RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (Full Version)

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SylvanElf -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 3:42:43)

A long-standing issue has been STR builds for most classes generally being easier and more successful than other kinds. Not sure how to resolve this though without penalizing those who don't just pump into STR and presto ez-win.



Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 4:13:06)

My solution for strength


Strike diminishes each time it is used in a row (-15%)

Str BMs are still OP'ed...idk what to do other than nerfing fireball

Make agility level scaled





ansh0 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 4:31:27)

Fireball->Support



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 5:44:30)

Str BM aren't that OP...
They are weak against Energy stealing and Blocks...

Imo if Dex Blocking were more ' Reliable ' then STR Bm would be balanced it's just that they can hit even with the little Dex that they have



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 11:47:52)

My solution for strength:
Make guns improve with both strength and dexterity, like ranged weapons in AQ.



Darkwing -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 13:33:18)

^ dex is strong enough ( block+ def). make a new stat for gun damage



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 14:40:02)

And give 5 stats per Level to compensate for it? Why go through roundabout method? Str and Dex can work, just put bigger emphasis (Str) on damage and less from Dex - so like 80% of Str to damage and 20% of Dex to damage, so you get lower damage if you have lower Dex but not too much nor giving Dex some major advantage.
Another solution is penalizing "Strike" in some way if you keep using it, like small decay depending on how many times you use it.

But just a quick question, why nerf stat which is a problem just for certain classes? Shouldn't we actually deal with classes rather than stats (and weapons too, depending on abusing)? [&:]



Thylek Shran -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 15:01:08)

Strenght builds have high str and dex but low tech and support
so they wont use their gun much if they are not mages with
deadly aim.

Making gun damage based on str+dex would not affect most
strenght builds but it would make tank builds with high dex
more strong.

Guns on support would lead to alot more tech+support builds
and especially favour mages.

To nerf str builds you have to nerf strenght itself to get it
in balance with defense and resistance. Skills that are based
on strenght would be nerfed too then.

Fireball and Plasma Bolt are very powerfull and maybe should
get nerfed.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 15:04:59)

Slowing down Str progression is simplest nerf then, since you get Gun (unblockable) and Primary which has no cooldown but blockable. This has been suggested many times in fact, there was supposed to be another decay range for stats to prevent abusing but seems like they've forgotten that (it was few months back already)..

Bolt could get higher cost, +4 more to match one of Fireball. Slowing down their progression too would definitely do the job too, instead of +1 damage per +4 Tech, change it to +5 Tech which makes 5 damage difference per 100 stats. It's always something since you can survive more, and higher cost on PB would slow down spamming by a bit maybe.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 16:34:04)

[sm=frogzard.gif]

A suggestion:

How to Balance Weapons (in Terms of Cooldown and Damage):

So, yesterday, when I was writing about penalties this idea crashed into my mind and slipped away before I could write it. Unarmed. Here is the standard description... a player has 62 Strength, therefore 15-18 base Strength damage. An unarmed Strike deals damage equal to the base Strength damage of the player, period. How would this work? Unarmed Strike has a cooldown of 0, weapon Strike has a cooldown of 1, Sidearm has a cooldown of 2, and Auxiliary has a cooldown of 3. This is the same layout as the current weapons cooldown, except weapon Strike now has cooldown (1), reducing Strength's damage over time; balancing weapon Strike closer to Sidearm and Auxiliary.

COOLDOWN IS/ARE THE TURN(S) DURING WHEN A WEAPON OR SKILL IS NOT AVAILABLE. AUXILIARIES AT 3 TURNS COOLDOWN CAN ONLY BE EVERY 4 TURNS... +1 TURN TO USE THE WEAPON/SKILL.

This is just phase 1 though, what I would like to see as well is to remove 1) Auxiliary's 5 damage bonus and 2) improve Sidearms with Support or create a new type of weapon at 30+ or 35+ levels for Support.

Anyways, here is what the DoT graph for weapons would look like after the implementation for unarmed:

http://i50.tinypic.com/9sszye.png

Please notice, ranged weapons appear to be at moderation while melee appears to be at extremes in terms of damage (weapon Strike at top, unarmed Strike at bottom, Sidearm and Auxiliary at centre).

I most certainly suggest that at the very minimum for Sidearms to improve by Support to achieve greater balance.

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=20387463


THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, ENJOY THE REST OF YOUR DAY AND ALL DAYS.



Mr.Blank -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 17:45:19)

^
I don't really know do I have any say on this, since you've seemed to look into this Strength issue. But wouldn't this just turn Support into an overused that? Let's take TLMs for an example: after this change is implemented they'd start the battle first and would use their Sidearm. Then they'll hit the opponent with Artillery Strike for some massive damage. After that they would use Auxiliary. If necessary, they heal. Then comes the rage Artillery Strike and if the opponent is still standing after this, they'd start this circle again, starting with the Sidearm. See my point here? Support would become too offensive if this change was made. On the other hand, I'd like to see some Support builds again. [:)]



fhiz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 19:20:05)

Give tactical mercenaries a debuff in place of field commander. Intimidate would make the most sense, but i would be fine if they got smoke back.



Xendran -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 19:24:59)

Game is literally impossible to balance without rewriting all of the stats, having an hp<->mp value, a turn cost value, and allowing varium items to be purchased with large amounts of credits.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 20:40:05)

Varium items purchased with credits wouldn't work. This is because the current varium buyers would feel like they were cheated out of money and wouldn't play anymore.

Giving TLM smoke back does make a little more sense ever since their Tech was taken away. Just remember, give back smoke, no technician; give back technician, no smoke.


Strength Issues are currently what is keeping this game from being enjoyable. A level 30 bloodmage with low defenses and high strength should NOT be able to beat an extreme tank cyber hunter level 34; however, they do.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 21:02:28)

Smoke was taken out because of synergy with Strength based skills. Technican was taken out due to empowering Smoke, Bot and SS.
And if Smoke is to come back, Reroute goes. They considered that, but went with removing Smoke since Reroute would be probably an overkill. Intimidate would be good enough though in place of FF, more useful.



Guppy -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/11/2012 21:07:33)

quote:

allowing varium items to be purchased with large amounts of credits.


Lolwut, buy some Varium and don't be so cheap, you want those items buy some Varium. I pay for Varium so I get better items, not so some Credit hoarder can just do the same as me without paying.



FrostWolv -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/12/2012 5:15:39)

people complain about BM str build .... well I have a suggestion BM have three main moves :- FireBall, Deadly Aim and Bludgeon
I guess by removing one skill with less decent skill may help ... like removing Bludgeon with assimilation may work and BM may even have an opportunity to drain EP atleast by 10 at max and their Strength build will be bit balanced



Mr.Blank -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/12/2012 5:56:14)

^
That's an interesting idea, FrostWolv. I thought about giving them a minor energy regaining ability called as Recharge. It just occured to me that Strength builds would need to be weakened in order to do that. Now, if Assimilation would replace Bludgeon this would be possible. I was thinking Recharge should be placed in the Reflex Boost's slot and that Reflex Boost should replace Intimidate. This 'Recharge' I've been thinking of would give BMs a slight amount of energy back each turn. The Scaling would be the following:

Level 1: 1 point of energy given.
Level 2: 2 points of energy given.
Level 3: 3 points of energy given.
Level 4: 4 points of energy given.
Level 5: 4-5 points of energy given.
Level 6: 5 points of energy given.
Level 7: 5-6 points of energy given.
Level 8: 6 points of energy given.
Level 9: 6-7 points of energy given.
Level 10: 7 points of energy given.

It just occured to me that 2 other new classes have an energy regaining ability of some sort. So why not giving the BMs one since they don't even have a passive armor?



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/12/2012 7:02:27)

quote:

like removing Bludgeon with assimilation may work


I don't actualy see that as a nerf but whatever... It might make my 5 Focus BM even better...

@ Above

After a lot of testing and retraining, I actualy need Intimidate in my BM build...
It's what makes me survive a STR BM/BH ( Reflex + Intimidate )

Are STR BM Strong? Yes, Yes they are... but I'm still able to beat them...
They only have such a High Winrate because they always get lucky with the Hits...

If blocking would be more ' reliable ' then BM would end low in the OP list



FrostWolv -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/12/2012 9:24:11)

@Above
quote:

I don't actualy see that as a nerf but whatever


Well I am not talking about nerfing BM ..... I am talking about nerfing little OPed combo of Strength BM and it will on other hand may give rise of making different build by introducing assimilation instead of bludgeon



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/12/2012 9:59:35)

Problem is DA simply, not Bludgeon or Fireball. It was said even before Zerker was swapped and since players still find it a problem with weaker Bludgeon then doesn't that hint neither of them was a problem to start with? e.e

Blocking should have minimum rate as it does now but maximum being 100%, which would obviously be not possible to reach unless you had major difference between the opponent (such as let's say 150+ stats). Then scaling would be also a bit different to allow us to reach higher thus making them more reliable but since they go for easy solutions, just scratch the idea! :D -.-



Xendran -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/12/2012 18:22:45)

quote:

Lolwut, buy some Varium and don't be so cheap, you want those items buy some Varium. I pay for Varium so I get better items, not so some Credit hoarder can just do the same as me without paying.


First of all: http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3566/tyuh.png

Second of all, games with pay2win have a tendency to fail. People will generally either not pay or pay less if they feel like they're being forced to pay. Also, time = money, so they ARE paying. Pay for convenience, not power.




ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/12/2012 20:09:33)

Yea, feeling like you are forced to pay to win sucks. You know what would suck worse? Seeing a free player with the same weapon you payed actual money for and finding out that advantage you payed for was gone. To put it simply....They will NEVER make varium weapons available for credit only because that would be about the dumbest thing they could do.



Xendran -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/12/2012 20:25:39)

Actually, it's the smartest thing they could do, because when somebody doesn't feel obligated to pay, they're more likely to pay anyways.
You do realize you'd have to farm for hours and hours an dhours on end to get a high end weapon, right? This isn't something that you'd be getting cheap. And as i've said, pay2win games have a tendency of failing and becoming unprofitable.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/12/2012 20:32:24)

@Xen It's kinda too late for free versions of Varium gear. Many people would feel ripped off that they payed money for items they could've farmed for instead and got for free. Taking time to get something rather than having to pay isn't a big deal to a majority of players here.



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