RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (Full Version)

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kingpowerlord -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/23/2012 8:11:51)

i totally agree with button, if it does increase with support then it will be strength and support blood mages we will have to deal with they will still spam strength, but then support as well!



Scyze -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/23/2012 8:26:02)

The new version of Field Commander for the Mercenaries is no use. I just die if I use it against Blood Mages. I mean, invent a new passive skill that makes you gain health as you burn off energy or deal damage...

  • 3%
  • 5%
  • 7%
  • 9%
  • 10%
  • 12%
  • 15%
  • 17%
  • 19%
  • 20%

    Think you should increase the chance of "Stun" for Maul. So low. 40% at Max. Make it like 42-45.
    This might be stupid but if you make the chance of doing more damage for Fireball and Bludgeon by lower Health, it would be better. Blood Mages, Cyber Hunters and Bounty Hunters have an OP build with so high build. (CH aren't that high) I mean, some BH have 139 while B have 140.



    • RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/23/2012 8:35:19)

    Or how about ... make FB improve by both STR and SUPP?
    FORMULA : Total STR + Total SUPP / 2 , then do its progression = Fireball Damage
    Note : I've mentioned this idea waaay back before .
    ... and put Zerk back . That way , non-STR builds will also be more flexible too . Zerk isn't the one that made STR BM OPed anyways .



    King FrostLich -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/23/2012 8:49:01)

    quote:

    I've mentioned it before. Fireball with support is a bad Idea!!!

    BM with the new weapon will just spam support, with over 100 support, and using the new weapon, they will crit and do so much damage each time.


    You do know most weapons have high strength requirements and alot of strength stat modifiers than support.



    Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/23/2012 9:18:55)

    quote:

    ... and put Zerk back . That way , non-STR builds will also be more flexible too . Zerk isn't the one that made STR BM OPed anyways

    Tell me how higher damage, not locked to Physical made it less OP. It's better the way it is now and even if it didn't, BMs may need minor adjustments to make it balanced such as requirement on Fireball being Support (and Strength for Bolt) which will lower power of Str builds and make 'em more beatable.
    Also Support + Strength for Fireball? Support is stat that is all-round "jack of all trades, master of nothing" not a major stat such as Strength which is used for attack power, or Dex for blocking and Defence. It's supposed to give you small boost in all areas (not literally). It's like LUK skill in AQ if anyone plays it. Isn't supposed to have a build of its own like Str which requires sheer abuse since it's impossible with Support.

    BC is fine if you use it properly. Mercenary is a strategical class, not some mere no-brainer like Str BMs are so it's fine now. There are ways to get a lot out of BC's HP regen which is let's say high EP build so you can go for Bunker, high Heal, near-maxed BC and HA or Support build with good defences since BC will give you boost to Gun and Primary, Multi will have good damage + Crits thanks to Support will give you HP back, and you can Tank even after EP is gone since you have good Aux and hopefully average damage from Gun/Primary (about 10-12?).



    Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/23/2012 14:58:32)

    quote:

    Bad idea because DA would be OPed in lower levels and getting weaker at higher levels and it also would affect Tech Mages.
    To nerf BMs its a good idea to put Fireball on support or give it a high support requirement.

    Wouldn't be OP at all, since you can't use it to level 10 and it rounds up anyways it will actually be less damage unless you invest a lot more points into it.
    Maybe make it so strength lowers your chance of going first.
    @trans
    Around half the people in AQ think luck is better than dex. Lucky beastmage, lucky hybrid, annihilator warrior, etc all use luck as a major stat so the support should be the same then.
    Also support isn't comparable to luck.
    Luck: chance of increasing damage, going first, chance to block, chance to hit.
    Support does less of this and what it does do is SIGNIFICANTLY worse since you don't even need it to go first or crit due to minimum % chances as opposed to luck where you actually need it.



    truc -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/24/2012 22:00:30)

    TLM should get back technician replace the garbage skill bloodshield which less then 3% of the tlm community even uses.
    As well as stun grenade being replaced back to maul.
    Those are the only changes needed and fireball being increased with support.



    shadow mage1111 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 0:15:33)

    I know im not the only one whos agrees here but BM's do need a nerf...i haven't figured out how they should be maybe putting a serious requirement on fireball and maybe raise the cost of bludgeon or something ....idk but they do need a nerf



    Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 0:21:48)

    I will be here in sleep's time (6-9 hours), in that time I will be on to join the war, draw bugs, post balance, and some real-life stuff (secret is encrypted). Making an official return from my month break.



    Archlord Raistlin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 1:03:05)

    Noticed 2 things from the war...

    1. Just about every blood mage has the same build...140 hp, max fireball, mid-to-upper bludgeon, new gun.
    I must have fought 100 of the SAME STYLE BUILD during the war. Does that tell anyone anything???
    For those who don't get it, a nerf seems to be in order when a whole class is using the same build. Saw
    little to no variety in blood mages...not the intent of this game, or is it?

    2. That bio armor spike thing deals WAY TOO MUCH reverse dmg when u hit them. I don't mind getting hit
    back for SOME, but it's like 40% or 50% of the damage I dealt. So if you dont have high damage ranged
    attacks, you have to sit there like a noob and just take their punishment. That skill should not force you
    to kill urself trying to win...or take half your hit points in the process. Drastically lower the % of reverse
    damage (like 20%), or make it last a shorter amount of time.




    Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 1:52:16)

    @shadow
    A list of my ideas:
    Make DA straight out damage instead of % based
    Switch around bludgeon with reflex boost (1 less skill point right?)
    Make gun 3 cool down and aux 2 (ignore the and part if you don't agree with it)
    Replace DA with a similar passive for an aux (with no requirement)
    I think about 2 of these ideas combined would nerf them enough

    Won't really nerf str BM but makes them less in number:
    No dexterity requirement on plasma cannon
    No technology requirement for overload
    Make reflex boost more similar to Blood Commander where it gives more energy regain for skill points invested (going above 15% at a certain level)
    These encourage more builds other than strength

    For the DA aux idea here is some simple math
    40x.28=11.2
    11.2 rounded up is 12
    that's 12 extra damage every 3 turns
    that's 24 every 6 turns as opposed to DA 30 every 6 turns (both at max)
    Not exactly OP let alone game breaking



    truc -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 2:35:30)

    Techmages have malfunction so their stuns will do higher since its energy based.
    Bounties have smokescreen so their stuns will do more since its phys based.
    Mercenaries improve there stun damage with strength/ hence they have bezerker.

    Cyber hunters have malfunction so there energy grenade will do more.
    Bloodmages have an energy based stun increased with dexterity (they don't need it anyways)
    Tactical Merces have stun grenade no boosts to increase the damage, like smokescreen or malfunction so give us maul back, and switch technician with bloodshield. Trust me it will balance things out.



    Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 5:35:16)

    @Mr. Black OP
    Yes take my words literally, as expected of people here since it's too hard to understand.. I'm talking old LUK, pre-LS one when barely anyone used it. Or should I say Support = DF's LUK?



    RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 6:18:38)

    quote:

    Tell me how higher damage, not locked to Physical made it less OP. It's better the way it is now and even if it didn't, BMs may need minor adjustments to make it balanced such as requirement on Fireball being Support (and Strength for Bolt) which will lower power of Str builds and make 'em more beatable.
    Also Support + Strength for Fireball? Support is stat that is all-round "jack of all trades, master of nothing" not a major stat such as Strength which is used for attack power, or Dex for blocking and Defence. It's supposed to give you small boost in all areas (not literally). It's like LUK skill in AQ if anyone plays it. Isn't supposed to have a build of its own like Str which requires sheer abuse since it's impossible with Support.

    Simple: More flexibility to other builds. I mean , come on , they do have DA already , right? . No need to force other classes to stick to one armor type (which is Physical BTW ) , and besides , some will still stick to STR-spam even if FB also need SUPP due to the SUPP stat currently UPed .



    ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 8:07:33)

    @ArchlordRaistlin The bioborg special is only overpowered against strength abusers, and it is a good thing. We had to get SOMETHING to slow down strength builds. Don't like it? Try a new build.



    kingpowerlord -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 8:33:11)

    How about for blood mages replace blood lust with shadow arts, this would certainly be the nerf blood mages need because it wouldn't weaken them too much but it would make them beatable.



    King FrostLich -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 8:37:09)

    Blood Lust is the essence skill of Blood Mage. Why would you remove that?



    kingpowerlord -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 8:39:35)

    Essence, well change shadow arts name to blood arts and hey presto you got essence.



    Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 8:46:03)

    You'd be killing Bloodmages, Not STR Bloodmages alone...

    As a 5 Focus BM I rely on BL



    kingpowerlord -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 8:59:41)

    Oh yeah calogero, I was just thinking about strength blood mages. We have to find a differenT way, either by making fireball improve with support/tech? How's that.



    Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 9:03:01)

    Hmmm, High Str and Support, Low defences and decent health...

    not to mention the chances it can crit...

    slap a requirement on it and it's good I guess or lower the progress Or just put it on a higher tier



    sky222 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 9:57:49)

    I think the multi damage formula in 2v2 should be changed from
    (Multi Damage * 0.85) - defense/resistance
    to
    (Multi Damage - defense/resistance)0,85

    Because right now, the multis are pretty much trash



    shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 10:23:31)

    -_- I'm tired of blood mages blocking me while I don't block them. Then I thought: What if we made fireball blockable?



    bp1119 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 12:08:21)

    This is one of the balance issues i have a problem with. i am the lvl 23 bounty hunter. In this kind of fight my team had absolutely no chance to win. the unbalanced game



    Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (7/25/2012 16:29:27)

    @trans
    Yes, refer to an old stat that was like that years ago before mentioning you mean the actual old one which literally nobody talks about as opposed to the new one. So smart.
    But why shouldn't it have its own build?
    Even in DF luck has some use as opposed to support which is nearly useless and is just kept at the minimum needed for skills and weapons.



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