RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/26/2012 22:16:12)

You know enough to support the Almighty Drinde. :P

In truth, what is the % for each class now according to the Balance Tracker?



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:11:40)

I will repeat myself even if it doesn't work, BUT PA NEEDS TO BE TAKEN AWAY.

Unless the MODS want CH to be a tank/boring/EMP spam/slow class, THEN SO BE IT. But PA IS hindering us CHs WAYYY TO MUCH. Sure we win evenly, but SOME of us find these wins BORING AND ALMOST STRATEGIC-LESS. Honestly, i want the best for CHs in not one or 2 stats, BUT IN EVERY STAT, every stat deserves attention in every class, and currently for CH, TECH and STR is taking over, SUP is almost rendered useless, if PA isn't taken away, it will STOP creative builds, what happened to the once Diverse ED i once knew of???

And if EMP began to be a problem when PA was introduced, WHY NOT REVERSE THE ACTION DONE. Is that too hard to see?
And don't forget lower levels, THEY CANNOT COMPREHEND 10PTS INTO PA WHILE TRYING TO FIT IN TO HAVE OTHER SKILLS.

I am sorry but PA is really taking a turn for me as to stay CH or change. CH will eb destroyed sooner or later by PA, regardless of what issue that comes up, PA is always the cause or as 'by-stander', EMP problem related to PA, Tanking related to PA, high STR yet low dmg intake-related to PA, ALL THE COMPLAINTS OF CH OPness--->PA. I mean, we CHs all accepted it as best idea for PA to be taken, what happened now?




Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:21:49)

PA is staying, get over it.. Of course people fought for it to leave but if it has to stay, there's other way around it and you brough PA on yourselves, it was you, CHs, who wanted a buff (passive) so don't moan once you got it and say that you don't want it.

There are ways around how to tweak CHs to be still creative but balanced, fighting for one thing is pointless if you have it confirmed that everything is staying unless an issue comes up. Only issue is EMP loops, that's it.

And they don't have to have Lvl 10 PA, +1 Res is too small to make a difference. My CH keeps it at Lvl 8 instead for sake of other skills and I still find it enough as it gives me points for other skills. Same with Mineral, maxing it isn't needed early on.

quote:

it will STOP creative builds, what happened to the once Diverse ED i once knew of???

It's still there, you just turned into CH. <_< Go Bounty, TM or Mercenary - these are creative classes.. Besides no one is forcing you to use PA, find other build without using PA, that will be creative. Fact you must use PA means that you're making yourself bored of CHs and Technican wasn't as strong to make big difference in skills so you will live without Res defensive skill.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:22:43)

What if:

PA costs no energy, but requires a turn to activate, and lasts two turns?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:24:13)

Then change Mineral along with it, and Hybrid Armor as well. They are same skills but changed numbers, wanna weaken Mercs too?



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:30:42)

No don't do that but still. Trans everybody who post on this forum know that PA is and always will be the problem. SC wasn't even a problem until PA came along. This is ridiculous. I fail to see why the balance team stubbornly cling to this passive armor skill they call a solution. It's not a solution. It just shows how incredibly thoughtless they were being before they implemented said skill.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:32:55)

@Trans

All passive armors ruin a class in the end, hybrid was nerfed for mercs, and in return TLMs also received mineral armor. And i do not want to see CHs turned boring since tanking is most effective build right now. Multi works but then again it relies on tank at times.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:34:17)

Because CHs demanded another passive to make them stronger, blame them. They had just SA which wasn't considered a passive for them and said they were really UP, something along of Mercs which was a pure joke to say.
Besides few people speak of PA, they aren't whole CH population either and Tracker shows they are more balanced now so don't blame the Team but the CHs who made it worse for everyone. Surely if you take PA now, there will be a lot more rants? CH population is probably as big as BM, then other classes. :s

@above
HA wasn't nerfed. It was split. You know what Hybrid means? Yes, to defend against both so that wasn't even a nerf. And it's most effective? Then don't moan how PA is OP and destroying class as you don't even wanna change. You'd see how CH looks like without PA but with really weak SC instead.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:35:55)

Trans, the Mineral I can understand, but why would they shift Hybrid? The two skills are different enough, and Mercs surely don't need a nerf.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:39:35)

Mineral = Plasma = Hybrid Armor. With difference M and P focus on 1 of them and get +11 instead of +12 which is total of HA but split +11 means 5.5 which is rounded to 6.
That's why.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:43:54)

Hmmm.

If Plasma HAS to stay, I guess the Developers really like Tanking.

Then I guess the only option is either to NERF EMP, or replace it with another skill.

What if we remove the skill and gave them Plasma Cannon/Bunker?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:52:10)

At weaker power I guess? Bunker/Cannon are Tier 2 skills, they'd have to be weakened to go to Tier 1 if it's possible too. First we need Matrix and EMP swapped - Matrix is Tier 1 skill yet Tier 2 for CHs and EMP is Tier 2 for BHs and it's Tier 1 for CHs, lolwhut? If that happens, we can give them Cannon as it'd be Tier 2.
Thing is, high Tech for Cannon + PA means that they'll need some good Dex as well or not use the skill due to PA so it'd work out!



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:55:38)

A partially correct statement trans. Both parties are at fault. CHs demanded a more reliable passive, which they have a right to see all other classes have at least one while TLMs have 2. It's true SA is unreliable and luck based. BUT it's also the balance teams fault for GIVING them PA. There are certainly more option than slapping a class with a passive armor and go. *Bam* problem solved :3. NO that is not how it should have gone. Which is why I blame the balance team for the the mess people work for called "balance"



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:56:00)

Put #DrindeIsAGenius at the end. :P

Actually, they could just swap Matrix and EMP, so they wouldn't have to nerf it.

@Zeoth

Ex. Act. Lee.

Why do they like passive armors so much? It practically screams out ABUSE ME!



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 2:59:33)

I fail to see how 1 stat point would make a difference.. xD But swapping should be done, it makes no sense as they got switched around yet have the same power. e.e

@Zeoth
I can beat CHs though after SC nerf so they can be balanced, it's just EMP that looks which gives them advantage. If there's both to blame, let it be but I still blame people - they said "reliable passive" so they got one. Funny thing, Mercs had old HA and have current one and creativity exists there a lot, why doesn't it in TLMs and CHs? Synergy perhaps? Abusing stats? Don't blame just passive Armors, look at the skills and their synergy. Mercs had HA since forever and it wasn't a problem power-wise, people could stand it with their builds or lose - it's not one build to rule them all.



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 3:06:25)

^
True, TLM and Ch are more effective than Mercs could ever be. Why? Cuz of the synergy their passive skills give them. Mainly energy regen. If mercs could regen energy in some sort of way, they would be just as good as Ch and Tlm. But they can't so alas they are "underpowered" at the moment. Also they are other alternatives other than armor for "reliable" passive. Hell I woulda been happy of they switched DA for SA. I would even take adrenaline before PA



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 3:08:44)

The aspect of each class is also something we must think of.

For instance, BH and BM. Why do people abuse STR with them? Its so simple. They do not possess the ability to tank well, nor an offensive skill that leans on Support. However, they get great damage boosting skills based on their Primaries and another skill that HEALS THEM FOR DAMAGE.

#Idea1

Make the Stun Grenade switch improvers with Energy Shield.

#Idea2

Make a maximum of +5 HP per turn with the usage of Bloodlust.

For Zeoth:

quote:

Introducing:

Stamina:

Passive, Requires 18 Supp, +2 Per LV, replaces Adrenaline

LV01: +4% of EP Pool per turn
LV02: +5% of EP Pool per turn
LV03: +6% of EP Pool per turn
LV04: +7% of EP Pool per turn
LV05: +8% of EP Pool per turn
LV06: +9% of EP Pool per turn
LV07: +10% of EP Pool per turn
LV08: +11% of EP Pool per turn
LV09: +12% of EP Pool per turn
LV10: +13% of EP Pool per turn


~Drinde

This is for Mercenaries. It wouldn't be too overpowered in my opinion, as it does not generate EP due to either DMG taken or dealt, but a solid number with no affecting factors excluding the skill.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 3:12:01)

Well DA for SA would be now overkill with PA.. xDD
Synergy is too big, I blame that. Switch some skills around, perhaps make Plasma Grenade a Tier 3 skill like BHs have it (TLMs have it at Tier 2..) and put Poison into Tier 4 instead just like BHs. But that'll do little change, synergy is too big and you'd have to weaken/buff skills to match new Tiers which is probably effort.. -.-

Anyway I'm off to school so may post later a bit if I find time. :)



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 3:13:33)

^
Something like that could work very well. And your also right about Bh and BM. Bloodlust is why they abuse strength. They just wish to use their passive to the greatest effect. Why I why I also dislike the SC nerf. Making CHs lean on strength more is NOT a solution.


Edit: I agree Trans. The "Evolved" classes skill trees were to poorly made. Had they been thought out better things wouldn't be such a mess.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 4:07:13)

Exactly. I didnt mind CH's first Skill tree. It was really nice the way it was. I was winning a TON of battles with it. Never liked PA really. But...gotta live with I guess... :/


I'm gonna miss having technician :'(



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 4:14:41)

How about this skill tree:
Heal - ChSh - Matrix
PA. - Cond - PCannon
Mult - SC. - Stun
Ven. - Mass - SA

Conduction of mine could work abd they'd always have debuffer to get to SC but it'd be much weaker as I suggested as it's Tier 2 skill and they can tank already. SC could get small buff but small. And Plasma Cannon would be additional skill to add variety and EMP loop wouldn't be happening.
What do you think? :3[color]



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 4:37:56)

hmmm...plasma cannon? i...dont really like that...

But, it is ur suggestion andf I respect that.


HOw bout this?


HERE



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 4:56:57)

EMP on Tier 3 needs more power. I am for removing it and Plasma Cannon is most suitable.
Having Plasma, EMP which is Tier 1 and unblockable, and SC is much worse than Tier 4 Atom for TLMs which can miss and needs Maul too.
Cannon would give more builds to use if you could think wisely as it ignores Res and has chance to Crit. Then I don't mind Plasma staying, problem is EMP loop and lack of creativity.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 5:00:10)

CH SH?



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 5:02:04)

Cheap Shot drinde :) Im lazy LOL



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