RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (Full Version)

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gangster a -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 5:17:13)

^ what it effects them a lot tech mage casters cant regain enrgy so a second plasma bolt would be impossible secondly blood mages can regain health therefore you can kill them unlike before and increasing strengh maybe i should have swapped them around you hv a point but they still should be changed in my opinion



King FrostLich -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 5:25:35)

Ever heard of strength tech mages with malfunction? Even if you switched the effects the classes themselves don't make sense with their passives switched. Blood Mage can take advantage of Plasma Cannon along with reflex boost to be infinitely spammed so whether you try to switch and readjust them in any other way, it won't make anything good out of it.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 5:25:58)

Changing dex even more would nerf the defensive strategies. I personally agree that Dex Abuse is kind of rampant, but nerfing it to ever 6 would be...I say...corrupt to MANY classes.


Maybe like Trans has stated before, nerfing strength to another point in progression...

*(new damage scale)*

(Strength: Damage)
13: 4-5
16: 5-6
19: 6-8
22: 7-9
26: 8-10
30: 9-11
34: 10-12
42: 11-14
45: 12-15
50: 13-16
55: 14-17
62: 15-18
67: 16-20
72: 17-21
77: 18-22
84: 19-23
89: 20-24
97: 21-26
106: 22-27
112: 23-28
118: 24-29
124: 25-30
130: 26-32
136: 27-33
142: 28-34
147: 29-35
151: 30-36
159: 31-38
166: 32-39
173: 33-40
180: 34-41
187: 35-42
194: 36-44
201: 37-45
208: 38-46
216: 39-47
226: 40-48



*(old damage scale)*

(Strength: Damage)
16: 4-5
20: 5-6
24: 6-8
28: 7-9
32: 8-10
36: 9-11
40: 10-12
44: 11-14
48: 12-15
52: 13-16
54: 14-17
62: 15-18
67: 16-20
72: 17-21
77: 18-22
82: 19-23
87: 20-24
93: 21-26
99: 22-27
105: 23-28
111: 24-29
117: 25-30
123: 26-32
129: 27-33
135: 28-34
141: 29-35
147: 30-36
153: 31-38
159: 32-39
165: 33-40
171: 34-41
177: 35-42
183: 36-44
189: 37-45
195: 38-46
201: 39-47
207: 40-48



As you can see, I lowered the strength stat points cost in the 4-5 to the 14-17 range. I then let a few DAMAGE scales stay the same with the same amount of STRENGTH..

HOWEVER, you will see a significant increase in Strength stats at the 20-24+ range. It was a small nerf, but Strength Abusers who usually have 23-28 to 27-33 DAMAGE, which was 105 to 129 strength needed will see a LARGE decrease, meaning that they will need...112 to 136 strength points needed.



SO:

OLD system...

A strength BM wants an insane, stupid used build of 28-34 strength. They would need 135 strength stats. The new system makes it where they need 142 strength stats for 28-34 damage.

UP Balanced or OP guys?



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 7:14:26)

@raynieday its a good modifier but i think it needs to start costing more stat points of strength when u reach above 19-23 damage. because strength bms dont invest points in energy at all thats wat makes them so hard because u still do moderate damage on them because they have high strength like 23-28 and have around 24-28 defence and resistance and a insane health.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 8:42:38)

It's still kinda funny :

Many people are still actually equalizing Caster TM to other "more effective" previous OPed builds ( i.e Pre-Nerf PA CH and particularly Old STR TLM - you know , the one that had Technician and other game-changing stuff ) from other classes , yet compared to the others , in the long run , Caster won't stand a chance ( especially if they got they EP all drained up , even if they boost ) . Come on , the only reasons i see so far that makes them seemingly "OPed" it's because of boost-hogging and , well , Technology improves Deflects , which TBH the buff on the stat seems pointless , even if it's logical .

To make things back to normal again , why could we just put Deflect back to Support again ? Less logical , yes , but how's that a problem ? If we base it heavily on logics , then DEX would have been the best stat for it , but OFC , too much of the logic part = too much balance problems .

And oh , to the people who haven't witnessed the power of Caster TM before Delta , hear me out : you barely see them win ALL ( only super effective on low levels and / or with enhancements , but the rest , is , well , history ) the time since SUPP TM and Tanks dominated before Delta times ( SUPP FM FTW!).



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 12:38:54)

quote:

34: 10-12
42: 11-14

You have very awkward jump there which means damage at 42 should be +1 higher and same for all ranges. xD Although I see the example of how it is now so no wonder you used the same but that's not important & what I meant with slower progression was (example):

(Strength: Damage)
16: 4-5
21: 5-6
26: 6-8
31: 7-9
36: 8-10
41: 9-11
...
And so on. So at all ranges, it'd go up by +1 more Strength to get +1 more damage. Effectively, it'd be a drop of perhaps 3-5 damage at high Strength (100+) than what it is now. That's a drop of 3-5 damage per Strike and less for DA. That also affects skills such as Bludgeon, Mass, etc. and people suggest to nerf BHs and BMs (Bludgeon) because of Strength's power & what it'll do is destroy the class even more with nerfs and problems will still be there. To add, slower progression means that Support can catch up a little in terms of damage and Rage won't be as bad for people since it'll build up a bit slower. Defence will also be worthwhile instead of sheer abuse of power which is meh..

People mention Rage is broken. Read this:
quote:

The Rage Meter was designed as a counter for highly-defensive builds (tanks) as well as a counter to players that repeatedly consume packs while waiting to use their ultimate skill. A player's Rage Meter increases each time they attack an enemy and each time they receive damage. When the Rage Meter fills completely, all of the player's attacks will inflict increased damage for one turn.

Quote from ED Wiki.

Don't expect to think you can tank high-damage builds like heck, deal good damage due to their low defences AND expect to get rage advantage on top of it. It averages out already and you can also build rage which will ignore their defences and raise your damage output. And either way, if reversing changes to Bolt earlier this year (cheaper EP cost and buff to damage) as well as Fireball getting "buff nerf" - it'd have progression of Str/3 which was so few weeks back BUT it'd have no buff that it also received alongside with Bolt - so they'd deal same damage, it'd be a nerf to Caster TMs which is fine by me since I do realise how powerful they are and BMs would maybe gain on it if we consider more than 100 Strength being invested from the base amount OR Fireball would be left as it is & Bolt would only be changed which would give it same power as Fireball BUT it'd be superior at very high Tech by +1 damage every 12 Strength (Bolt = Tech/3, Ball = Str/4 & use 12 Str/Tech as example giving Tech = 4 damage + Str = 3 damage). Besides even though Bolt would be superior, Str also has its advantages over Tech and BL definitely helps BMs a lot when coupled with Fireball, not mentioning DA.

Simple change to Strength yet would deal with Strength abuse, make defensive builds a bit better to use over sheer abuse of Strength, give small boost to Support in terms of damage output (lower difference) and could make Balance better in terms of nerfing classes. Who wants to see nerfs to classes for sake of Str having quick progression? No one.



The Astral Fury -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 17:17:09)

So were nerfing TM but what about BM?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 17:25:29)

If we slow down Str progression, they'll be affected in form of their Bludgeon, Gun (DA goes with it) and Strike which are all used by them in every fight. 3-5 damage less per turn + more on Bludgeon. Say fight takes 3 turns now vs. them, that's at least 10 damage less taken which is the very least it'd be. More around 15 even.

And problem with BHs would also be gone since people claim it's Smoke + Mass + BL combo which all relies on Str.



The Astral Fury -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 18:09:49)

I would like the power of BM to go down though.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 18:18:28)

Power of BM as in? Specific build or whole class? Str progression would affect Str BMs mainly, would also weaken any other build that utilised Str and Gun + DA so it'd bring the power of Str builds down overall.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 18:59:21)

So, what does everyone think of my concept of terrify?


terrify is a buff to intimidate on the merc class. Basically, it DRAINS the damage output by percentages. It is not affected by ANY stats, it has a 3 turn cool down, it requires 31 EP at max to use, AND it requires 41 support at max to use. This may seem pricey, but this skill is EXTREMELY strong.


Look on the suggestions, labeled Buff to Intimidate.

The percentages currently start at 10% and stop at 45%. Should it be less, more?



carabuno -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 19:11:01)

That is way op IMO 3-4 dmg that is crazy you will leave the oppenent helpless for the (3?) turns that is active , it would be a completly unrealistic skill for A LOT of builds



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 19:17:57)

I was thinking that too. I reworked the formula a bit and I am reediting the skill now.


EDIT!


@Carabuno, look at the edit. I fixed where it no longer affects the weapons damage. Also, I lowered the cooldown to 3.


It looks like a bit stronger intimidate with a small special now.



The Astral Fury -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 19:34:49)

BM is so OP OMG ROLF LMFAO JEEZ LIKE WHY. Back to reality I don't think blood mage is OP but it can be a tad too strong.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 21:14:31)

Dragonman111 it is only the str build everyone is complaining about. However with the way people are complaining about it I don't think they will be happy until it is nerfed into the ground. The Staff already took care of the unblockable undefectable move, now people want the blockable and defectable moves nerfed in other words like I said nerfing the str build into the ground.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/2/2012 21:25:55)

Well mother1, the viable strength way to be placing a reduction in effective, but not strong enough it to send them to the ground is reducing its accuracy by a small amount.



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/3/2012 0:42:14)

Really? We are still talking about bm needing a nerf? Nothing at all changed in the month and a half I was gone? But now people have a problem with caster techmage too? Don't get me wrong. I think we should put the requirement back on pb and possibly increase to 33 energy at max, but for real? Take care of the strength bloodmages already! lol



Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/3/2012 0:50:19)

Give it another month



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/3/2012 0:52:04)

lol tempting :D[;)]



Drianx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/3/2012 3:16:59)

Speaking about Rage, there are some flaws in the way it works.

According to the wiki, the higher the defenses, the more Rage is increased, but

Rage is increased equally no matter if a hit is blocked/deflected or not - for example, no matter if your strike deals normal damage or it is completely blocked, you get the same amount of Rage.

Rage should actually increase more if the hit is blocked/deflected, because less damage is dealt.

This is an advantage for tanks, since tanking dex and tech provides high block and deflect chances, with no Rage benefit for the attacker.



Eventus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/3/2012 3:26:27)

Drianx, are you saying that there's something wrong with Rage?

The last time I checked it was working fine - the more damage absorbed by your opponent's def/res, the quicker your own Rage should increase. The rate of Rage from a normal attack against a normal player vs. a normal attack against a tanking player is not equal... the latter one will have a quicker Rage gain. Adrenaline and your support also influences this rate.



Drianx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/3/2012 3:51:10)

@Eventus
No, you are correct, but I meant something else.

Let's say you attack someone with two consecutive strikes. First deals 20 damage, the second is blocked. In both cases you will get the same amount of Rage increase.

This is not oK in my opinion, because, since deflection chance was moved to tech, one could tank dex and tech and have high block and deflect chances. So basically most of the attacker's hits might get blocked or deflected, but in compensation I think he should get more Rage increase in case of being blocked/deflected than in case of dealing normal damage (no block or deflect).

So definitely I'm not speaking of a bug, but about the fact that Rage would need an adjustment, because tanks now benefit from deflects too, since they were moved away from support, so in compensation the attacker should get faster Rage increase when getting blocked or deflected.



f4tal1tY -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/3/2012 7:59:01)

In my opinion, the only builds in the game which needs nerfs are strength BMs, and BHs.... Bountys are WAY too op, with a defense lower, op lifesteal (bloodlust), and an insane ability which does huge damage no matter how much def you have... Im getting really annoyed at that. Every other class is alright, except TLM, but thats ok imo, cuz most tacticals do juggernaut so its hard for them too.



The Astral Fury -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/3/2012 7:59:42)

You want balance get rid of enchaments there the cause of stat abuse, OP classes, ridiculously high defenses and unfairness for free to players let's get rid of them for just a week and see how it affects gameplay games would be quicker and nicer it really would there would be no ridiculously high defenses where you just do 3's for the whole game. Of course if we do this all classes would need a debuff to make things fair.

Levels 1-25 were fast and fun they gave fairness to everyone why because so one had enchaments to abuse stats and have MEGA defenses.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/3/2012 8:09:19)

Dragonman111 even if they did do that, the moves that are OP would still be OP. If anything if they want balance how about instead of removing enhancements how about just make credit enhancements cheap enough for non variums to fully enhance their stuff? Because either way varium player would have the advantage since Varium gear is slighty better then non varium gear.

Oh and to what goony said about the boomsticks only working with one person with bloodlust is incorrect. I just had a duel with a player who had max blood lust and he raged with the gun. He was able to gain back 22 health from his attack while attack both of us. And this was a str BM I was battling. So as I stated before the boomsticks needs a nerf because I am already seeing str BM abusing this weapon.



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