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Caststarter -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/25/2015 22:08:26)
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(I am just going to say this right now that this post of mine is a first where that where every paragraph develops my thoughts further and further so if things contradict, I just never thought of the comparison. So sorry for being a bit scatter-brain.)
So I been thinking about the stat update with how the stats compared to each other. With more... knowledge about it, there are a couple things that bother me. I will admit just about every single thing has been improved but to me it is simply the balance aspect of things. While others has said that maxing any of the main three stats is not worth it and been said that items will give out more of the main stats than Cha or Luck, it is still rather hard to see the three main stats OR Cha being worth it in the end. I only have 35 extra in terms of my main stat which only increases it about 3... which is not much of a difference in the end. And since Cha only increases Guest and Pet damage but you actually get LESS of it... it seems to be the least useful stat now. If you just max luck, you are JUST below compensating half of your max possible damage. But you get all the other effects to compensate yet they are rather... marginal. Which leads to the point that... is Luk, Cha, OR the three main stats even worth it? End gives an extra 1000 HP and Luk gives an extra 10% to dodge. So in this case it is "Taking more hits VS avoiding them entirely." Luk does not really do much at lower levels until about level 40, I guess End is the way to go. But at max level, Luk might be better in older quest where enemies have no bonus at all. Yet at the same time in newer quest... is End more appropriate? End most likely will only allow you an extra 2-10 hits depending on the situation and the Luk may allow to avoid all of it or none of it. Until one realizes that enemy bonus might simply negate the possibility of it happening where 10% is not really much to negate it. Yet enemies have the damage to make End pointless.
Which, sadly, leads to the next thing that bothers me. It is still rather easy to NEVER use any of the traditional stats. As in if you just simply focus on M/P/D or Crit, you will never need anything else. I get that the point is to make everything perfectly viable and if you do not invest in any of the other stats, you will never be able to compare to a person who actually did invest in any stat, but the stats almost feel rather... unnoticeable. I think the problem is that stats themselves are simply too simplistic. Yet at the same time people do not want the stats to mimic that of AQ(...which is simply just about any RPG/JRPG out there.) which makes solving this very problematic. I guess the best that can be done is that Luk does not give any bonus damage and increase damage from the main three stats to +40-50 and allow Luk to give a +15-20% chance to dodge, hit, and crit. I suppose Cha might need a slight chance even though you WILL have an +30 damage if you have two guest AND a pet but guest able to take damage I suppose will compensate for that, where I will admit it does in the current way everything is set up right now.(Despite extra enemy HP.) End VS Luck will be a problem afterwards and I am not sure how to suggest on helping making both worthwhile. Maybe the suggestions might do the job as now if you focus on both, you will have the best defense in the game. But if you go for a balance approach with anything maxed out on End, is a "mighty glacier" approach worth while? I suppose RNG will make things finicky but something to think about it.
In hindsight though, the previous set-up did... inflate the three main stats usefulness where, let us be honest, to the low amount of choices that were viable, it was better to just do End and your main stat to be fully efficient. But now since they simply give a straight up damage boost... it is hard to truly make it seem worth it. If you can ever max out both your main stat and Luk, you will have about +30 damage and MAYBE +5 from items... which is not that much. With a simple +30 damage from pure stat investments, and assuming you do about an average 200 damage per turn from pure skill + weapon damage... with just the latter in ten turns you will do 2000 damage. With both you will do 2300... a 10.5% increase. Now, this is in line with how other stats do which is oddly enough revolves around the number ten... but here is the thing. Once you do a class that is able to give you an average of 400... the average in 10 turns will be 4300 which is LESS than 10%. And there arrives the problem where Luk at the very least gives other effects, your main stat does nothing but give more damage. Remove your main stat and it will be 4100... a loss in 200 damage so you only lose a turn of damage. Now it simply is a case of going for End or Wis. So... is there still a case of where there are simply three stats to go for to be fully efficient? In a sense... yes. And it mainly revolves around that Cha and the main stats simply give a damage buff while End gives health, Wis gives mana, and luk gives a smaller damage buff BUT increases your chance to crit and dodge. Come to think of it... I think the main problem ever since before is that the main stats were never percentage based. I realize that the way things are set-up right now, it technically follows that as long you stay around or below an average of 200 damage but once you get higher and higher, the problem becomes more and more apparent. If they were percentage base and Luk does not give bonus damage, they might be worth using. Same goes for Cha.
Now if there is a way that it is practically required(or at the least recommended.) while not making things not like AQ (Again, like any other RPG out there.), then I will be truly happy with everything. I just find it too easy to get around any problem if you just have updated equipment where you have a predicted level of M/P/M and Crit... normally in a RPG you are not suppose to give glass-cannons defensive equipment as it does not do much in the end aside being able to dodge. unless you want them to take a hit if the stats allow it. Vice versa, you are not suppose to give tanks offensive equipment unless they have the stats to be mighty glaciers. But usually there is a drawback for doing just that. But in DF... it feels like there is very little.
I will admit I do not know how to suggest to help solve this... but at the very least it can be seen. I guess the main problem I have is that DF's stat system is just too... simplistic for any real balance to occur. I know that DF should be along casual lines (where recent bosses are, to be honest, going against that line.) but at the very least if there is to be any real balance, the main stats at the very least should not just give a damage buff. But people do not want DF's stat system to be like AQ so again... not sure how to suggest to help solve it.
Again, everything has been improved in every way possible but there is still more work to be done. Thankfully, this is a long process that, if properly done, will help everything in the end.
@Below: That is right. But then, while Cha is actually better, it just further emphasize that the three main stats are in fact the least useful in the entire game. Now. Having two guest has the problem of tripling enemy HP. So if the average boss HP is around 1000. Having a pet is kind of there to simply replace the loss damage you do for focusing on Cha and not doing anything for the main stats. Two guest will triple the boss HP to around 3000. Let us pretend that guest does an average of 100 damage.(Think of the guest that people tend to use basically, just lowering their damage a tad.) You have an average of 200. Add in an extra 30 of your pet so technically your damage is around 230.(Assuming average pet damage is ten.) Add in guest damage and you have about 4700 damage per turn. To deplete the enemy's HP it will take about 6.3 turns. Now. Let us say you focused on your main stat instead of Cha. You will do about 220. Pet does ten. And guest do their regular 100. You will now do about 430. This will take you about 7 turns. This does not look good. Now what if you have one guest? Boss HP will now be 2000. So the comparison is now this. Cha= 2000/350=5.7. Main stat= 2000/330=~ 6. No guest? Well, since you are going to the same amount of damage on both ends, you should have the same number of turns to do it. But for the sake of knowing how it will go, 1000/220 =~ 4.5.
So we have this predicament where the main stats are simply... not worth investing in any shape or form.
You will ALWAYS go faster if you do Cha unless you have no guest. But even then, Cha is STILL more useful. You can have a pet that can do an effect without sacrificing anything. And if you are stunned? Your pet can still do small amount of chip damage where without one, you will do no damage at all. The only downside for PETS, is that they have a mediocre hit chance which I suppose is the downside to using them. But... that is really it. So, I guess Cha is the second least useful stat... but it just emphasizes that the main stat do not have an advantage of any kind. The only way you can make use of them is they HAVE to be used with another stat. But... you are limiting yourself in the process for doing so.
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