RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 1:49:33)

Ashari, here at the forums we've been discussing CH so long. Any plans, especially with the Plasma Armor -> Technician/E. Shield idea? And the static charge buff/cooldown reduction? Or my (relatively unsupported) idea of Shadow Arts rework and switch with Deadly Aim?



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 1:56:23)

@zman 2

Ok sounds fairly good 2 me.


@Void

Okay, i see your point, but Ashari posted to have a skill preferably not from the same mechanics of regain ability.

@Ashari

Then perhaps a new passive mechanic, Adrenaline was a cool idea but it needs re-working, perhaps something else that increases damage like BHs Diamond blades before, except not too powerful, because i think DB was a really cool skill, although quite strong, and they didn't need to be taken out, they just needed a fix to lower the %/dmg.
Prior to what Joe said, i need a reason why PA cannot be removed and why isn't replacing it with TECH/ES better.[:D]



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 2:37:45)

How to buff Mercenaries:
-Include an extra passive stat bonus. Adds a certain amount of stats to all stats. +() to all stats throughout the battle would be a great idea.
-Bump up Double Strike by making it more likelier to hit.



ngshuyi94 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 3:37:20)

^ The first idea sounds good.

2nd one im not too sure. If u wanna do that im sure the hunters will also ask for something similar for cheap shot and mages, bludgeon.



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 3:51:49)

What would it replace? 3 passives is too much btw.



Shadow Rouger -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 4:24:56)

How about 'Deadly Swing'? (Replace that stupid rage thing)

Deadly Swing
Adds Percentage of primary and adds extra damage, basically deadly aim.
Of course this would have a very high support Requirement, but I think this would work.

Or maybe

A move for 2v2, can be 1v1 where they hit the ground and everyone takes damage, would make more people like healing, and if heal is fixed (Support enhances it, but not too much to +60 heal) this would balance alot of people and encourage a ton more support.



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 4:32:11)

If you look on the first page you will see I have just suggested a skill called Deadly Shock.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 5:01:11)

What about a hiring skill i suggested earlier in page 3.


So really, a Merc summons a NPC(non-playable character) to his side, and the NPC will give the Merc 35hp, 13ep back and reduce all debuffs by 50% at max. 5 turn cooldown.
This skill costs EP to use:

Lv
1-5ep= 8hp 4ep 5%
2-7ep= 11hp 5ep 10%
3-9ep= 14hp 6ep 15%
4-11ep= 17hp 7ep 20%
5-13ep= 20hp 8ep 25%
6-15ep= 23hp 9ep 30%
7-17ep= 26hp 10ep 35%
8-19ep= 29hp 11ep 40%
9-21ep= 32hp 12ep 45%
M-23ep= 35hp 13ep 50%

Tech requirement 24tech, +2 per lvl.
Wep require---none

Any consideration about this skill, afterall, it is Mercenaries we are talking about here.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 5:16:14)

How about buff to Adrenaline? It's quite useless in 1v1 and the Balance Team has said that if it doesn't do well, you will buff it. Perhaps making Adrenaline reduce enemy's rage by whatever it is at your level? So at Lvl 10, it gives you Rage 20% faster and you could make your enemy get it 20% slower too. In 2v2, it could be tougher but you could just split the effect of reducing between the two so 10% less each, unless there are 2 Mercs so they'd stack to maximum of 20% each on the enemy.

Or perhaps what could buff up Mercs is making Heal improving by Support again..? Not fully by Support, keep it how it is and improves by let's say 1HP/7-8 Support, and that's a buff for all Support builds as well as stat itself which needs a buff - I hope Team also remembers that they made a promise to buff it up after deflection was taken away?

And lastly, perhaps re-arranging skill tree would be good. It's okay now but hard to get to some skills which you might want and they are all the way at the bottom + you must waste 3-4 stat points into skills you don't want. For example Adrenaline, or Atom Smasher. TLMs have it much easier to get to Atom because skills on the way are all useful to them, no matter what build, and Mercs are like.. stuck.

My suggestion of re-arranged Merc skill tree:
[image]http://i45.tinypic.com/zairp.png[/image]

It's just a suggestion but now, you can get to skills you want much easier. Of course, SS needs Berzerker and Bunker before you can get it but you can do Bunker + SS build with high Energy. Atom is now easier to get and so is Adrenaline; not literally easier but it gives you better choice to create other builds instead of old skill tree. I've also taken FC + Multi idea from TLMs as it seems quite good. But main point is - you can make builds quite easier now as you aren't restricted by having useless skills you won't use. SS build need Bunker and Zerker as I said but you don't have to use them, although Bunker can be used as life-saving skill if you even have it at Lvl 1 with Tech build for SS.
There's simply much bettter synergy between the skills and allows you to get better builds without wasting points elsewhere.
Opinions? xD



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 5:34:03)

Sorry Arevero, but I dislike the skill as I wouldn't find it very useful.
Mercenaries are people who get hired not hire people.
If instead of adding ep if it buffed your support it would be better.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 5:48:27)

Okay, then we will go with what Trans said, since BT wants to buff Adrenaline, not add a new skill, also prior to that a new skill rearrangement would be good :D



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 5:59:44)

What about Deadly Shock skill? As I said earlier it's on the first page. ( The idea)



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 6:06:20)

I don't like the fact it replaces Adrenaline.. It's useful in 2v2 already, it needs a small buff anyway as it isn't effective in 1v1. And it's a new skill which players seem to like, replacing it would make some people change probably because they find Adrenaline more useful than Deadly Shock. :/
Replacing another skill in Merc's skill tree would probably be a no - I tried to suggest new skill but they all go nice together in Merc's tree buit could use re-arranging at most, along with TMs perhaps (re-arranging). It's a good idea, and perhaps it'd suit BMs more to reduce Str builds there and current unblockable Str combo with BL: Fireball -> Gun -> Attack/Bludgeon -> Attack -> Fireball -> Gun, seeing as DA improves Gun and causes some problems with BL because it's unblockable and strong. Whilst your skill would give Support build chance to shine as BMs - E Shield, Reflex, Aux, Intimidate and BL; you could get a Tank build with good Aux damage and perhaps some other skills that would go with it!

So perhaps suggest it for BMs and I'm in! [:D]



SylvanElf -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 7:17:55)

Well, I was interested to see what the class changers would go to since the BM skill change (zerk to bludgeon).
From my limited sampling since the update, I see a fair amount staying BM and swallowing the nerf, and some of the others going over to BH; high-hp, smoke, medium-massacre.

What have you guys observed on the matter?



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 7:21:59)

As i have said before, a nerf is like a migration, since CH nerf, TM stood up, since TM nerf, BM came out, since BM nerf, BH/CH returned, funny much?

Anyways, i have seen BMs go into Plasma cannon and fireball builds, not sure how it will work, but it's pretty effective.And also some BM wannabe mages trying to use the bludgeon skill to turn themselves into a TM at times, pretty creative. Overall outcome is better than expected, although some still have max Bludgeon and fireball and some DA into STR builds.
Also some Supercharge builds, if only BMs knew there was more than a STR build before this change. :D



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 7:39:09)

So what we can see is that Bludgeon was a wise choice as they are trying more builds. xD I seen 2 BMs only so far but blame me not playing a lot.. :P

Anyone has opinions about my above post? I tried to think of new Merc skill tree which would be more suitable for Mercs with current skills, just shifting around. :D



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 7:39:47)

Ashari,
What do you think about this:

Letting Adrenaline increase the classes damage output by the % of the Adrenaline every Rage for the next two or three rounds. Capping the damage output increase at 20%.
So, basicly. Every time an Mercenary uses any Rage-able attacks their damage will be increased by 20% (at max) for the next few rounds.

Also, I really like Trans' skill tree revamp.

Cheers,
Wootz



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 10:26:50)

Ashari would like to hear unique skill ideas for Mercenaries instead of the typical mechanics of skills? 'o'

OK... time to get creative...

I was doing some drawing and some data management and I came up with these ideas:

A form of "shielding"

Blood Shield has the right idea for energy conservation, but at the same time, without a reusable way of regenerating health... the skill can ultimately cause a Mercenary or Tactical Mercenary their loss. So, this active skill has no cost. This "shield" would be a status that passively absorbs damage to a certain extent. Somewhat like a forcefield. The power of the shield is determined by total health. Starting at 25 points of shielding at 47 health with this skill level at 1. 50 points of shielding at 47 health with this skill level at 10. For every extra 8 points of health, the value of the shield decreases by 1 point.

Description: Trigger a shield that absorbs a set amount of all forms of damage.

Level 1: 25 - ((total HP - 47) // 8) [// stands for integer division] points of shielding

Level 2: 28 - ((total HP - 47) // 8) points of shielding

Level 3: 31 - ((total HP - 47) // 8) points of shielding

Level 4: 34 - ((total HP - 47) // 8) points of shielding

Level 5: 37 - ((total HP - 47) // 8) points of shielding

Level 6: 40 - ((total HP - 47) // 8) points of shielding

Level 7: 43 - ((total HP - 47) // 8) points of shielding

Level 8: 46 - ((total HP - 47) // 8) points of shielding

Level 9: 48 - ((total HP - 47) // 8) points of shielding

Level 10: 50 - ((total HP - 47) // 8) points of shielding

Warmup: 0
Cooldown: 7
Duration: 5
Requirements: None
Level Required: X
Weapon Required: None



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 10:31:07)

What do you mean, shielding.

If he's at 47 HP, we have to deal 50 more to kill him?

Isn't that a bit much.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 10:37:48)

What I suggest changing at CH if EMP isn't removed is, changing places with Defence Matrix...



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 10:39:17)

@andy123
They shouldn't be in that order anyway, Matrix is Tier 1 skill and EMP is Tier 2, and they just swapped it around.. <.<



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 10:48:06)

@ Trans

Just like Reflex Boost being a Tier 3 on BH and a Tier 4 on BM :P



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 10:59:00)

@Drinde,

The problem is we do not have a great system to calculate damage taken. Only Strength users and Focus users and Support users would have enough power to actually hit 50 damage over 5 turns. Minimal damage is 3 and rage is calculated by the number of Defense/Resistance attacked. What I would like to see is if the minimal damage becomes 1, and hitting 1 point of damage would give a large bonus to rage.

And realistically, the shield would have a Defense/Resistance of what the attacker's Primary weapon damage is. If the attacker's Primary had 34 points of damage, that would be the Defense/Resistance of the shield at that moment. Therefor the damage dealt to the shield is the attacker's base Strength damage for example, like 12-16, so 12-16 damage dealt to the shield. And let's not forget, the shield has a 2 turn wait time between using it again and when the shield wore off!!!



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 11:04:55)

Exactly andy. :P
Then surely Tier 4 Reflex should have bigger power, just like Tier 3 Venom has different requirements to Tier 4 Venom owned by BHs but still the same power.

Tiering is so complicated that skills are shifted around, power is same and it's getting all weird.. -.-



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/29/2012 11:17:50)

@trans,

How about the idea of relinquishing skills? This formats our skill tree system by permanently giving a player complete access to a skill in which it's level requirement has been achieved.

I would still rank the hierarchy by power (the height of the skill determines the power), but for a good example:

Player-I is level 8 and is a Bounty Hunter. Upon retraining, Player-I may place skill points directly into Multi-Shot without having to place obtained skill points into Energy Shield and other level 1 skills.

Player-II is a level 30 Tactical Mercenary. Upon retraining, Player-II may add skill points to Poison Grenade without placing any other skill points into Blood Shield or Frenzy and other skills of the sort.



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