RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 7:42:02)

quote:

Zerk becoming Bludgeon, might even do the exact opposite of what we are trying to achieve. O.o


Aye, and we must hope that some innovative BM does not seize the opportunity to uncover yet another abusive build.

For the Cyber Situation:

With Plasma Armor, they've pretty much turned into turtles (no offense, its an expression). If we'd open up the space and put in a skill like Tran's Conduction, I think they'd function much better. But instead of making it reduce points directly, what if it reduced them by %?

But with Conduction, Malfunction needs to go. As said tons of times by others, Energy Shield can be slid here.



Frost Snake -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 7:52:40)

I know this is of topic but ive sold the same emerald 50 times now and every time ive goten the 190 credits for it :/ is that meant to happen or?



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 7:55:56)

How about...a support-improving ultimate for CH? A new tech-improving one for Tactical? And a dex-improving one for BM?



gangster a -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 7:57:12)

^ since the arcade has gone emeralds have been introduced as a way of getting creds and yes it is supposed to happen there is a percentage of the drop rate though.The perfect emeralds are worth 400 creds.



Frost Snake -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 8:02:59)

no i said the 'Same emerald' ive had one emerald in my inventory for ages and ive sold it 50 times and ive goten the 190 for it every time



gangster a -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 8:05:09)

well that is probably the most common one there are other rare ones that you could get its about luck.



Frost Snake -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 8:08:36)

What im saying is, There is a problem with the sell items thingie.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 8:11:13)

Plasma Armor is staying, got it confirmed so problem IS EMP. Since PA is there, E Shield isn't needed but Malf needs to if Devs think it's good - PA and reducing Tech gives them Tank defences and Deflections which is not fair because TLMs cannot do that with Mineral. Conduction is best choice but values would be to be adjusted by Devs if needed to and % reduction is a no. It gives less power than it should at low Res (PA isn't counted. If % reduction exists) and numbers are best.
Matrix and EMP must swap places - Matrix is Tier 1 for TMs and EMP is Tier 2 for BHs, why was it even switched? And EMP needs change either way, it's too strong for CHs so fixed numbers AND/OR much smaller improvement would fit. Smaller = +1/8 Tech?



gangster a -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 8:11:23)

^ no there isnt its just luck you got the emeralds more times then me i only get it twice every few weeks.



Frost Snake -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 8:16:28)

ganster a i dont get cut at people easy but, you are so thick headed! if you read, i have had the 'SAME' emerald For ages And every time i sell it, it comes back i have sold it over 50 times now.


DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME NOW?



gangster a -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 8:19:55)

^ thick- headed? your the one whos thick i have told you for the 4th time already and if it isnt luck then it must be a bug in that case you should post in the bug section have a nice day.



Frost Snake -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 8:22:57)

gangster if you read over the posts you did not say that once :') so yeah im going now for the soul reason that i dont liike arguing with people over a game. Especialy when your wrong



gangster a -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 8:24:59)

^ and in future you shouldnt call people thick when they are trying to help you



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 8:25:33)

@Trans

Who confirmed it, and WHY?!



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 8:31:09)

Guys, Emeralds have nothing to do with it. Continue over PM llease.

Drinde, Lycus said they are doing much better (balanced) after SC nerf so we can just expect minor changes at most. It's safe to assume it'll stay really.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 8:47:07)

^

1. Please, not llease.

2. Now, I feel, the classes aren't really the problem. Its the STAT that's the problem.

STR, STR, STR. Chunks and chunks of it.

I suggested:

A) Gun Cooldown swap with Aux Cooldown
B) Strike DMG diminish with each use
C) DMG Caps

What are your comments?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 9:17:23)

Well I'm on my phone so sorry..

Stat dimibishing will come so abusing will stop if problem is stats. Maybe tomorrow as the said "balance tweakS" so let's hope.
As of to weapon options, neither. Swap Aux cooldown and you must restat all Auxes; their damage is higher because of bigger cooldown and giving it 2 turns will be swapping Gun and Aux which isn't needed.
I don't know how to solve it, I'm sorry for lack of feedback.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 10:52:49)

quote:

Aye, and we must hope that some innovative BM does not seize the opportunity to uncover yet another abusive build.

I am levelling a BM, [she is level 27 now] and since we found out Bludgeon would replace Berzerker, I have been playing with that
on my mind. To me I think BM will go from 2 turn build to 3 turn build. [I know they don't 2-3 turn everyone, it's just a guideline]

it might be enough to give others a chance during the battle, but I doubt it's gonna lead to a mass exodus from the class.



lol at this quote from Lycus. hard to believe anyone playing the game could make that statement.
quote:

For anyone it's unclear to, I'm referring to the last CH nerf, currently there is no plan for another, since they have a fair ratio with the other classes!



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 10:58:03)

Heh. I can think up some....

spoiler:

YOU THINK I WILL DESTROY BALANCE FOR YOU?! >.< THIS WILL STAY SECRET!


Hmmm. Three turn, eh. There is a pretty dangerous 4-Turner in my mind, but it's gonna take.... actually, not that much change. Oh well, back to EMP looping.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 11:00:55)

@Drinde: against well geared players you are likely to be using 4+ turns anyway, but the general idea will be to 3 turn as many players as possible.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 11:52:49)

I have time to post ideas so huzzah!

I was thinking...

Passives.

Well, regarding my favourite Tech Mage + Bounty Hunter hybrid... Cyber Hunter, I produced some suggestions, theories, and questions.

To start off, Technology is the influencing factor of Resistance. Well, Plasma Armour giving a player Resistance IS proportionally equal to some amount of Technology. Passive skills are not required in battle, but they sure do award favourable benefits! I could not find a level capped player without using a passive skill in battles within an hour's timeframe. This must mean that it is safe and completely normal to say that level capped players ALWAYS use a passive skill, max charge or less. Well, I should investigate one of my own passive skills then, correct? If I want to be sensitive to my fellow players of course.

Well, in Plasma Armour, certain benefits and disadvantages exist. They do clash and I will further this argument of mine. Plasma Armour passively protects from a given amount of energy damage each and every turn (excepting rage). Plasma Armour defaces some of the need to have Technology, permitting such players to administer Dexterity, since Static Charge (a fundamental skill), and other melee-related attacks... would need to hit... so, accuracy. The problem with a fundamental passsive for a fundamental active, is that multiple synergy issues will grow with experience. For one of these issues, if Technology is lessened by Plasma Armour's Resistance (as Cyber Hunters have no health-offensive skill improving by Technology to attack with)... Technology's overall performance regarding deflections, Robots, and skills are all undermined in comparison to other classes. I in my utmost judgement of Plasma Armour, vouch that the skill is an hurtful of equal opportunity throughout all players, ESPECIALLY since it being a passive skill would therefor be principle in combat nature. Having Plasma Armour around is demotivating to utilize Technology, and Technology being the choice route to some people.

Developers perceive/conceive that Plasma Armour on Cyber Hunters is fine when EMP is not. That is a fair proof if EMP halts the skill strategies of opponents. But, energy is not health, and you would not require energy to survive (absolutely), however it is true... Cyber Hunters even more than Tactical Mercenaries are able to control energy at ease with Static Charge and EMP Grenade. I do not even believe that Cyber Hunters should need EMP though, because Static Charge is a very convenient skill opposed to Reroute where the player must wait for the opponent to damage their HEALTH, and health being a deciding attribute to any battle.

I was thinking, aside from placing a VERY strong Technician or simply Energy Shield in Plasma Armour's place due to many implications of synergy... some new or in some people's cases old skills...

Restoration passives. For these skills, one meter (health, energy, rage) will replenish by a given amount... for a rough example, 10 energy back each turn for a level 10 passive.



frogbones -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 13:05:58)

If the devs think CH is balanced, they are CLUELESS!

For the hundredth time, remove or signifigantly nerf EMP and Cybers will be balanced.




Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 13:25:43)

I PM'ed Ashari to discuss the whole EMP problem seeing that Plasma is staying.. Power-wise, CHs are better now as they are beatable so that's balanced but skill wise, it's OP due to stupid EMP.. >.>
CHs would be better if EMP was changed to "better" Assimilate which would be their unique skill - takes away a bit more Energy than Assimilate BUT you don't get any of it. Of course it can miss so that'd be the drawback and wouldn't be that OP.

Just take the damn EMP away, if BMs can live with no EP draining skill, CHs should even more due to having Plasma Armor and SC to tank®ain. <_<



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 13:26:29)

I think actually playing the game regularly is more important than the balance tracker, as any balance issues don't just increase/decrease win rates, they
also effect the win rates of the other classes too, in many ways. Some classes counter the strength BM better than others, and as theirs so many of them,
it looks like that class is doing better than it might actually be doing. nothing better than first hand experience to see how classes are performing.

can we have some screenshots of the balance tracker? would be nice to know how the information is presented to you.

I have so many questions.
what class is beating Cyber Hunters the most in 1v1?
are mercs really performing as well as the other classes in 1v1?
which class is winning the most in 2v2?




Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 13:32:04)

Also heads up for Mercs around, and hint in Dev's tweet with "balance tweakS" could've been this:
quote:

They're winning about the same percentage as almost all the other classes apart from Merc and BM which will be updated soon of course - so there must be a lot of people with counter builds for CH's :)

This is quote from my discussion with Lycus earlier. So possibly the balance tweaks are BM for sure and Mercs with this update, that is BM nerf (maybe more than Bludgeon or something else?) and Merc buff of course.
CHs are beatable now, I will agree with what data shows but it's just so annoying when you're EMP looped whenever that is possible and cannot deal enough damage to even fight back. EMP is strategical skill but please, looping it about 5-6 times in one battle even is overkill. >_>



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