RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 11:22:00)

@Isaiah
Well when we had old HA, my Merc was kinda in between about cutting it into two and making into fixed skill. I currently like it as it works with P or E Armor, depending on your build really. It mainly opened more build possibilities and wasn't too strong either. I'm mainly interested into Dev's opinion about that, and perhaps what they think of old CH skill-tree.
Hmm, I see your point of why HA might not be good - does it tie in with CHs being currently OP'ed and you losing against them too? As TM, Varium too, I lose to them as well so I do know how you feel. Mercs don't feel good about HA either, they are fine with how it is but some say it could use small buff which could make it better for you. It's passive Armor afterall, it's not meant to be too strong like skills as it doesn't cost turn, no EP/HP cost, and cannot be debuffed.

Heh, we have constructive discussion here. xD



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 11:25:58)

@Trans Yeah the new TMs with this new SC build are very hard to beat. I don't think +6 res would help very much. I'm fine with 5 less def because my def is already high. SC build TMs and Plasma Bolt + Plasma Rain build TMs are nearly unstoppable. I'm talking 29-35 def for the SC TMs and 37-45 res for the PB + PR TMs. My new STR + poison build can't stop them.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 11:33:10)

Hmm, SC build isn't new although was used much more after evolved classes were implemented to counter them. So if you don't mind Def, then +6 Res would still make difference - it's 6 damage per turn from Energy attacks, passive, and can still save you. If you had Technican back and it gave you +30 Tech, it's equal to about +7 Res - you could say that's something and say it'd save you but +6 and passive is the same and no turns wasted. ;D
I remember you saying about Caster builds, although really Tankified (110ish HP and 100 EP) which is quite weird at higher Lvls. They put a lot of stats into Energy thus reducing power of their skills but you can counter that with Atom Smasher, at least a bit. My alts fight them more often, CH uses EMP, Merc has Bunker and Multi so nothing and same with TLM as I have Sword not Maul. But against that build, HA would work better +6 Res would be 18 damage less taken if they use 3 Energy skills. You get Energy back via Reroute, and go for Heal/Frenzy.

quote:

I'm talking 29-35 def for the SC TMs and 37-45 res for the PB + PR TMs. My new STR + poison build can't stop them.

Lolwhut? o.o I'd need more info about them as it seems like they have minimal STR and Support to achieve that + high HP and Energy. I fought few of these players but with SC and better stats, so a bit lower defences but still deadly for my TM who Heals before their SC to survive. I'm Support TM so I also struggle but manage to win most of the time, it's all about strategy there and when to use right skills.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 11:43:55)

@Trans Alright I guess it would be helpful that's -6 energy damage per turn. And it is passive so I guess it would help.

quote:

Lolwhut? o.o I'd need more info about them as it seems like they have minimal STR and Support to achieve that + high HP and Energy. I fought few of these players but with SC and better stats, so a bit lower defences but still deadly for my TM who Heals before their SC to survive. I'm Support TM so I also struggle but manage to win most of the time, it's all about strategy there and when to use right skills.

They do. They usually have 120-140 HP. 90-100 energy. 29-35 def or 37-45 res whether they use a SC or a PB + PR build. Therefore they either suck in tech or def but their huge damage output and high HP makes up for the huge damage they take in. I'm surprised I'm the only one who has been fighting them?



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 11:52:57)

@Isaiah
No, you're not the only one fighting that kind of OP builds (yes I am admitting that a build for my own class is OP D:). There's this dude called ICEN that had 140 hp, 100+ ep, about 19+7 min def and 36 min res with high level plasma bolt and plasma rain. It owns in 2v2, BUT it requires specific weapons :P (beta set)



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 11:54:56)

@Isaiah
I ran a quick comparison using my items, kinda strange but that's possible at Lvl 34.. Maybe 2-3 points less in Def and Res but possible. If they have Reroute then it's harder but it's mainly fully enhanced players who can do it. Btw, I ran it with 110HP instead.
Without Reroute, you can counter them with Atom Smasher so they can use their skills at least less, as their damage output with weapons is most likely going to suck.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:02:38)

@Trans Their damage with their weapons does suck and they are always lvl 34 full vars and many of them do have beta weapons. But their PB and PR does a lot of damage and they always have reroute and since they take in so much damage they regain so much energy every hit. They have unlimited energy. I will say they are above CHs now IMO. 80 damage on PB and 70 damage on PR with unlimited energy meaning it can be used over and over again! This is madness.



Prime Assassin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:07:37)

^ caster mages get emped ALOT and any str tlm (with phys wep) and str bh (with phys wep) pwns casters.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:13:14)

@Prime Yeah but you won't take much damage from CHs since your tech is crazy high. And we STR TLM take a lot of damage from energy attacks as our res is usually low. STR BH might stand a chance because of smoke and bloodlust aside from that I don't see how they can take being hit by PB and PR and survive unless they have energy shield but that always you too rage faster.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:14:30)

TechMages aren't Overpowered... It's the items used with a class that Makes it OP.

Beta's all have +10 enhancements and no requirement making them the perfect weapons for skill abuse...

Remove those weapons and you'd see a lot more balance imo (not happening)



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:14:44)

@Isaiah
Sorry but you're seriously overexaggerating.. I just used Tesla Armor E + Beta items to see how much damage they get. 33 Str is needed for max PB so that's a bit less in Tech/Dex. Used 140 HP and 100 EP.
PB - 70 (Lvl 10)
PR - 62 (Lvl 10)
SC - 59-67 (Lvl 5)
Reroute at Lvl 7.

Now take your Resistance and take it away from the damage. You probably do have at least 20 Resistance if not more so that's already a lot less damage.
Second, not everyone use full Beta and same build. It's few players maybe, you cannot say that it's imbalance but blame items and enhancements instead.
Third, EMP and Atom can counter that easily. Reroute will regenerate that but key is to Tank by using Atom + Heal as TLM. After their Energy is pretty much gone, just kill them.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:22:15)

tech mage isn't OP.
i had a non var CH (which is OP) beat me by using double EMPs.


quote:

3 Str is needed for max PB so that's a bit less in Tech/Dex.

no actually PB doesn't have a 34 str requirement.
(u go by assumptions alot trans) and the energy requirement isn't 33 now. they lowered it to 29.



Prime Assassin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:24:08)

@isaiah my build is op yes but it has many weaknesses. it;s not as strong as u may think. ch also use physcial weps noticed alot have that new physical aux and it hits good dmg against me. your class tlm kills me the mot out of every class it's no where near uped.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:24:19)

quote:


There are plans to eventually give each of the evolved classes a new ultimate skill to replace Super Charge, Massacre and Surgical Strike for example -- that's to make the classes feel more unique, so the evolved and original classes aren't so similar. However, we can't usually make changes just for the sake of making changes, especially when it risks knocking the classes back off balance.

Some people were against massacre being restored to its original power because it would make CH stronger, so if they are getting a new ultimate does that mean there is a chance of massacre being restored to full power?
quote:

I have an idea ....
How about instead of people force to play 24/7 just for a weapon and its enhancements , there will be a system called "Upgrading" , whereas i need to do stuff to get my current weapon to become stronger and used for next levels? There are a few ways to do it :
1) Through "Farming" :
Example : Mjolnir --> Mjolnir 2
Objective : Collect 355 Energy Cores from Shadow Guards ( 100% drop rate ) and 10 Energy Boosters .
*Can only be done once . If you ever sell the upgraded Mjolnir , this mission is replayable . Oh , BTW , you get no Varium from selling the upgraded weapon even though it is buyable with Varium .
2) Through Direct Purchase :
Example # 1 : Caden's Curse --> Caden's Wrath
Upgrade Requirements : Character Level 28 and 1500 Credits .

Example # 2 : Toxic Chompers --> whatever strong weapon you might think if in the future that fits into its design
Upgrade Requirements : 2 Bio Blades , Character Level ( insert any level above 34 ) and 3500 Credits .

Some questions that might be in your mind ( i hope ) that needs answers :
Q : What if i upgraded a weapon with enhancements already ?
A: Then you get a free "re-enhance" . The amount of points you've enhanced will the amount that is free . If you enhance more points , then it will charge you the same price ( as of current )

Q: Wait , how would i know if a weapon is upgraded?
A: There will be a sign that will tell you that it's upgraded .

Q: What's the sign?
A: If you go to Inventory and selected the upgraded weapon , it will show that it has a "symbol" that represents the upgrade level .

Q: What's the purpose of this ?
A: It was stated in the first place that people are forced to do 24/7 just for one item's optimal power . Plus , to save money at low levels by preserving with this system and to give the game a new twist .

Q: Is it for only Non-Vars and for Non-Var gear?
A: No , it's for everybody and every equipment.

I like it, but can it only be done once or can it be done multiple times for one weapon.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:28:56)

@zman Probably not because Ultimates aren't supposed to be a skill you only need at lvl 1 to be good with. A lvl 1 Massacre should not be better than any other lvl Ultimate yet it often is. Since the change in it, people have been investing more points into it which was supposed to be the case all along.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:29:07)

Sorry then gold, I use ED Sheet from Strategy forum and it says 33 on mine so don't blame me for that. Btw I put 33, not 34 or 3 like you said.. And Energy requirement? I was on about Str needed, Energy is taken care of by Reroute.
And yes I do go by assumptions which Isaiah gave me to prove the point, it's better than making stupid argument like saying "Intimidate is OP'ed! NERF IT NAO!"



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:38:11)

quote:

Sorry then gold, I use ED Sheet from Strategy forum and it says 33 on mine so don't blame me for that. Btw I put 33, not 34 or 3 like you said.. And Energy requirement? I was on about Str needed, Energy is taken care of by Reroute.
And yes I do go by assumptions which Isaiah gave me to prove the point, it's better than making stupid argument like saying "Intimidate is OP'ed! NERF IT NAO!"

u mean to tell me u dont know ur own class so u go search it in the wiki?

/facepalmwithbrick



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:40:37)

I don't use the skill, never trained it? Problem with that? It changed twice, requirements. I use sheet to make builds, might be outdates so not my problem. I don't see your point, wanna troll simply? Wrong forum.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:43:54)

@trans
u never trained it, but u dont need to train it to see if it has requirements or not.
u seem to be talking about the build alot yet u have no knowledge of it. (as u have admitted urself)

i can see why primal talked to u like that, in the other thread.

anyway dont get mad can call this being a troll. because it ins't.
ur the one who made a mistake, not me.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:51:34)

@Trans Then you must not have done something right. I saw a TM with 80 damage at lvl 10 PB and 70 damage at lvl 10 PR.

Besides I never said TM is OP I know it isn't. Its just this new build they have combined with Beta weapons makes them OP. The weapons is the main problem if what you said is true that Beta weps have 10 enhancements. Then that truly is the key to the problem.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:54:43)

@isaia
the key to those builds is beta weapons, simply because they have no requirements.

but remember that after those attacks are gone.
the damage output of these mages becomes 3.
2 EMPs is enough to severely nullify a techmage strategy.
3 is complete overkill. most people just dont know how to react thats why they keep loosing. and thus the complains.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:57:43)

@goldslayer1 Yes but we TLMs don't have EMP. Even if I use atom smasher they still have enough energy left for one PB or PR. And after I attack them and do 30-40 damage they have enough energy for the next energy attack dropping me to about 30-40 HP. And once they gain enough energy for the next attack I'm dead.



Prime Assassin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 12:57:47)

@isaia beta weps are lvl 25 weps lol . there not op. all betas are for is stats. the caster mage is useless without mana. and even thou i have 130 mana 4-5 rounds it's gone never mind atom smash and emp on top of that.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 13:02:19)

quote:

Yes but we TLMs don't have EMP. Even if I use atom smasher they still have enough energy left for one PB or PR. And after I attack them and do 30-40 damage they have enough energy for the next energy attack dropping me to about 30-40 HP. And once they gain enough energy for the next attack I'm dead.


raise ur atom or ur str. (maybe a combo of both might be better.)
anyway they these tech mages are low on dex, so chances are u will most likely hit the atom.
2-3 atoms should do fine, just make sure to have a decent heal. use frenzy on rage. and keep taking energy away.
once his energy is gone, he is very easy to beat.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/4/2012 13:08:02)

@Goldslayer1 I'll try it because without their energy they are very easy to beat.



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