RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/21/2012 18:51:52)
Technican was taken out from TLM skill tree due to synergy with Smoke and Bot which gave great amount of damage. Smoke is gone so Technican is fine now. TMs have Technican and yet it ain't the problem? It was simply Smoke which was the problem before. ES not improving by anything? You're gonna have to change Defense Matrix owned by CHs and TMs as well because you cannot touch one and leave the same skill but opposite defence untouched. And that weakens TMs even further - Support loses its use for 2 classes; TMs will have just Malf and so will CHs. I'm against that completely - Support is weak enough already and you're adjusting balanced classes - TMs* and BHs - which is unnecessary. We gotta look at the whole picture and look which skills are owned by what class before we touch them in a major way. Mind that, if ES is changed then Support is useless for BHs completely because it's the only skill that improves by Support in their skill tree. * It's balanced, but it's the abusers who make good use out of it but that will be stopped.

JohnMenzies -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/21/2012 19:47:15)
Has anyone thought about why Blood Lust isn't 25% when Blood Lust is at Max?

Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/21/2012 19:52:03)
What does that have to do with anything? 2% isn't much, essentially 2HP per 100 damage dealt but as game round up on BL, you'd need to deal 26 damage or more to get that 1HP difference or 51+ to get 2 more HP. That is in one attack. And perhaps it was in relation of how Reroute works as well as how HP:EP is compared - HP is needed to survive therefore it's more valueable than EP and %s regained by BL need to be kept lower & Reroute is opposite so %s are slightly higher than BL's because you will not last longer in fights (enemy attacks your HP, not EP).

drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/21/2012 22:57:33)
Another option to nerf STR: Make Gun's cooldown 3 turns, and Aux cooldown 2 turns. This would make up for the Support nerf and reduce STR's efficiency.

Zeruphantom -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/21/2012 23:24:05)
And then my high support build (56 + 31) would reign supreme. Mwahahah... cough ...

drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/21/2012 23:27:00)
At least it wouldn't be able to deal 30+ DMG every single turn, like those STR users.

Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/21/2012 23:38:22)
Trans , get ready to be embarrassed you will see my character build page showing you the dex and the Plasma rain Potential damage. http://tinypic.com/r/20apfef/5 Right click on the image and zoom in so you can see it clearly. If a player has resistance 20 and below I should be getting 55+ damage not 35 to 47. With my Dex that high I should be blocking more often then I am and my regular strikes should be able to connect more but when I have max reflex boost on and still no blocks and the damage from physical attacks is not lessened that skill is inefficient for the Blood Mage Class and something needs to be done with it. With Dex that high the potential damage should be a lot higher then 80 and the damage on players with low resistance should not be a constant 35 to 47 damage range.

ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/21/2012 23:42:30)
@hun Now can you show us the damage it does against an enemy and how much resistance they had as well while you're at it?

Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/21/2012 23:49:37)
Now basically I see a few people shooting down others' ideas and everybody else just supports their own class. Archlord has a point. CH is balanced. If anything, remove Statix Charge altogether. Put in something weaker -.- TM is perfect. BM -- I haven't lost a single Jugg for a while. The rest are obvious. This is discussion, not suggestion. Suggestions go in the Suggestions, I believe we should discuss.

drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/21/2012 23:54:50)
Archlord?

Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 0:25:17)
ArchLord Raistlin, previous pg.

Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 1:17:49)
If anything, STATIC shouldn't be touched unless buffed. But that's only if we lose PA which i look forward to, it's seemingly hard to construct builds when PA and SC together takes up a lot of skill pts. Not to mention malf and SA at times. And Hun King, as ND says it's not applicable nor showing any evidence when you do not include the damage done and to what certain RES it is done to, i look forward to seeing that because before i have done 2v2 as a Bounty, my starter class. And Reflex Boost does make a significant improvement in blocks, defense, and dmg output/ input.

Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 5:52:46)
Oh? So it is possible. Then I don't get why Thylek's Excel Sheet shows stat diminishing on skills as it improves by 5, 6 and then 7 points at certain ranges. But still you don't prove the point - you say that you deal 30-40 damage only - tip for you: watch out for CHs with high Res and PA or with high Res, E Armor and PA - it will deal much less damage. And psst, if any other players use things like Energy Shield then of course your Multi will deal less damage. But as ND said, give us proof you deal that 35-45 damage which is easily done with 2 screenshots - one at the beggining of the battle and 2nd when you cast Plasma. PS. You do know Plasma Rain does 2 hits on enemy, not 1? I mean, the 2nd hit might be your missing damage. @Wraith Support their own class? That's totally not aimed at anyone who does that here.

ReV3nGe -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 6:47:11)
Removing Robots completely will balance ALOT.though I know its not possible because of Varium

Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 8:44:48)
Arevero, Trans wrote it was impossible to get 50 Dex and 80 potential damage, so to show him and everyone it is possible. Trans, yes I do know it is hitting two targets but I have notice that when multis hit majority of time it is exactly the same damage. One match my team he had a tech build I have the Dex build Artillery strike both of us exactly 55 damage. Many times I have seen exactly 45 damage on both players where one had low tech one had high tech. I do know the total amount of resistance is to be subtract from the total damage potential and I can do that quickly without a calculator. If the program is looking at two players as one and if that is the case then the code needs to be looked at to see why it is viewing two targets as one. You seen in the picture my defense, if an artillery strike has 73 potential damage should they get above 50 damage every time or below? If everyone wants proof become a blood mage go into 2vs2 and see for yourself I have been in more 2vs2 then any of you combined. If you are a tech mage get Dex the highest it could go max Plasma Rain without malfunction and see for yourself. The multis need to be looked at as part of balance and if they are not scaling to get the proper damage output then they need to be adjusted.

Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 8:55:27)
Pics or it didn't happen. Simple as. I can say Plasma Bolt is also UP, I don't deal enough damage and yet Multi does more in 2v2 (it hits 2 people). Sorry but we need a proof not your poibts which tend to be even made up. If you want to get your point across, let our point get across to you either rather than "defend" your own class like Wraith said and seek for unnecessary buffs you want at cost of nerfing other classes. This is discussion, if you're one sided then what you do isn't discussing. I just seen your edit, Hun, and I had Multi build on my TM last week. Damage ranges were right - I had much less Dex, around 130, and I was dealing same range as you were with lower amount of Dex. Of course, that depended on Resistance of the enemy and I hit more if I critted or raged. Unless you post pictures, what you say is bunch of made up facts with no real proof that the range is wrong. We've seen the 80 potential damage, now screenshot enemy's resistance and when you cast Multi then we can talk.

PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 12:15:05)
@Hun Kingq: I explained why you do the same damage on players with different resistance. the damage range of your Plasma Rain, the resistance range of your enemy, and crits ignore 50% resistance, so the less resistance they have, the less that is ignored by a crit.

steven11113 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 15:44:14)
OVerall i think blood mage need a bit of a nerf and mercency still need a buff still they should change from improving strength on blood mage to dex or supp. the rage passive skill on mercency make u get more rage but after the rage, the ememy get the rage. i would think to decrease the ememy rage so they wont get rage after ur rage

BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 15:53:58)
Remove Phy shield from blood mage , that and weaken makes it quite op

Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 16:03:41)
Reflex you mean? Impossible. Every class requires a skill to defend against Physical and Energy attack - let it be Passive and a Shield/Buffer, or whatever combination you want. You can scratch that idea already, it won't be happening. But why would you take out skill that's in the last Tier and is only used by Caster BMs who aren't even OP? That + above is enough to back up my point for now. ;) Intimidate and Reflex make it OP because it improves by Support? I haven't seen OP BM build apart from Str abuse, where do you see other ones? Support BM is almost non-existant because it improves defensive skills - Intimidate doesn't affect enemy's defences but Str so less damage dealt = higher defences. Only ones are Str, Tech and Dex BMs which can work, Str being the OP one and other 2 being fairly balanced.

rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 17:41:36)
Guys, a max PA and and MAX SC on CH's is EXTREMELY common. Why? Because it is usually the only way to win. I use a level 7 PA, MAX SC, high Dex (90+45=135) and 4 SA with 6 multi shot. This makes me a Tank. A lot of Cybers are like me, and why? Because this is one of the best builds we have! I agree with EVERYONE here that PA needs taken away. Replace PA with Technician like the original Cybers were and make SC back to 44% This will END everyone whining about Cybers being OP when we have had WAY too many nerfs! I consider the PA a nerf to cybers that want to make a unique build. We ALL have to have Strength builds to get a really somewhat decent SC. I have seen Cybers with 20-24 primary only gain 18 energy back. Here is the formula so you will see it is right. on the 20 end... 20+34(high primary weapon)=54. 5429%=15.66=16 energy back! on the 24 end... 24+34=58. 5829%=16.82=17 energy gained back. So a high strength Cyber only gets back 16-17 energy! Being a low strength Cyber, you only get 12-13 energy gained back (this is with 9-11 primary damage) And this is with a 2 TURN cooldown WITH a blockable chance. So...good luck fighting the High Dex cybers like me. Because you will gain back only a LIttle bit of energy. Which brings me back to this conclusion. Why do ya think that Cybers are becoming High Dexerity? High Dexerity allows us to hit and regain energy W/O our opponent Cyber gaining energy. Conclusion, this class needs a MAJOR Berf (half buff half nerf) Get rid of PA, replace with Technician, make SA buffed a bit more. Like, 8% more block chance at max with 8% more chance for crit chance. This will also help the BHs. There...this topic is over.

Ez_Ease -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 20:22:29)
The one thing I am really getting tired of is when someone first wants to call you a noob for healing, then say you are weak and suk, to finally saying you are a hacker and you are reported. I cant help that you lost to me and I am a lvl 32 while this person was a 34 BM and goes by the name (comicalmage) I do not need to hack anyone and I have a job and life. I have lost to people lower lvl than myself and never had a need to call them a noob or hacker because they are doing what is prudent to win. Okay I am better now had to vent. :-) look people most of my fights are drawn out and I try to wear you down. I am not fighting to be on the leader board not important to me, this is just a game I enjoy and play but some of you have a bad attitude when it comes to losing it is part of life. Get use to it, learn from it, then grow from it. Have a great day. P.S. I go by "Forget you man"

Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 22:20:44)
@^: And you're suggesting...? First of all, we CH Agree: 1) SC needs a buff. At least back to normal 2) Plasma Armor removed and replaced with either E. Shield (improves with something other than SUP), or Technician. (I'm more in favor of Technician, unless E. Shield improves with DEX. 3?) Shadow Arts -> Deadly Aim Swap? Any opinions? (Shadow Arts from us to Deadly Aim from BM)

Dreiko Shadrack -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 22:32:19)
^ Hmmm, losing deadly aim for shadow arts on BM? that'd be interesting.

PoiZen -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/22/2012 22:42:00)
Cybers are most OP becuase of emp. With everything a cyber has (Resist +11 armor, static charge, ,malf, emp and more) I think other classes don't have much chance when fighting a Cyber with emp. Mostly mages will have an issue with the +11 resist and malf Cybers have but mostly, I think a cyber is too powerful when it comes to emp. I think there are very few mages, blood mages, mercs, bounty hunters and even tactical mercs who can win because a Cyber can tank and wait for static charge and heal to be ready while using emp to make sure the other classes can't do the samething or do more damage. So I think Cyber is a good class but emp ontop of the other skills a Cyber has makes emp OP on Cyber hunters. As a CH, you can do good damage on a str BM and they have to hit and shoot you with good block and deflect chances. There is the loop hole there and a Cyber Hunter most likely will have higher dex and tech. I even think if static charge didn't do damage but always works and they didn't have emp would be way better.

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