RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 5:04:50)

Oh, just put CS. I thought it was Cyber Shield for some reason. xP

I claim this page in the name of BALANCE!



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 5:19:43)

What would you guys consider a perfect, non OP skill tree for cyber?


Me would be

Heal-DM-CS
TEC-SC-EMP
CON-STU-MULTI
DA-MASS-VENOM


Basic concept for a multi/tank build?

5-1-1
4-8-2
5-x-5
4-x-x


Basically a heal loop, tank/multi rage build :D





Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 7:23:21)

@Trans

Well it would be a burden to hold PA if it's going to stay, but i will support EMP moved to tier 2/3 if their isn't any other options. Or as some suggested a new skill. Either way we need to try and add some more variety to CH so they will not tank all the time and also perhaps tweak PA so it won't consume a lot of points to be efficient.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 7:45:52)

That tiering will give more power if moved down. I want it to be gone, or would you prefer SC instead?

Plasma more effective with less points? You want a buff instead? You just contradicted yourself..



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 7:53:31)

^ Prefer gone, otherwise it will probably cause a whole lot of trouble again.

Also when i meant giving PA a tweak in making more efficient from lowered lvls, so AT LEAST lower down requirements from 43tech to 40/41. Since we got 1 point reduced from it from 12 to 11, then why can't requirement change, same goes for Hybrid and Mineral if possible, this allows more use than rather HAVING to put an extra 2 or 3 points just for requirements. And if PA/MA/HA received same treatment, how's that a buff?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 8:02:15)

I don't find them a problem but if you think it's good then fine. But problem lies with EMP loop, not Plasma. Swapping Matrix and EMP and then replace EMP for Plasma Cannon may allow small SC buff maybe. If we swap Venom and Stun, we would be able to use it more freely.
At least you get an unblockable attack which CHs lack.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 8:27:43)

YES, EMP is a problem, BUT only to those who abuse it, and they will be dealt if to what what you and the others have been previously discussing. The sad thing are those who HAVEN'T abused it to adapt to a change, but i suppose that will allow a small % increase for Static, whatever the Mods choice though.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 9:34:50)

Okaaay.... i don't know what's the main topic now since i'm too lazy to look at the previous posts and i haven't been posting here more often so.... what's going on?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 10:04:22)

LCyber Hunters. :P

Arevero, since SC is blockable and no EP drain, it would or should get small buff.
And it's abusers with EMP? EMP is always unlocked and you can loop with majority of builds. It's not problem with build, it's problem with skill and its skill tree. BHs cannot abuse it due to no passive Armor but CHs can, and on top get EP regen.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 10:47:05)

Hey everyone, Im back :D ( although most proberly dont know me or dont care :/)

Im not really back I just wanna know if the game has made any recent decent balance changes?


why?

Because if not I can resume being retired for now :/

I didnt really say bye to my friends I made on this game and I'm sorry and bye for now :)



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 10:53:34)

I don't mind PA staying on ch, however moving emp to tier 3 would be good as well as replacing malf with conduction. Also love the idea of the energy regaining skill for the merc. If that is implimented, I will definetly switch my tacmerc to mercenary. I think it would help the class become dominent again, and that makes me excited! :p



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 11:47:54)

I think that Cyber Hunters require a buff and nerf. For the nerf, EMP Grenade should be reduced or swapped out for a different skill due to what I call... "EMPmageddon". EMP can be easily utilized for each moment that Static Charge connects. Other classes lose the benefit of skills when battling Cyber Hunters, and that is not right if Mercenaries could only use Bunker Buster once whereas Cyber Hunters can destroy energy and heal themselves infinitely. Another nerf I would recommend is removing that MERCENARY passive skill known as Plasma Armour. I will not stop challenging this topic. Cyber Hunters should utilize only Tech Mage skills and Bounty Hunter skills because that is what Cyber Hunters are derived of. If I wanted to use an armour skill I would then go to Tactical Mercenary or Mercenary. Cyber Hunter, regardless of how "balanced" our class is is not much of a Cyber Hunter anymore. In fact I think of it as a slightly more powerful model of Tactical Mercenary. Tell me staff, is this what you have all planned for? Having Tactical Mercenary and Cyber Hunter not be original or artistically designed. The evolutionary effects of balance render these 2 classes stagnant. You will need to take drastic changes to fix this duality seen today.

For a buff, I am looking at Shadow Arts vanishing as rates are not real attributes of a class at all. % bonus to block? Blocking is not a specific trait, is a chance battle mechanic that turns melee damage to moot. It has no universal appeal in EpicDuel, because it cannot be controlled by the player using it, it is not strategy! This is a turn-time game and there are no reasons to strategize luck. When has luck been used in one's plan to PROCURE A RESULT? That is a recipe for disaster, and pity for any player who thought that Shadow Arts gave the player a dependable option in battle.

Poison resistance in a passive skill would be WONDERFUL for Cyber Hunters. Reroute is not used to compensate damage taken, no. And Bloodlust is not used to compensate damage given, no. Cyber Hunters are but the Mercenary class with energy. And guess what? Mercenaries without energy are just brickwalls that have no strategies. Cyber Hunters without Static Charge are Mercenaries. Where has the creativity gone I ask, where? But there is still hope. Rabble and Titan have the power to fix the originality of EpicDuel.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 12:57:26)

@Depressed Void: great post about EMP further up. it might not be the core of the problem, but if Plasma Armour is staying [I got no clue why]
then maybe EMP needs to be "changed" for CH. [don't tell me the skill can't be changed without effecting BH, use your brain, you do have one]

[oops. the final comment in brackets wasn't aimed at you depressed]



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 13:38:23)

Like it or not, they said plasma armor is staying. However yes I agree that emp needs to be moved. Also, believe it or not, there are still a few choices for cyberhunter builds. I personally have seen a support cyberhunter build, poison build, stremgth build, dex/multi build, tank build, 5 focus and a few others. Your imagination is the only thing limiting your choices. [8D]



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 14:16:12)

@ScarletReaper:
7+ skill points in Plasma Armour to make up for having no shield for resistance.
10 skill points in Static Charge, especially now it has been nerfed.

that is half your skill points right there on essential skills, sorry but creativity has gone down the toilet for CH.
anyone can put points into Poison, Multi, Massacre etc, doesn't mean the class is really creative.

I can have every skill at level 2, doesn't make the class or build any more creative.

Cyber Hunters went from fun, and not even considered a top 3 class, to a boring Tank class with way too many advantages
all wrapped up in Plasma Armour. I haven't seen any CH builds as creative as when the class first launched. figuring out ways
to loop your skills was awesome, but it didn't push CH to no1 until they added Plasma Armour. and then the staff nerf SC.

seriously, how can they not see that Plasma Armour and Mineral Armour ruined TLM and CH.

CH got Plasma Armour, majority changed to CH. TLM lost smoke, majority left the class.

do I need to present the math for how many extra stat points the passive armours allow those classes?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 14:31:03)

I still blame players for the Plasma.. *whistles*
If it wasn't for that, TLMs could've been good with current HA that Mercs own and that would keep the creativity because +6 Res and Def isn't as beneficial as +12 Def/Res so you could still make it creative. I have CH myself, I find it fun as an alt but tend to get bored as it's Malf -> Multi -> SC -> Heal, rinse and repeat.
Seeing as Plasma is staying, Mineral has to as well as they made 2 skills for that purpose exactly, TLMs and CHs. What we can do with CHs now is give a bit different skill tree WITH Plasma & keep it creative:

Heal - Cheap Shot - Matrix
Plasma - Conduction - Plasma Cannon
Multi - Static Charge - Plasma Grenade
Venom - Massacre - Shadow Arts

Conduction is to nerf Malf technically. I don't see why you should have high Res and add 25% deflection rate with Malf on top of it so Conduction is better under ONE condition - it's weaker than what I suggested; Lvl 1 = -1 Res, Lvl 2 = -2 Res... Lvl 10 = -10 Res. It's much less and its EP cost would be lesser than Malf's but not too much.
Cannon takes place of Malf, it's not issue with BMs, BHs or Merc that have no Energy regen but CHs that can loop Lvl 1 EMP due to Plasma and SC. It's also good change because Cannon is unblockable so you got another skill to play around with and be more creative maybe? I say good Dex + P Armor & good Tech + Plasma would make good build with Plasma.
Static Charge as it'd be Tier 3, it gets small buff to it. Somewhere in between previous SC (44%) and current (29%) so I'd say 35% max is fine as they lose EMP as well so they cannot loop and take it too far.
Venom should've been Tier 4 to start with, not put it in Tier 3 and keep power the same. Grenade can go there as it doesn't fit to be one of the best skills; Tier 4.

Opinions?



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 14:42:27)

I don't like the new debuff personally due to it stacking with Malfunction.

I loved CH, gonna be hard to convince me that Plasma Armour, a skill that frees up 40+ stat points, is worth keeping. stats are the most important
part of the game, these skills give a monstrous advantage, especially when the class has a debuff. we all saw it with TLM, then we saw it with CH.

Edited out flaming of staff ~Lycus



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 14:50:53)

Lawl I preached no PA before they released it into the game. My stance still has not changed. They stubbornly cling to this quick fix. It's fairly obvious they don't think many balance changes through. Not to flame the balance team but they really need to rethink their approach.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 14:53:06)

Well, but that doesn't mean you cannot say your opinion if it has to stay? >.<
I personally want it to leave as well, but if it cannot then I'll just suggest other options and feedback is what I need. And no Pivotal, the new debuff of mine does NOT stack with Malfunction - pretty sure I made a note in my post but will check and edit.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 14:53:13)

Yeah I also don't wanna sound like I am flaming the balance team, would be nice to see them grinding each day
so at least we know they are experiencing what we are experiencing.



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 14:57:25)

Well since its staying, I think the rest of the Ch skill tree needs to be reworked, badly. Emp is in te best spot possible for abuse. Either it moves or it needs to go. I personally like conduction and it would be an effective replacement for malf.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 15:20:48)

Okay, updated my suggestion post with above info I posted and few changes to avoid confusions.. xD http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=20244634
That post is getting long over all that time, there's a lot of suggestions there but pity none are actually considered; I mean what we players want, not what I want. >.<



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 15:28:17)

OK, so here are the amalgamations (combinations):

  • Bounty Hunter

  • Tech Mage

  • Mercenary


  • Cyber Hunter = BH + TM

  • Blood Mage = BH + M

  • Tactical Mercenary = TM + M


    Problems:

    -One of Cyber Hunter's passive skills (Plasma Armour) is Mercenary orientated

    -There are 2 uses of Bounty Hunter + Tech Mage hybrids (Cyber Hunter and Blood Mage)

    -Blood Mage is not a descriptive name for a Bounty Hunter + Mercenary Hybrid

    -Blood Mage is not only a mage but shares 50% mage skills including the Deadly Aim passive when they should be Mercenary skills

    -Tactical Mercenary uses some Bounty Hunter skills, but other than that... perfect!!!

    Suggestions:

    -Cyber Hunter swaps Plasma Armour and Shadow Arts [weak] for Deadly Aim and/or another passive that is sensitive to a Bounty Hunter + Tech Mage hybrid

    -Blood Mage becomes Blood Mercenary for example and replaces Tech Mage skills with Mercenary skills (including Fireball)

    -Tactical Mercenary is a decent role model!!!



    • PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 15:38:25)

    My post was edited for flaming the staff.

    well then I have a question..why don't the balance team actually communicate with us? [you edit flaming out anyway so why so scared?]
    I am sure most players who post here would like to see how the balance tracker works? [especially considering the team don't really play ED]

    if they DO play ED and I am wrong, why do most of the changes make no sense AND usually lead to even worse balance?

    can we have some full explanations for changes please, instead of Herp Derp and then appalling playing conditions for 6months at a time.



    Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/27/2012 15:47:28)

    Yea I saw that pivotal pretty ridiculous. This is the balance thread and it's pretty ridiculous when it seems the team is avoiding this entire thread. I also saw little flaming in that post sooo :l. I honestly wonder if they play ED AT ALL. It seems they base their changes on complaints than real game play.



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