Whats next for balance? (Full Version)

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doomkiller98 -> Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 19:04:42)

I would like to know what your guys view is on balance atm and what should be done next about balance.

Please dont flame.

I honestly dont know what should be done with balance next...

I have moved this thread to the ED balance section from the GD. Anything on the topic of balance shall be discussed in the appropriate section. ~Wind



Sipping Cider -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 19:13:08)

Balance all the skills in the class trees. Make it actually an option to not invest points into your classe's passive (bloodlust, reroute, armors)



doomkiller98 -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 19:34:22)

quote:

Make it actually an option to not invest points into your classe's passive (bloodlust, reroute, armors)


This might solve alot.



Mother1 -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 19:35:13)

At the moment all I am seeing is this. Player finds a decent build that grants wins, Others copy it, people who don't want to copy this build but lose to it complain in the forums. The staff sees these complaints, and then the nerfs happen.

When those who complain about the nerf speak up we are told to either adapt to the new changes or die. However as I see we might as well die since every time we adapt we are punished for it with nerfs.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 19:57:51)

Assimilate should only give half the energy it grains

Buff Static Charge to 40 or 45%

Restore % on double strike

Make Plasma Bolt improve by every 1.3 or 1.4 tech (restore original energy cost to compensate)

Buff Fireball's damage just a tiny bit

Lower reroute to 27% at max (lower requirment to compensate)

Lower luck % by like 2%

Make massacre cancel bloodlust and have a 15 or 20% health regain

Restore IA's special to 140% at max (while keeping the start at 85%)

Nerf EMP grenade by 5 points (and reduce energy cost by 1 to compensate)

Make Atom Smasher unblockable to be on par with the other drainers

Lower energy cost on Plasma Grenade to beon par with Stun Grenade

Make botanical Borg's Special 110% in 1v1

Lower varium prices on hairstyles

Lower varium price on name change to maybe 900

Give Clubs +1 extra damage (swords will still have more stats)


WOW! It feels so good to get all my problems off my chest! :D







doomkiller98 -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 20:06:12)

quote:

WOW! It feels so good to get all my problems off my chest! :D


This is why i made this thread

quote:

Assimilate should only give half the energy it grains


I dont agree this would destroy tech mages

quote:

Make Plasma Bolt improve by every 1.3 or 1.4 tech (restore original energy cost to compensate)


So would this

Being a mage I can honestly say casting is the only thing we have. And thats what mages do... is Cast




Mother1 -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 20:10:33)

@ doomkiller98

Assimilation was like this originally (the part about it giving back half the energy it steals) and quite frankly I see this as a good thing. It would be a nerf to those caster TM that use max PB max assimilation and with would make the more balanced like it used to be before this crazy buff.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 20:14:03)

I don't see how Assimilate giving half the nergy could be so bad. You got reroute plus a little more energy from this.

Other builds like Battlemage work too, not just casters. Anyway it is a little too powerful. Maybe reduce the damage by 6 to 10 and then restore the original energy cost.



Mondez -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 20:19:25)

I feel that Mother's idea to giving the classes individual skills would help deter to balance seeing as so skill fixes wouldn't affect classes that share the same skill causing an influx to balance.



Mother1 -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 20:20:48)

@ dual

Assimilation never cost energy to begin with but I do agree with you with battlemage since I use this build myself and even though it is a bit underpowered (due to all the nerfs the staff have been handing out like candy) if you work it right it can still be effective against other popular builds.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 20:54:09)

what i would do?
1) get rid of classes, and have titan and rabble write up a new system for Custom Skill Trees
2) balance out the stat system, possibly add in new stat types.
3) balance the skills within the categories of the custom class system.

4) change the entire match making system to be based on %s and not level. for solo, team, and jugger.
5) add in Combat Ratings to better help out the match making system in 2 vs 2
6) add ally linking for 2 vs 2 and juggernaut mode.



Stabilis -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 22:02:39)

Increase base health per level and not be able to allocate points into health as it will be sufficient (proportionally, adding into health will be less valuable therefore it will only work as a sink for trashing points).

Custom classes (to eventually replace default classes).

Lastly, cut away Focus. We treat it as a stat that needs to be balanced with the basic 4 stats when in fact it is simply an overly-complex bonus from equalizing stat distributions).



doomkiller98 -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 22:56:20)

The only nerf i would do to assimilation is have it steal less... but have the amount gained stay the same as it is now.
Gaining energy was what rabble said this skill was supposed to be for... because mages use alot of energy.
And.. any energy steal move can end a caster in a second. (i would know i am one [:)])



nico0las -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/12/2013 23:46:31)

Right now, every class is balanced excluding tech mage. Some classes are more powerful than others, but tech mage is really in hell right now.
Tech Mages cast. That is our job. We cast spells and such. Buff Plasma Rain and Overload. Leave everything else as-is. The fact that the only useful attacks I have as a TM are Plasma Bolt and Supercharge is rather depressing. Give us more options, and we'll be fine.
I'd also like to see a constant drain on Assimilate rather than it improve by strength. At 3 Assimilate I drain 9 energy, that's essentially useless.
I also want Supercharge to improve with Dexterity again, but we all know that's a terrible idea. Too many Dex Mages. I just felt like sharing.

Taking Goldslayer1's statement here:
quote:

get rid of classes, and have titan and rabble write up a new system for Custom Skill Trees


Absolutely not. That would defeat the purpose of Epicduel. We're expected to choose a class and win; I can already see custom classes that are outrageously overpowered.
The principle of "If everyone is overpowered, no one is" isn't right. That will leave the outcome of battles reliant on variables (crits, blocks, deflection, first strike), and this would downright SUCK.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/13/2013 0:07:09)

In my opinion, one goal the staff team should definitely look at is make all skills equal, and make it so that it's worth it to invest in all skills at any level. For example, passives should not be a priority on classes but a skill just like any other that could do with the same investment as some staple skills such as level 3 defense matrix, level 4 malfunction/smoke, etc... Also, it isn't worth an entire skill point and one more EP cost to take an extra 3% of energy with atom smasher, or an extra 2% armor ignoring with cheap shot.



doomkiller98 -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/13/2013 0:12:30)

quote:

Right now, every class is balanced excluding tech mage. Some classes are more powerful than others, but tech mage is really in hell right now.
Tech Mages cast. That is our job. We cast spells and such. Buff Plasma Rain and Overload. Leave everything else as-is. The fact that the only useful attacks I have as a TM are Plasma Bolt and Supercharge is rather depressing. Give us more options, and we'll be fine.
I'd also like to see a constant drain on Assimilate rather than it improve by strength. At 3 Assimilate I drain 9 energy, that's essentially useless.
I also want Supercharge to improve with Dexterity again, but we all know that's a terrible idea. Too many Dex Mages. I just felt like sharing.



EXACTLY! except i don't think making supercharge improve with dexterity is such a good idea.. (Like you said to many dex mages)



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/13/2013 1:13:57)

Overload and plasma rain are fine, they can do decent damage without dex abuse.

And if Tech Mages HAVE to stick to the good 'ol caster build, then there is a problem.



Midnightsoul -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/13/2013 1:20:16)

Classes get bland too fast. I don't see the "epic" in a move anymore.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/13/2013 1:40:08)

@midnight

That's why I have 6 character slots for each class. If one gets nerfed, wave him farewell and embrace the power of your alt O_O



edwardvulture -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/13/2013 2:07:11)

go back to delts



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/13/2013 2:11:34)

@ed

Well that's new! Usually you see players wanting for beta :P



comicalbike -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/13/2013 2:17:16)

i would like to see all builds hidden
if you call this a balanced game then i am sorry i think its far worse now than before
lets scrap all the 6 classes and start again
this time make the game so its all fun so all players enjoy it
also i would like to see the 1/1 and 2/2 leader boards showing the top 30 that would make the other players play more if they see there name there



goldslayer1 -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/13/2013 18:26:24)

quote:

Absolutely not. That would defeat the purpose of Epicduel. We're expected to choose a class and win; I can already see custom classes that are outrageously overpowered.


so u admit that u pick ur class based on what will get u wins instead of how u like to play?
and what purpose does epicduel have then?

and what did u see thats "outrageously overpowered"?

if u seen the rest of my suggestions, its to balance out the stat system accordingly. and then to balance the SKILLS within this custom class system.

if you see custom class being overpowered because it has X skill instead of Y skill, its only proving that ED is unbalanced right now.
take plasma bolt vs fireball for instance.
fireball is suppose to be the physical version of plasma bolt, yet it does way less damage even though it runs on a weaker stat.

while the idea may seem "crazy" to u, i already took the time to put up ways to fix the stat balance system, and fixing some of the skills within this system to make them more on par.

heres one where it balances out Passive Armors vs other skills like reroute and bloodlust



Ranloth -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/13/2013 18:31:27)

That doesn't mean nico0las' point is wrong. There is a possibility of abuse with Custom Classes and taking away the originality of each class. Custom may bring variety but we've already had "suggestions" that would bring variety - by our fellow Forumites - and nothing has changed. Players still go for abuse, and will go for abuse. Once an exploitable custom build is found, players will go for it and good luck balancing that!

Whether you think it's balanced because it's your suggestion, it doesn't mean it really is balanced. Players say Bolt is balanced, some say it's OP. Whom should I believe? Only because one person thinks is good because time and effort was put into it, it doesn't make it good and 100% flawless. Also, this is thread about possible changes that players would like to happen (or speculate, somewhat) rather than advertising suggestions... <.<



goldslayer1 -> RE: Whats next for balance? (5/13/2013 18:40:01)

@trans
thread asked what i would do.
i answered, i simply linked so i dont get any answers of people saying "no!, i dont wanna see reroute, bloodlust and hybrid armor in the same skilltree" when they dont know how the system works. its just for details.

quote:

Custom may bring variety but we've already had "suggestions" that would bring variety - by our fellow Forumites - and nothing has changed. Players still go for abuse, and will go for abuse. Once an exploitable custom build is found, players will go for it and good luck balancing that!

with the current balance we're only limited to 6 classes with X amount of builds per class that are actually viable (most of them being focus)

if u think we have variety, then make a list of non focus builds for each class at lvl 35, that is a good viable build to use.

quote:

Whether you think it's balanced because it's your suggestion, it doesn't mean it really is balanced.

some say the game is balance, and some say it isn't. doesn't mean its balanced either.

i know u been here since beta, so tell me, has ED ever had balance between all of their classes at any 1 point?



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