RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 19:02:01)

Yes, I think that double strike should be nerfed :)

HOLD ON BEFORE TROLLING!!!


One thing is that it does a LOT of damage to be a tier one skill.

One way to keep it is to add it to tier two. Simple :)

Move DS to Intimidate and Intimidate to DS on mercs, and for tact mercs move DS to Field Commander and Field Commander to DS.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 19:08:23)

@Trans

For the moment i was only suggesting as to hearing any advice, because Bludgeon is truly a VERY powerful skill, no doubt it can turn the tables of a battle in a click of a button. But on Mercs hand, DS in tier 1 is because that is their only offensive skill in their beginner lvs. Without DS in tier 1, MERCS would be beaten, regardless of HA, they will have low dmg output.
Anyways thanks for the reasoning, and yes, CH's unique skill was nerfed SO MUCH as i have mentioned in Balance Discussion 2 threads before this one.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CH needs a fix, this week, or next, preferably this week along with BMs if possible. And about ES changing to tech improvement, it'll also affect BHs, just so you know, not objecting anything. Static needs to go FULL %, if we are to lose PA. (44%, 55% if possible). And overall i am not sure if anyone wants DA or SA in tier 4.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 19:25:18)

Oh good point about E Shield change.. I will then turn back to Technican, I'm fine with either but Technican seems best choice. My bad!

Raynie, why change it so much? Then Intimidate gets a nerf as Tier 1 skills are weaker and that affects BMs too, skill ends up in same way as current SC, same applies to FC. e.e
Also if DS gets nerfed, so should Cheapshot which ignores defences and 25% to crit which is to compensate for no damage boost. Skills are fine, surely Bludgeon can do a lot but I can do the same with Lvl 1 Plasma Bolt and Rage + it won't miss. There's no need to change all classes just to nerf one skill.

Perfect balance will never be achieved, we can get close to it but there will always be an advantage in some cases. Skill was fine since it was released, why is it that it causes problems now? It had no boosts nor nerfs, players used it since forever due to requirement to Reroute, why is it bad?

Nerf Bludgeon -> Nerf DS -> Nerf CS -> Buff classes -> Nerf classes -> Back to the beginning - pointless as you're crippling all classes with one single change.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 19:56:44)

Just was a suggestion :P


hehe yes I understand your point


I just wish we could all be loving and...uh...Africa...uh...love...uh World Peace! :) lol (if you ever watched Jenna Marbles you'd get this lol)



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 20:24:13)

These are the things that need to be worked on first:

EMP/Atom smasher one use per match. 2vs2 and 2vs1 only one energy drain can be used on the same person. I was EMP three stinking times using up 2 energy boosts. This limit should have been done when they first introduced those high energy stealing skill. Do I have to have 200 points of energy just to use one stinking high energy skill, do I staff?

Plasma Rain, it is sad that the Blood Mage not only have to have extremely high Dex but to waste a turn boosting it while the merc class can have mid to high support and still get 45+ damage and killing a cyber hunter after I put max Reflex boost on like if it was not even there. Either the Blood Mage needs a new skill that actually works or do something with Reflex boost.

Reflex boost, as I previously mention is the third thing, it is a very inefficient skill for the Blood Mage class, it does not work over 80% of the time. It is not a bug it was not meant for the Blood Mage class.

These three things need to be worked on other then the proper weapon requirements to bring some balance into the game.




rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 21:08:27)

Before they do that, Hun, they need to NERF bloodmage first. Blood Mage's dish out WAY too much damage on a tier one and tier 3 skill.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 21:58:51)

rayniedays56, Those skills been like that far too long and it is about time they did something about it. I had max reflex boost on and three times double strike was used on me and three times the merc got as much damage as it was not there. When low high to high support Artillery strike goes gets 45 + damage with max Reflex boost on a player and their defense is at 39-47 +9 +1 something is seriously wrong with that skill for the Blood Mage or the Artillery strike max potential is 100.

The longest running skill issues needs to be addressed first. If Plasma Rain is improved then in 2vs2 where we see the improved damage as it should be then strength Blood Mages will get more and more losses and will think twice coming in that battle mode with that build. If I could get more damage at lower Dex then I could increase my tech and the Plasma Bolt tech mages will think twice about coming in 2vs2 with that build.

A Bounty Hunter with max EMP used a low level Stun grenade on a merc instead of EMP so he could not do Artillery strike but if it was me then he would have EMPed me then the merc would have use Atom Smasher and multiple energy drain skills be used on the same person or 3 to 4 EMPs in one match or any match should not happen, creating lack of fairness and lack of balanced.

After they deal with these and there is still a problem with strength Blood Mages or any strength based class or skill then they will deal with it. Why deal with a ny problem that has been a short term then a long term problem.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2012 23:41:55)

@Hung kingq

Before you go on about BM being given extremely weak(almost useless skills), can we worry about BH plights? They have been left untouched for very long now, almost an entire phase, they have no high-dmg-dealing skills on tier 1 to 2, whatsoever. And BMs have a fireball and plasma cannon. BMs can make REALLY good builds, if they try to improvise with what they have, as have Bounties for a while.

Bounties tried 5-focus, SUP, dex, tech, STR, and finally chose STR as best option. Why can't BMs do the same? BH almost have no synergizing abilities that works REALLY well together, yet they can survive, so can BMs. Try a BM DEX/TECH build, since you have Plasma cannon and rain, you can defend yourself whilst giving good dmg output. Hope that build helps [:D]



And can someone tell me WHAT IS THE BM NERF!!!

Our zerk change or new ability O.o



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 4:25:17)

Rofl , people trying to nerf mercs , the most underpowered class ingame o.o



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 5:08:10)

I'd prefer FireBall to Support-based, it kills STR AND encourages SUPP.

Wut.... BHs aren't that weak, just give us a small boost to Venom Strike and Stun Grenade, since they are so often overlooked.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 5:21:35)

Arevero, Did I say anything about the Blood Mage being weak, no, two skills need to be fixed and the unlimited use of high energy draining skills need to be changed which should have happen a long time ago.

You say bounties have no high damage dealing skill on tier 1 Cheap Shot: Strike enemy ignoring a % of all defenses; 25% chance for critical strike., it is suppose to be able to be blocked but with my high dex and Reflex boost it has not been blocked and it does deal high damage. I have seen a player use it on max on another player with 55 health, instant death. What is the % do they speak of because it is quite clear it is 100%? And if you get EMPed 3 to 4 times in one battle then that skill combo is useless because you hare left with a weak aux and a weak side arm because of low support and strength.

To get the high damage from Plasma Cannon and Plasma Rain a Blood Mage has to have 181 (45-54) dex and at least 135 (39-47)
that would be low health low energy low strength, but because of weapon requirements can't go low enough, same with support. If the Blood Mage had technician then yes they would be able to put on technician, or something similar that boost tech that is why Guardian would be a positive for the Blood Mage class, put on Reflex boost then Plasma Cannon the Plasma Rain, that would mean high energy especially if everything is on max since they made it clear skills are only effective on max with high stats.

The mec class is not underpowered at all I helped a merc out with a 2vs2 build and with moderate tech and low support he got 45 damage with Bunker Buster and 40 damage, he did not have aux, that damage was on level 34 players and he is only a level 30. he could use that build in 1vs1 as well, not just strength. I have high dex and more than 90% of the time a mer gets 45 or 47 critical damage sometimes with max Reflex Boost on. So if you think the merc is underpowered what skills lack power because I see none.



voidance -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 5:38:10)

I like to get on from time to time to see how the game is holding up and atm it seems like Strength needs to get reworked. I played 100 games this morning and 83 of Them were Strength Related builds. Bounty Hunters using the tired method of Smokescreen, Strike, Pistol/Strike, Massacre. Blood Mages using FireBolt, Berserker. TechMage oddly enough is even abusing it aswell with good old fashion High Hp/High Heal/High Str Etc. Etc. Anyways you get the point, where is the variety I used to see in this game? Yes we have different classes but what the hell is the point if everyone is basically using the same concept in builds known as High hp/High damage output via Strength. Me personally likes to be different, ofc I don't like to lose but I can't honestly brag about a build like that when it is so so overused from what I've seen.


If you disagree I would like to hear your input but keep in mind 83:100 is a rather large ratio considering there is 6 different classes and every class has multiple skills that are specifically built for certain attributes but yet the majority of players are abusing ^said Attribute.



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 5:56:50)

How about replacing intimidate with somethign similar to smoke screen / Malf except it reduces points based on what typeo f damage your primary deals ( MERCS ONLY
)



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 8:10:54)

@Hun kingq

I accept a buff to BMs as long as it's not STR related for now. We will see the BM nerf(sooner or later), and if it needs fixing, we can add a new skill, BMS-ONLY.

And yes, Dmg still penetrates high DEF/RES Whatsoever Hun king, BECAUSE staff do not want people doing 3dmg all the time, it'll be so boring you'll quit the match. I have done 10dmg to 41-50 RES, and still it's the way how it works. And you forget, CS is again CHANCE related, 25% crit is often not reliable.

And blocking will never be 100%, even if u put all your stats into dex, maximum block chance you'll get is probably 10%(lesser/more probably), blocking can never be determined, even if u have high dex and you reflex boost. And no you forgot again PC has a critical% too, and if you want you can get technician back now, but thing is it provided TOO LITTLE protection as it did to us CHs. If you want offensive, go Technician, defensive go ES, it's your choice, and Merc is UP compared to other classes, on itself it's great, get a TECH build with bunk and SS, i have seen others with this build, but again, to BMs/CHs, it's UP, give it a few heal loops or high dmg output and their dead.



Goony -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 10:53:58)

@Hun King, yeah there is nothing wrong with mercenaries, they are so good that 1v1 is flooded with them and those bunker busters do really good damage when they don't critical! Mercenaries are also really good in long battles, they have so many high damage attacks that cost no energy and that new skill adrenaline is so awesome...

It's beyond belief how good mercenaries are at the moment... It really surprises me that everyone doesn't change class to mercenaries since they are so good! I mean when you have to disregard defences to make most of the skills work and the way that intimidate and field commander really makes a huge difference is so amazing. The mercenaries are so overpowered that when you try to use a strength build it helps you by not returning health. Or when mercenaries get blocked so much due to all of those attacks being based on dexterity and all the cyber/bounty hunters with mid-high shadow arts that it builds rage so quickly. It's fantastic that rage auxillary gets deflected so often and that support is now so powerful that everyone is running around with 30-50 support But, what really makes mercenaries special is that it is almost impossible to use your skills because there is always someone that wants to remove your energy and thus render that super powerful and supremely effective bunker buster non existant. Yeah, go Mercenaries. So good!

If mercenaries are so powerful why don't you play that class, since blood mages are just so pitifully weak and all! I'll just keep saying that mercenaries are ok, because it is obvious aanything that gets written in this balance thread is akin to a grain of sand on a 90 mile beach... It's really getting obvious that the majority of the community has given up on balance and just plays whatever class give them quick, cheap wins... Strategy, meh! Balance, hahaa!



Arcanis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 10:59:54)

@Oldfart,if I didn't know you better,I'd think you were being sarcastic.




comicalbike -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 11:03:39)

goony i always change class because of the balance issue when its fixed i wont change so much and the best class i used to like was a merc it used to be really fun all the time its really that good that i don't play it, i may try the t merc that's not so bad as a merc
why dont you try being a tech mage there is a very good one called sky something cant quite remember the name
yes i remember the name now called sky hooks why don't you try there build its very good



Goony -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 11:17:52)

@Arcanis, my bad. I just feel so sorry for Hun King and all those bloodmages at the moment... Fancy getting criticaled all the time by a skill that has a 25% chance to critical and never getting a block when you have reflex boost. It just makes me so sad that someone can be that unlucky... He must lose every game when he is obviously trying so hard to win every one!

@comical, do I detect humor :) That Skyhooks character is such a n00b, dexterity spamming tech mage with no strength! Goony would never lower himself to that level...

Goony shall remain a mercenary, it can't get much worse than what it has been for the last 8 months or so, can it?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 11:27:20)

Right, I will address Hun first:
You want Plasma Rain to be buffed? Why so? It doesn't compare to Artilery? Support gives you minor bonuses and Aux damage whilst Dex gives you Defence and improvement to some skills as well as higher chance to hit & block. Give the skill a buff and you're buffing TMs who don't need one no more - one thing they would need is better layout of skill tree, nothing more.
quote:

To get the high damage from Plasma Cannon and Plasma Rain a Blood Mage has to have 181 (45-54) dex and at least 135 (39-47)

Lolwhut? I am TM, tried Dex build last week with Multi and Overload with about 100 Dex and I could deal 35-50 (!!) damage per cast of Multi (depends on resistance and crits make it higher), and it took off only 1/3 of my EP & I also had 140 HP. Overload before Multi, if stuns, was a great advantage as I get 2 damaging skills, chance to stun and high Defence. What in your opinion is high damage from Cannon and Rain, 60+? Stop seeking a buff to BMs, what you need is a nerf to Str builds and then your class is fine as you will try more creative builds.

Whoever mentioned Mercs are too strong and need a nerf, that's funniest thing I heard in a while. Mercs can compete with good and creative build, I seen Tanks with even ~100 Energy and same amount of HP which used Atom Smasher, new Adrenaline skill, HA and medium Heal very well to tank through the battle and win in the end. They need a small buff than a nerf. It's like saying CHs got destroyed enough already and need a buff - unless Plasma Armor leaves, that class needs a nerf instead. >_>



comicalbike -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 11:35:58)

as the builds get more balanced will the bosses be made a bit weaker for the lower levels to have a chance and admin 11 should be nerfed
goony as you are a merc if you win one game a week you will be very happy



Goony -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 11:40:27)

quote:

Mercs can compete with good and creative build, I seen Tanks with even ~100 Energy and same amount of HP which used Atom Smasher, new Adrenaline skill, HA and medium Heal very well to tank through the battle and win in the end.


Win against what! they would be dead in 4 turns from a bloodmage or techmage. If they invest so much in energy and tank, what are they doing damage with. Oh yeah, weapons give damage so they would do 3, 3, 3, rage 30... meh I'd tear a mercenary like that apart in no time even if he was lucky enough to strike with atom smasher, not get blocked or deflected and manage to last 4 turns to heal again...

I really don't think healing should be considered a relevant strategy when discussing balance (all classes can heal), but that's all most mercenaries can do just to survive. Any half decent player can beat a mercenary with any class. I know I do when I play on my alts, they are easily the worst class to play 1v1 with...



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 11:41:25)

@comical : Completely unrelated , did you realise someone styled himself after you and named him self comical killer ? (LVL 34 Blood mage chump who i beat with intimidate and double strike only)
@Goony: I agree with everything you said , you just became my idol , and i salute you for being loyal to your starting class much like myself
@the guy who said mercs are overpowered :No , just no , Goony is correct



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 11:43:54)

I said compete, not necessarily win. Of course abusers will win or OP classes - BMs, CHs, TMs with Beta weapons but they can still win. There's a lack of Mercenaries really so I cannot say much about them but from my TM's point of view or Lvl 29 Merc of mine. -.-
I didn't mean it all in a bad way, it's the OP classes that make others UP (Mercs). We see result of moaning how CHs were UP'ed and they got their buff, but it was an overkill.

@below
HA and Blood Lust? Add Str onto it for Fireball and put leftover points into Assimilate + maybe Lvl 1 Bludgeon if they wish and we have something along current lines of BMs, but not 2-3 turn killers, they'd be able to tank AND kill at similar pace if not the same. -.-



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 11:44:31)

Blood Mages: what about replacing Berzerker, Deadly Aim and Reflex Boost with Hybrid Armour, Assimilate and Bludgeon?

skill tree would look something like THIS



comicalbike -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/19/2012 11:46:47)

but goony they killed your class when they made 3 new classes and now are killing them of as well so when all the classes are on there knees every one will be happy



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