RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (Full Version)

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Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/9/2012 23:06:33)

Eh, class specific skills. That is not a problem for me since Cheap Shot only exists in hunters anyhow.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 2:20:40)

Ok guys. No flaming :3



I had this....idea that I had when I was standing putting away boxes...

What if, and I say this with all possible relevance, what IF Static Charge became...a passive?

O_O


NO FLAMES. Please here me out.

And this is ONLY if Plasma Armor is taken away.

ok.


Here is the NEW/Old skill idea :3


Static Charge:

Passively gain a percentage of every hit you GIVE to your energy pool and receive a deflection increase per level of Static Charge obtained.


Level 1: 2% of attack damage to energy pool
Level 2: 2% of attack damage to energy pool; 1% deflection increase
Level 3: 4% of attack damage to energy pool
Level 4: 4% of attack damage to energy pool; 2% deflection increase
Level 5: 6% of attack damage to energy pool
Level 6: 6% of attack damage to energy pool; 3% deflection increase
Level 7: 8% of attack damage to energy pool
Level 8: 8% of attack damage to energy pool; 4% deflection increase
Level 9: 10% of attack damage to energy pool
Level 10: 10% of attack damage to energy pool; 5% deflection increase

Weapon Required: NONE
Stat Required: 20 technology step 2 (38 MAX)
Level Required: 2
EP Cost: 0 (passive)
Improves with: NONE
Warm up: 0
Cool Down: 0

Damage and EP Regen is BLOCKABLE

This may seem low, but here is some math:


Say you hit an enemy at 34 strike damage at max Static Charge. You then gain 3.4, which is 4 EP.

Say you rage and crit a 51. You gain, with a max SC, 5.1 or 6 EP back.


HOWEVER, this SC is limited to amount of strength held, amount of dexterity held and luck.


So, in all, a CH can THEORETICALLY gain ( at the fault of average, or 16-20 damage) 20-35 EP regained, based ENTIRELY on the amount of rounds, blocks, and damage given.


And for those saying it is overpowered and that TM and TLM gain small EP...think of this...


A cyber using this SC has 20-24+35 damage. They strike an enemy with 26-32+5+1 defenses. Say the Cyber hits 21 damage. The Cyber will gain 2.1 or 2 EP.


Ok. Now say a TM has 25-30+5+1 defense. Say an enemy hits them with 19-23+35+10 gun damage. Then say it hits 31 damage. The TM will gain 10 EP from this hit if the have max Reroute! :O


take the damage differences


50 damage given on a cyber is 5 ep regained.
50 damage taken to a tm/tlm is 15 ep regained.

The Cybers EP regain is limited to strikes, amount of damage, amount of dexterity, and luck
The TM/TLM EP regain is limited to ALL attacks and amount of defenses.



Now. Thoughts? No flaming. Pwease? *sad puppy look*



Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 2:29:46)

@above
If they don't have plasma armor, sound's good
Maybe I would give the class another go

EDIT: I wish I could have tried CH before plasma armor was put in, and static charge regained like... 50%



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 2:35:50)

@ Above


Static Charge gained 55% at 80% damage, which was equal to 44%


And yes, CH was a fun class in the old days when PA was not introduced (depressed void [:@])





TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 2:38:44)

change plasma armor to technitian and tactical mercs have their mineral shield because it evolved from hybrid armor mercenaries.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 5:44:32)

Technician Technician. Take away PA and give them passive EP or HP regen. If not then it won't work. <_<

And CHs wanted passive defence back then so fact PA is Merc's Armor makes no sense. Reroute is Mage skill so why do TLMs have it? Malf is TM skill so why do CHs have it?



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 6:52:44)

@trans i was talking about rainey day's static charge turning to passive skill suggestion. she said that make static charge a passive and taking out the plasma armor from cybers. and i was suggesting wat skill to replace in its place.



DanniiBoiixD -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 7:27:35)

Why not make that static charge right there usable on every damage type like bloodlust. Doubt it will be OP, cause the extra damage that you can convert into energy will be much the same as it would with strike, just you won't be forced to abuse strength to get a decent amount of energy.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 7:31:43)

Errr, that's a passive so take out PA first. And it was suggested before. Passives are meant to aid you not be a must in the build though.. Certain passives are now but once they revamp them which can take time due to mainly 'Shari being away, and they will not be must in a build but optimal.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 8:09:50)

@trans well bloodlust and reroute is the most used and popular passive. and plasma/mineral armor is a must need for survival for a cyber hunter and tactical mercenary since they got no energy/defence shields. and shadow arts is the extra which i just spend points on it to not make my other skills take up so much energy points.



Drianx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 9:01:25)

@RaynieDay
Now that is an interesting suggestion, I support it.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 9:38:43)

quote:

Reroute is Mage skill so why do TLMs have it? Malf is TM skill so why do CHs have it?


@Trans,

This is the last tine I will quote this, but the evolved classes are hybrid breeds of the primary classes. The child of a Tech Mage and Bounty Hunter is a Cyber Hunter- the child of a Tech Mage and Mercenary is a Tactical Mercenary- the child of a Tech Mage and Bounty Hunter can also be a Blood Mage- and this is what bothers me! It should balance by having the child of a Mercenary and Bounty Hunter be a Armored Hunter of sorts... and a Cyber Hunter should really be a mage! I am not sure how, but when the evolved classes were implemented, someone dumped (a memory dump) on the blueprints!



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 9:39:38)

I know they are, Void.. <.< I was just saying to Trizz since he said that PA is a Merc skill. So pretty much I used your example really.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 11:24:51)

Raynie Do you hate Plasma armor so much that you want it removed from Cyber hunter completely just so Static and get a buff or changed? Before Plasma armor came everyone said the class was so underpowered that the class needed buffs left and right.

Removing Plasma armor would truly make Cyber hunters Underpowered once again but at an even worse scale since they won't have their passive protection while all the str builds and every other build out their would walk all over them. While the idea sounds nice the class would once again become underpowered unlike how it is now.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 11:43:37)

Passive skills should not be offensive nor defensive. I stand on the side of passive skills to give neutral, minor boosts that cannot be exploited in one build whereas they fail in another.

Example, Bloodlust fails in absolute defence, but succeeds in absolute offence.



DilZZZ -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 12:15:29)

quote:

This is the last tine I will quote this, but the evolved classes are hybrid breeds of the primary classes. The child of a Tech Mage and Bounty Hunter is a Cyber Hunter- the child of a Tech Mage and Mercenary is a Tactical Mercenary- the child of a Tech Mage and Bounty Hunter can also be a Blood Mage- and this is what bothers me! It should balance by having the child of a Mercenary and Bounty Hunter be a Armored Hunter of sorts... and a Cyber Hunter should really be a mage! I am not sure how, but when the evolved classes were implemented, someone dumped (a memory dump) on the blueprints!


What the Fish with child this child that? Hunter is hunter and mage is mage and merc is merc. Cyber Hunter is Tech Based class. So their skill must technology/energy skill related. Same goes to Blood Mage, blood thirst type of mage which is related to physical attack. But the weird part of BM is the why there is Plasma Cannon? It not seem 'bloody' at all and also goes to Overload, Plasma Rain and Supercharge. The skills should be physical like Fireball which is physical type attack of Plasma Bolt.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 12:57:30)

@mother1


If you see in the past threads, people are allowed to suggest their opinions. -_-


And how would removing Plasma Armor make Cybers UP again? Replacing it with Technician and making SC a passive?


Think before you type. Here is a scenario:

One of the most deadly classes right now is the Strength Bounty Hunter. They smoke, strike, strike, massacre, rage gun. ALL gaining HP. They have energy shield and reflex boost to protect against damages.

Well, this is the Cyber Hunter's new tree with revamped SC and technician.

They can malf, strike, strike, massacre while gaining nice EP from the Malfed Strikes. This extra EP they can use towards a heal, and then they can restart the sequence over again.

Right now, I feel Cybers can't really defend well against a strong energy attack.

A typical tank cyber will have 30-36+5-1 defense and 28-34+5-1+10 resistance. The resistance is 42-48.

Ok. The dexterity, since the defense is 30-36, will be in the 93-96 range. With technician, it can be heightened by:

1 technology x technology
-------------- = --------------
4 dexterity 93 dexterity


take 93 and divide it by 4. That is an extra 24 technology gained on top of the level difference, giving about 39-42 technology gained at level 1.


Say the Cyber has a level 4 Technician. They can easily add 48-51 technology points, which when added to the 28-34 resistance, which is 84-87 technology, will become 132-138 technology, which is 38-46 or 39-47. That is a heighten or 10-11 resistance points.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 14:05:56)

Raynie I am thinking before I post and I know people are welcome to post their ideas here. However I remember you saying that no one wanted PA passive quite a few times, and that because of this passive Static was nerfed into the ground. However I also remember that before PA came the class itself was underpowered and the class needed passive protection so they gave them Plasma Armor for this.

Also I while your idea may sound good on paper, it would also rely on people adding a whole lot of dex for technician to be effective. Also remember while a Cyber hunter can nerf smoke with malf a BH can also nerf technician with smoke. If said bounty hunter goes first and uses smoke then the resistance and tech you would gain from technician wouldn't be as effective plus there goes your plan to have 4 turns of resistance greater then PA. Then there are also those BH or players who have the Azreal borg which nerfs buffs that can also destroy this plan as well and if combined it is even less tech and resistance.

But even if this doesn't happen you also said it yourself that you fell CH don't have any kind of protection for str BH and even with giving them back technician if a BH has a Physical primary the turn you used Technician for would go down the drain as well since they can bypass it. It would be just a wasted turn and the str BH would still walk all over the CH. It would be no different then before with the exceptions that it would be more of a gamble for the CH then the str BH.

Lastly with this idea if all the cons don't happen and all the pro do it this would only work well for Tank CH while putting the rest of the builds CH could use at a disadvantage. Str CH would get a nerf since they wouldn't have the passive protection (which could be looked at as good or bad) as well as any other build that doesn't want to use tank build. Plasma armor while it may not have been deserved by you and a couple of other people does work with all builds and gives protection that can't be nerfed, while Technician is a gamble at best, and can be nerfed in strength if the BH uses smoke before they use it, as well as the Azreal borg taking 65% of the tech away after it is applied.



kingpowerlord -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 14:09:48)

Don't mind me asking mother but wouldn't getting erid of PA discourage tank builds as well as strength builds since tanking would be harder, I fully support turning SA into a passive.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 14:21:02)

Kingpowerlord, I was going on what Raynie was talking about, and with the formula she was going on about it would seem her idea of a passive along with adding technician back would be promoting tank builds. Also if PA was removed the non tank builds would also lose this protection and would have to worry about said protection just like they did before it came along. CH would once again become UP and would be forced into spamming tech and dex for tank build just to hope to compete where as with Plasma armor the points invested in tech could go into other places.

As for the passive itself even though I said that static originally was OP (which it was) this passive even with the increase chance for deflections seems UP to me. When people rage the current static now I sometimes see 9-13 energy gained back were as with this new static as a passive if you would need of damage to gain a decent amount of energy back. since at max 1-14 damage gives you one 15-24 gives you 2. (if it is round to the nearest whole number) If anything 5 energy per turn at max would work better since with this it heal loops (which was the reason for static's last nerf) would be hard unless you are playing a long duel, and it wouldn't be OP.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 14:56:42)

@mother You can't have a fast heal loop build. They're supposed to be tanks that take a long time in battle because they're trying to heal away all damage so SC giving them so much over a long period is only helping them heal loop.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 15:33:50)

@ ND Mallet but at the same time if I remember correctly that was the main reason why Static was nerfed to the point it was now to prevent heal looping. Some time ago Cindy herself said that was why they nerfed Static into the ground.

Also with the new passive raynie mentioned would be added to in to remove PA and while adding technician in it's place. I wasn't around when CH had technician but from what those who have been around said in their posts the class was UP and needed added protection which was why PA was added. My concern with undoing this is that CH would become UP again since they don't have that passive protection plus unlike before they don't have the OP static giving them back 20+ energy like before.

Also at max the static passive would be ineffective against tank builds and with the varium and non varium gap this passive wouldn't be able to help non varium CH all that much. With the way static is now at max for every 3-4 damage you gain 1 point of energy where with raynie's it would be 3-14 would equal one energy. at 14 damage with this way static is now at max you gain 4 points of energy so even with the added 5% extra chance of deflection the passive in turn would be a nerf for it's true purpose which is to give back energy.

Also ND Mallet even if a CH healed on the first turn they can't heal again until turn 5 and with the way duels are these days not a lot of them last to heal twice let alone three times especially if you are dealing with energy draining builds.



halty -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 20:28:18)

What bout tlm think of it they don't have a debuff skill, all other classes do? should we do something about it. Pretty much all classes can have a build in 1vs1 to win super quick. But tlm don't. We should improve tlm and maybe add a debuff skill(not smokescreen though, even though i don't get y they removed it :/ )



Bunshichi -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 20:33:05)

My lvl 2 smokescreen could do -30 and I could do it about 3 times in a match



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/10/2012 20:34:30)

@halty: Smoke Screen was removed because of Reroute, Frenzy, Defense Barrier and Stat Debuffer altogether was too much of a good thing. In order to replace balance, they were granted Field Commander that doesn't affect the opponent directly compared to SS. TLM is meant to be tanky, not quick kill.



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