 60s when they use SC.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 23:00:27)

I think the main reason for TLMs to lose smoke was to decrease the STR TLM population in ED. TLM was almost STR packed with their frenzy, reroute, smoke, and ability to heal loop(OPTIONAL!). The idea was probably to stop those kind of builds and for once make TLMs shape into another kind of builds that differ from the long-lasting str build that occupied most of the TLM population.

Due to this, to make sure TLM does not completely lose their str builds, Field Commander was added, and with that the STR build for TLM wouldn't be 'extinct'. You may argue towards this reasoning but this is only a inference from what the TLMs received as a nerf towards STR builds.

But the fact that this class lost its only debuff skill is quite weird, but I'm sure that the balance team has calculated the effect of this nerf, and obviously mean they have reason and their own explanation in making this process :)



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/3/2012 23:03:12)

^

Also I would like to add Double Strike and the former Maul skill of the TacM class.

Many many opportunities to administer the Primary weapon.



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