RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (Full Version)

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Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 20:43:20)

Halty when TLM had smoke people used a str TLM build with it to overpower the masses. Heck the Str TLM is still OP even without smoke but if you want a quick kill build use this with max poison and you got it.



halty -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 20:44:41)

but still they should have a debuff not smoke like a new skill?



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 21:36:03)

Since you think they need a debuff skill, why not a move that can reduce the effectiveness of a random move by 25%?



D.v.D. -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 21:37:48)

We haven't had a support debuff skill yet..



deltaknight7 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 21:41:04)

at this point a supp debuff skill would be utterly useless maby intimidate?(a less powerful version) for me at least commander isnt that useful



veneeria -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 21:52:42)

Support debuff sounds actuality good, but maybe a slight comeback of support as a cool stat? that field medic not improving with support was really a huge arrow to the knee.



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 2:17:02)

staff has already said that they are planning on having field medic improve with support again, but on a lower scale than before. I'm really looking forward to that. :D



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 2:20:03)

Want a debuff for TLM? Take out Reroute instead. They won't give it back unless you take out Reroute and I doubt you'd want that. Ashari said it herself even when Smoke was removed.



The Astral Fury -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 8:01:29)

I'd want smoke screen to replace reroute.



deltaknight7 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 8:21:08)

tlm is defensive we dont need smoke we do need reroute how about giving them technican again bloodshield is kinda useless



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 8:58:35)

quote:

tlm is defensive we dont need smoke we do need reroute how about giving them technican again bloodshield is kinda useless

Umm , 5 Focus + Bot + Surgical + Technician ?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 11:28:29)

And not including how Mineral would go well with this. >.> Maul for Stun Grenade should be good enough since Grenade is weak for people so Maul is blockable instead but has different stun rate and ignores 20% defences too.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 11:45:23)

Maul and/or Frenzy and/or Double Strike can potential reinstall a slightly weaker Strength Tactical as seen last year around this time of the year.

Frenzy with Field Medic (tripled en place with Reroute) may form a synergy that is comparable to Bloodlust but still a brick wall. Spam Strike attacks with a solid defence and Strength Tactical Mercenaries fade back in. Remove Frenzy and this will be a moderated change.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 14:32:37)

I was wondering.

How would it be if Deadly Aim was made into Real Number based instead of the percentage based?

Here is my thought:


Deadly Aim
Passively increases the damage of the equipped sidearm

Level 1: 1 extra damage
Level 2: 2 extra damage
Level 3: 3 extra damage
Level 4: 4 extra damage
Level 5: 5 extra damage
Level 6: 6 extra damage
Level 7: 7 extra damage
Level 8: 8 extra damage
Level 9: 9 extra damage
Level 10: 10 extra damage



Stat Required: 24 support step 2 (42 support max)
Level Required: 10

Improves With: none
Warm Up: none
Cool Down: none


I feel that adding it as non percentage based would benefit the lower levels while making the higher levels have to add more to get that benefit of +10, because with the gear out now, you can get +10 at level 8.

I also strongly feel that Deadly Aim should be capped at 10 extra damage. With a 36 damage gun, with the current system, we will have +11 damage.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 14:36:00)

The problem with that is that it doesn't scale and as we get up in the levels past 40 or so then a simple 10 damage won't even get past the armors released. Right now we have hybrid armors giving a total of 10 at lvl 35. In 15 levels we could easily have 20 def/res added. Plus at low levels, 10 extra damage is unbelievable. I would do 30-40 in the pre 20's range and I wasn't even getting +7 on my gun yet from DA.

Edit: Doing some research shows that we're getting roughly +3 on armors every five levels so in 15 levels we very well could have 20 on armors.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 14:38:55)

Fixed number? Since Level Cap can go very high at some point, 10 damage won't do much. Newer passives are scaled by Level, DA is also since it goes up based on Gun's damage which is based by the Level. 10 damage is a lot early on but say at Lvl 50, it may not be as much since PA/MA will probably reach up to +15 Def/Res (level scaled), leaving DA UP'ed in fact; DA is only useable on Gun, Armors always work but Rage. But if +11 won't be fine soon with +36 Guns, how is +10 fine at say Level 15? Not at all..
Slap in the face for TMs who don't abuse it and hurts non-Str BMs. >.>

Also Void, removing Frenzy? Yes removing TLMs unique skill is great idea. Maul was fine before, it was taken out due to Smoke and much higher Frenzy since it went too well together. No Smoke nor as OP Frenzy now so where's the problem? It's blockable too if you didn't notice. Averages out.



Bunshichi -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 15:12:33)

Requires a club and has a 3 cooldown I don't see the problem.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 15:14:15)

Can not really say that Frenzy is a "unique" skill. Frenzy is basically an enhanced Bloodlust in a Strike... and no animations either.

That is not the point though, this proposal of 1, 2, 3, 4 Strike skills on a skill tree all improving in impact by each point of Strength. That screams in a high-pitched voice "abuse me!"... Strike each turn to either: increased damage, stun (and increased damage), drain health, or destroy energy.

Smoke Screen. One skill missing that increases physical damage and chance to connect. Not necessary when these other skills can burst instantaneously.

Blocking does not average out a skill's impact. Blocking affects all Strikes in a random fashion. You can not say this "will block". Then the player stuns and connects with Maul, followed by a powered Double Strike or 10 health level 1 Frenzy.



DanniiBoiixD -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 15:28:22)

I like the current way field medic works.



deltaknight7 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 20:12:29)

unless those skills are upgraded they arnt that powerful and if they DO get upgraded they cost more energy so energy would run out fast reroute dosent give energy that fast unless under heavy attack



zippinbolts -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 21:18:01)

hehe, the TLMs are gonna rise soon. I found a way to work a heal loop build again.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 23:12:37)

@raynie
I support that idea because I threw it out there several times before. It would probably weaken strength bms slightly but that's about it.

I just got this idea from Borderlands 2 though.
What if we had 3 skill trees?
One offensive (blockable and unblockable skills, passives like DA, FC), one defensive (skills like DM, passives like hybrid) and one with tactical/strategic skills (skills like emp, stun, static charge, a few weaker offensive skills like double hit, passives like reroute) with a bit of defense and offense as well.
There is a passive at tier 2 and 4 (the better being at 4).
To get to the next tier you are required to invest 3 skill points in the previous skill.
You start the game with 3 skill points you can place in any tier 1 (you put 1 in each, all 3 in 1 skill, 3 spread out in 1 tree, etc)
Using the BH skill tree for example, you would have to have lv 3 cheapshot to get to BL and lv 3 reflex to get to massacre. But having level 3 BL does not mean you would be able to use multishot or stun grenade.
You would be able to use multiple skill trees, so if you wanted some tier one and 2 moves from 1 skill tree while mainly focusing on another you could, if you wanted to completely spread them out you could, if you wanted to split it 50/50
Field Medic would not be in any but would be a free skill that ALL players have access to and they can level it as they please.

This would slow down class hopping because lets say one person's build got nerfed. He would normally go "oh great now I have to switch to stand a chance" but now he would probably just go with a different skill tree since the other 2 were unaffected.
It also puts all classes on an equal playing field because all classes would have a usable offensive, defensive, and mixed build instead of the current: TLM- defense, BH-offense, CH-defense, BM-offense, TM- offense, Merc-either



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 23:18:54)

@Black It would affect every build with DA(pretty much next to all of them) and be useless at higher levels and OPd at lower levels.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 23:53:11)

^
You can't even use DA until level 10 so for max you would need to be level 20, the weakest gun at that level does 25 damage which is currently +7, the strongest is 29 damage which is already a +9, so we are looking at a 1-3 damage increase every 2 turns. It also has a support requirement so a level 20 with max DA would have invested a lot of his skill points in support which makes it harder to fulfill the requirements for the guns his level (actually all level 20 guns require dex, tech or strength while none require support).



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/11/2012 23:54:31)

@black And if we reach lvl 50 where buying armor alone would give you around 20 points of protection?



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