RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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pitties -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 13:52:52)

umm why cant it have extra goodies? just further lower skill damage! it didn't stop paladin from getting 2 hp heals and a heal passive plus mana regen!




tthorn4 -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 14:04:47)

quote:

Paladin shouldn't have had one to start with and only has one, as I said before in that thread, because the original one had it.


Also, if you want all the regen goodies, just play paladin.




Faerdin -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 14:36:43)

I enjoyed this revamp so much that I purchased the full Dragon Coin set of the Death Knight equipment and have the items saved. It has just about everything someone could ask for in a Class: plenty of defensive options to keep yourself alive (With moderately long cooldowns, which is fair), a plethora of powerful attacks that feel SO satisfying when they land, and the simplistic yet highly effective animations of old. I'm already counting the minutes and seconds until I can make Death Knight my default Class. Every revamp is better than the last, Ash! :)

@pitties: Death Knight's strength has to come with a price. I find the high Mana costs a welcome addition. Otherwise, the Class would have felt a little less balanced -- even for a Tier 3.




pitties -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 14:39:03)

well this is supposed to be the same tier as timekiller for example... and timekiller plays so much better easily second best class in game (it has like every goodie with no price lol)! Does this mean all the tier 3s I've gotten used to will be nerfed?




DarkLore -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 14:39:30)

Can DK get an updated version of the old default weapon. The one right now looks mismatched. An better art version of the old would match better. Also... Why go for the upgrade system you did. I didn't realize the system until it was too late. Now I have to refarm for lvl 60 gear and I'm stuck with the lvl 50 ones for now.[:(]




Faerdin -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 14:43:55)

Forgot to mention: the revamped art for Death Knight is just... so, so pretty to look at. I feel like someone who just admires their reflection in the mirror, because I keep staring at my character and thinking, "Damn... I look GOOD!" It just meshes so well together. And the Death Knight items even look pretty good with Riftwalker, if I may say so myself. Really, this revamp was incredible all-around. :)

@pitties: TimeKiller might be on the higher end of the Tier 3 spectrum since it was part of a special offer.




tthorn4 -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 14:58:12)

Good lord, this farming is taking ages. I thought I'd seen the last of these quests when I finally got my destiny weapon up to snuff!

@Faerdin *grumbles about Chronocorruptor*




Ash -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 15:21:46)

quote:

umm why cant it have extra goodies? just further lower skill damage! it didn't stop paladin from getting 2 hp heals and a heal passive plus mana regen!


quote:

well this is supposed to be the same tier as timekiller for example... and timekiller plays so much better easily second best class in game (it has like every goodie with no price lol)! Does this mean all the tier 3s I've gotten used to will be nerfed?


Why can't it have extra goodies? Why can't all classes have things other classes do? For a very simple reason. That makes all classes THE SAME. Trading power for more goodies is a limiting factor and one I don't use often. Paladin is an exception because of the original skill set it had. If I went through and made it the class it *should* have been it would have had 2 heals, the passive and the 20% heal, along with a cleanse. It wouldn't have had 3 heals and a mana regen. Since the original Pally had all of that if I had changed it to what it should be there would've been more people yelling and screaming because it's not "DF's Paladin" anymore. It wouldn't resemble the original at all. I went against my better judgement and balanced the class in terms of total skills instead of a lean like Offensive or Defensive.

"Hybrid" classes are a horrible thing to balance. Both offense and defense is present but yet they can't be equal since it's not a perfect balance. One will always take more precedence. There's also the issue that a "hybrid" HAS to match up in the eyes of the players otherwise they'll throw a fit. Is DK a perfect hybrid of Pally and Necro? No. It has a few of the skills of each tweaked but the most powerful ones of each aren't present. Where is Necro's healing shield and Seed? Where is Pally's full heal and cleanse? This is the reason I flat out told you all no to hybrids like ChronoWeaver. They aren't going to happen because if we don't put in every single "defining" skill they are seen as not "complete."

Why does DK need a mana heal? Because its skills cost a lot of mana? Because Pally had one (even though I have said it shouldn't have)? Why should DK have one when MSW doesn't? When KA has a tiny one that's completely useless and a waste of a turn? Both of those are tier 3's and heavily damaging and do well with either none or one that's useless. What is the validating reason that you feel DK HAS to have a mana heal? If it's only because Pally has one, no that's not a good enough reason. I already went over why hybrids are a horrible thing. If it's because you don't want to invest in the Wis stat, which you arguably should to utilize any higher level classes, then that's not a reason.

DK is not a special offer class or a holiday class. It didn't originally have a mana regen so I'm not going to add one in just because the mana costs are a bit high.

quote:

Why go for the upgrade system you did. I didn't realize the system until it was too late. Now I have to refarm for lvl 60 gear and I'm stuck with the lvl 50 ones for now.

Because I was trying something new. Stop rushing. All of you rushing to get every single item NOW are doing it wrong. The items aren't going anywhere. Stop trying to blow through the content in a day. Seriously, stop trying to rush through everything. You're not paying a monthly sub so you don't have to grind as fast as possible. As I've said for every other time people are upset that it takes a while or it's not a perfect system, you don't have to get it all at once. Slow down.




Edorath -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 15:28:46)

Wait if i am lv 60 what do i need, 4 Umbral Essences per DA item?




DarkLore -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 15:31:54)

You need two from what I read. So that's 12 resource each. If you're shooting for the lvl 60 sets.




tthorn4 -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 15:34:43)

@Ash
Sorry, man... I may complain a lot, but I'll get it eventually. I'm taking my time. Heck, I still haven't gotten the Aventail.




Edorath -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 15:34:57)

Oh, ok thanks!

Also lol at the resistances when wearing the default weapon.




pitties -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 15:36:37)

@ash: so basically any rare classes and special offer classes wont be balanced... they get to be OP because we paid money and its not available any more? IDK about others but I would like to see the Ash touch on old special offer classes. Especially the shadow base classes and the calendar classes.

I understand now why DK cant have all the goodies. In choosing offense over defense hybrid, it lost a few defensive points but gained offensive ones. thanks!




Ash -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 15:40:33)

pitties - I never said they wouldn't be balanced. I said that they get a few bonuses that other classes won't within reason. Quite honestly I can mess with them if I want to, the only one I won't for any reason is DmK. I'm not mainly because, for the most part, they aren't all that crazy strong. The Calender classes are alright for the most part, TK is a tad high but that's because you need the charges for half their skills.




DarkLore -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 15:47:04)

Can we get a change on the default DK weapon? It doesn't match at all. Very good revamp though. My favorite tied with necromancer. Great job ash! You deserve it!




Ash -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 15:48:59)

That would need to be brought up to Chronix as he did the art.




DarkLore -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 15:50:47)

The wellness looks good. Just mismatched. I was expecting it to be an updated version of the previous default. What is this evintails people are talking about?




tthorn4 -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 15:58:47)

@Darklore
Baetal's Aventail, it's the soulweaver artifact with the 1% drop chance. It's farming caused bugbears to become an endangered species.




DarkLore -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 16:02:59)

Oh the artifact! I forgot! Lol! Hey ash... what do the passives do again and what skill switches them?




Renn Shadowheart -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 16:06:43)

@DarkLore There are 2 passives, which are both called Necrotic Presence. One is the DoT which does Curse Damage and stacks every turn and the other is the HoT which stacks every turn. You can change the passives by using Shift on the far left, which will change the DoT to Hot and HoT to DoT. You start with the DoT in every battle




trinityfrost -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 17:30:10)

Do the new DK items count towards the Empowered Armor skill or does it only work with the old ones?




Edorath -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 17:34:18)

The new ones count too, which is amazing, since we will finally be able to use DK to it's full potential.




Dracojan -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 17:41:51)

there are quite a few changes to the new dk. the one that i find kinda out of place is the skill that makes the enemies to hit themselves. its a necro skill and i dont feel like dk needs it.
the most notable one is the new coil. it has been nerfed dmg, heal and duration wise but its now a neutral element. it is quite a nerf overall but considering all the other skills have high dmg and many strong effects, im not raging as Ash though i would. :D
anyway, as always its a great revamp. good job ash.

on the art though, from afar the armor looks a bit brownish... i dont like it when i look at it from a great distance but it looks well up close.




DarkLore -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 17:45:03)

You guys should be giving a big thanks to Cronix on the art! He designed the armor and items.[;)]
Its interesting to note that Malifact isn't the only DK besides those two sisters. His dialogue perfectly states there were other DK's. The items also imply as such. Hmm...




Dracojan -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/27/2014 18:37:50)

the 100dc weapon is really nice. am i mistaken or is it even stronger than nsod?




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