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Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (6/3/2012 0:40:31)
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Ah, yes, 1 Static Charge will be worth approximately 1 level 1-3 Field Medic. If we decrease the cooldown, the power decreases. If we increase the cooldown, the power increases. It is a relative balance method.
Your point here is? Of course "increasing cooldown = more powerful", that the simple rule of balance. I just say-4 turns is an awfully long time, it's about 1 static per battle. Battles nowadays usually don't go past 6-8 turns, either a Rage killshot comes along, or a Finishing move, etc..., I rarely even static 3 times during a battle. Almost never, most I get is usually 2 times, and sometimes even 1 because you get killed too fast. With a 4 turn static cooldown, it's essentially only 1 static per battle. Two 15 EP statics > One 21 EP static. (0.6*34 = 20.4 -> 21 energy gained back), I'm calculating both at fully maxxed, and the average level 34 CH to have around 15+34 primary damage. Sure, your static might be blocked, but that's just a nuance, in most of your battles, having two smaller statics of about 14-15 EP each is better than having only 1 static that regains 21 EP all at once.
"Your point here is?". My point here is, yes, cooldowns are relative, but there are limits. As such, there are no skills who's cooldown exceeds 4 turns. I believe that Static Charge is more optimized with a greater cooldown. Static Charge is a parent skill that branches to Malfunction and then to the level 10 skills. As it is a source of energy, it becomes that much more coveted to use to repeat skills like Massacre twice in battle even with an energy capacity for only 1 Massacre. Static Charge is used to conserve energy allocation as well as to fall back on versus EMP type skills.
"I just say-4 turns is an awfully long time, it's about 1 static per battle". Yes, it may be a long time relative to the opinion of a speed build, but to a shield build 4 turns may be very short if you know what I mean. It depends on the player, all playstyles.
"Battles nowadays usually don't go past 6-8 turns, either a Rage killshot comes along, or a Finishing move, etc". Battles for who, though? A shield build can be unfortunate enough as to be critical stricken against, raged against, energy drained against... but realistically with respect to EpicDuel battles, not everyone goes by 6-8 turn battles. I will not go ahead and say I am one of them, no. I have before though, and longer battles were my most enjoyable battles. Right now I have a juggernaut specific build that is designed for shorter battles. This is off-topic, but the current build is meant for the level cap rising.
"With a 4 turn static cooldown, it's essentially only 1 static per battle". Essentially being an abstract term, yes? By now you know how I would respond to a specific instance or generalization: does this respect the Cyber Hunter community as a whole? As some Cyber Hunters design themselves to last beyond 4 to 8 turns.
"Two 15 EP statics > One 21 EP static. (0.6*34 = 20.4 -> 21 energy gained back)". Energy values is not my most significant concern. The fact that Static Charge requires striking, depends on connecting, and a lower cooldown at lower power make it more of a nuance than just the factor of blocking itself. With those conditions in play, and improving by Strength as it does today... how does a Technology build manipulate Static Charge? No Strength (low power), no Dexterity (low success rate), Static Charge is essentially nullified for qualifying as a skill. The same applies to Support. A very significant issue that I have just mentioned, was cooldowns. The current Static Charge can be blocked. Consider that, then add a lower cooldown. Relying on Static Charge a more frequent rate increases the number of instances of Static Charge failing. Not even that, Static Charge is striking. This skill with a 1 turn cooldown for example could potentially be used every 2 turns. Dexterity Static Charge practically ensures success but low power. Strength Static Charge ensures power but low success. Having both could only mean that Strength and Dexterity builds could ever exist. One could get by with average Strength and Dexterity and have a moderately powered Static Charge that normally connects, but there will never be a Technology or Support build truly since points are always added into Static Charge for the said reason of safekeeping one's energy reserves. We nearly all use it, and if not the build is vulnerable to EMP attacks and one-time skill usages. That right there is a 8- turn build. My humble Static Charge suggestion is to allow a reliable energy replenish, use any build, and not worry about melee but instead worry about the rest of the build but more specifically other skills than the universally known Static Charge.
"Having two smaller statics of about 14-15 EP each is better than having only 1 static that regains 21 EP all at once". Is it really better? As said above, using more frequently used Static Charges is a means of 2 stats more so than 4 the lower Static Charge's cooldown is. I prefer Static Charge to have power over cooldowns so that Cyber Hunter players may use other skills and strategies instead of narrowing one's views upon Static Charge. The skill should be an asset to the arsenal, not a multipurpose tool like Support was with deflections involved.
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The problem with having a lower cooldown and depending on the skill, is that you essentially Strike every second turn. Who can do that? That is still a method for the Strength and Dexterity stats, not for the Technology or Support stats. This is why I suggested this change.
Sure, one turn is a little low, I agree with that. But then again, we all agree the Static Charge "nerf" was a little overkill. Solutions? Lower cooldown or increase static charge regain. Since SC cooldown = 2 right now, if we were to lower, we'd lower it to 1 cooldown. Maybe we can lower to 1 turn cooldown, but lower maximum regain to like 25%? Or, keep cooldown at 2, but buff it a little bit, maybe increase maximum regain to about mid-high 30%? Either way, Cyber Hunter is KNOWN for it's Static Charge (and Plasma Armor I guess now...), and I am just thoroughly against increasing the cooldown rate.
"We all agree the Static Charge "nerf" was a little overkill". Generalization. Maybe not all of us (but those who do not are probably crazy), but I for one believe it to be overkill. Plasma Armour is invented, and it's aftershocks cause harm to a generally accepted skill... Static Charge. This is wrong in my opinion. Problems arose following Plasma Armour, and the staff that handle balance decide to take aim at a bystander, Static Charge, which was in no new way a contributor to the imbalance of the skill tree that had the second Static Charge (the original was weaker) and new Plasma Armour together. This is why I believe that the action taken against Static Charge could be considered "overkill".
"I am just thoroughly against increasing the cooldown rate". Why, though? Cooldown simply means unavailability. If you wish to excel in the way of the Cyber Hunter for example, you have to cope with the fact that no skill will be fully utilizable. If you depend on Static Charge too much what happens when it becomes nerfed for example, will you let that nerf you? More cooldown, generally speaking, gives one more time to perform with other skills... like also considering EMP Grenade or Cheap Shot for example (or Striking, and Auxiliary too).
Anyways, this is where I see a breaking point. I will come out with it right away with no regrets. If what I said had any intent or sign of being disrespectful to you Joe, then I am sorry. I came at you with protestation as I "think" that you were not a Cyber Hunter during the entire lifespan, is that correct or not? I made an assumption about your experience and I am sorry to offend you in that way. I was wrong. I am not self-righteous, nonetheless a megalomaniac, but I have been a Cyber Hunter one month, and some few days after the evolved classes release when the skill tree was original; that is why I "think" I am qualified to advocate for all Cyber Hunters. Even I am still learning every detail about the class, but I have the experience and background throughout every change and the knowledge that goes with those changes. When I began as a Cyber Hunter, for example, I was advocating for Energy Shield to replace Technician since Resistance was a grand issue and Technician did not fulfil that goal.
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Joe, your suggestion was made in 30 seconds, while you were posting.
Your point is? Sure, even if you feel that my previous post was made in 30 seconds, I hardly think you can say this post was made in 30 seconds.
"Your point is? Sure, even if you feel that my previous post was made in 30 seconds, I hardly think you can say this post was made in 30 seconds". My point here was that proper planning, taking the time and consideration as to how the suggestion affects Cyber Hunters and everyone else as a whole and overtime is very important. It may be unlikely, but what if staff uses a suggestion that severely cripples Tactical Mercenaries even though it was initially a good idea? That is why I use a certain method before suggesting ideas for a PVP game where balance is utmost important, not too far behind valuing the players.
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Sure If you have supporting details as to how your suggestion results, or how it improves balance, post them. You can make suggestions but without detailed reasoning I have no stigma to follow you.
I do have ideas. I have posted them before. I have made suggestions, and detailed reasoning. And who said we have "any stigma to follow you?" I don't see your idea being tested out and reported back.
Quick Question-Have you even been a CH before? You're currently a BM, so I'm not sure. If so, you *might* have run into those times where you REALLY need a static charge at this moment to prepare for a heal next turn, but they're both in cooldown. With extended cooldown on SC, more and more of these scenarios will start to appear. Sure, you *might* have been a CH longer than I have, and you might have fought more matches, but every CH has his/her opinion bro. I respect your idea, but I don't like it, because in my experiences, a 4-turn cooldown on Static is too long. It's basically pre-static charge nerf Static Charge except a little weaker, made unblockable, and cooldown increased by two turns. Seems like too much to me. Only thing I like about it is "Unblockable Energy Return", but even still, I don't see my Static getting blocked all that often, although when it does, it's rather annoying.
"I do have ideas. I have posted them before. I have made suggestions, and detailed reasoning. And who said we have "any stigma to follow you?" I don't see your idea being tested out and reported back". I am sure you have posted detailed suggestions, but post #701 was not, I saw that as a petty remark at the same time as advertising yourself to step over me. What could have ended well is if you helped me help you by posting some flaws and nice things regarding my suggestion so that I could improve it to your personal liking at the same time as being respectful to the general public (especially Cyber Hunters) if you know what I am saying?
"Quick Question-Have you even been a CH before? You're currently a BM, so I'm not sure". Yes, I have been a Cyber Hunter in each stage of their development, but not absolutely I will admit. When Cyber Hunters are becoming too popular/powerful I often follow my Hipster ways of switching to the most underpowered/underused class. For example, when Plasma Armour was introduced, I had switched to Blood Mage. When Tactical Mercenaries were nerfed I switched to them. I just like to prove that no matter what circumstances I am given, I can find a means of achieving victory even when the odds are against me. I like challenge, but not competition.
"With extended cooldown on SC, more and more of these scenarios will start to appear". True, when one require the abilities of the skill but it is not available then there may be panic involved. I avoid this panic by specifically stating that "Energy restoration is unblockable". If it is more preferable, I can say that Strike is no longer a Static Charge component but the energy conversion becomes higher, is that acceptable?
"Sure, you *might* have been a CH longer than I have, and you might have fought more matches, but every CH has his/her opinion bro". I respect that, it is just so hard to text how you actually talk and feel. I mean no harm.
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Does not take too kindly to unasked attacks or provocations.
It is difficult to tell from text alone the attitude or intentions of another. For some people it is no problem. Unfortunately I do not do this well and often overreact to petty little things like I have to defend myself. My apologies yet again.
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Just spoke my mind, I thought it was a bad idea because the cooldown is insanely long, and you had to make it personal, didn't you?
Nope, still not personal. For everyone's information, it becomes personal with me when I start talking to you by PM. I can handle a share of aggression from others, but if it gets too serious I "may" have to report someone if I understand their psychological profile.
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Sure, I'll wait for your response, but it should be a Balance post, not about provoking or attacking me again. If it is, can it. I don't want to argue with you anymore, I'm done. It wastes time, energy, and gives mods/AKs a great excuse to hand down warnings to us. Thanks.
Done.
Removed off-topic content. --SMGS
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