RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (Full Version)

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crabpeople -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/19/2015 13:04:59)

Changing the subject I realized that potions are affected by the stat resistances. I thought all this time that they were fixed amounts...

Dracojan: Yeh I know all of that but I thought the potions were a fixed amount no matter what. Maybe it's because I use potions outside battle like 90% of hte time.



Dracojan -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/19/2015 14:24:40)

yes, they are affected by all, health and mana stats. positive values reduce the effectiveness while negative increase it. thats why its best to use heal with dragonlord when you dont have +50all skill on you.



Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/19/2015 15:12:06)

I do have just a couple more things to say before we give up:

quote:

well ppl use strats with 0 str and 0 luk and they have the exact same argument. does that make both stats useless? they also dont see any monsters surviving with just a litttle bit of health frequently.

The difference between 0 and 200 is many times larger than the difference between 200 S/D/I and 200 Luk; you're being facetious here. But then that's sort of your style, it seems. I'll admit it was funny at times. ;P

quote:

when comparing 2 stats i cant compare them on anything else other than the things they give. which has more bananas in it? idk, you tell me.
its not about preferences for me, more like its for you. comparing 2 values is easy and absolutely objectional. idk how you make it opinion based. 150>140. doesnt matter if you think otherwise. and you actually do which is what amazes me...

See, that's exactly my point. Yes, obviously 150>140. But what you're saying about these stats is that 150>140 + 1 + 10, simply because you don't value the "+ 1 + 10" part. You say that damage is all we can compare, but that's completely incorrect. So you can feel free to use all the ad hominem arguments you want to belittle my position, but the only difference between our conclusions is still just that I care about the "+ 1 + 10" part.

Also, I am the player that did the 1k hits tests (plus a couple more I haven't posted yet because I'm lazy), so I'm pretty sure I already knew about them, hahaha.


Edit: But, you know, this discussion has driven home that Ash really did do an amazing job with the stat revamps, even if I still say that Luk is superior to Str/Dex/Int at the moment. I may sound ungrateful with all my math attempting to prove my position, but that's really not the case at all; the simple fact that we could have such a discussion about the viability of a stat shows how much the system has improved over the previous one, and as with all of your recent DF projects, I am very happy that this happened and brought some life back to DF.



admahu -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/19/2015 15:31:17)

I don't know about your calculations, Sakurai the Cursed, but mine were fairly "inaccurately" based on 100% damage per turn. Idk if it's intentional or messed up like crits, but stat damage is added before skill multipliers. So if you use a 250%+ skill every turn, like most of us probably do, STR/INT/DEX will pull ahead a bit/lot more.

edit: yeah, I see the ratio stays the same, but the actual value of damage increase might become big enough to matter to the person. e.g. someone may not care about losing 25 damage over x turns, but might think 40 is noticeable



Dracojan -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/19/2015 15:59:25)

quote:

quote:

well ppl use strats with 0 str and 0 luk and they have the exact same argument. does that make both stats useless? they also dont see any monsters surviving with just a litttle bit of health frequently.

The difference between 0 and 200 is many times larger than the difference between 200 S/D/I and 200 Luk; you're being facetious here. But then that's sort of your style, it seems. I'll admit it was funny at times. ;P
well actually thats your own argument used against you. there is always difference. but would it matter? for those with no offensive stats it doesnt. for you, it doesnt... frequently.
though you may be right that im a bit facetious.

quote:

See, that's exactly my point. Yes, obviously 150>140. But what you're saying about these stats is that 150>140 + 1 + 10, simply because you don't value the "+ 1 + 10" part. You say that damage is all we can compare, but that's completely incorrect. So you can feel free to use all the ad hominem arguments you want to belittle my position, but the only difference between our conclusions is still just that I care about the "+ 1 + 10" part.
when comparing im not leaving anything out. its all included. in your calculations its all included as well. if it isnt then where did the +1+10+x come from?

quote:

Also, I am the player that did the 1k hits tests (plus a couple more I haven't posted yet because I'm lazy), so I'm pretty sure I already knew about them, hahaha.
you saw the effects of bonus and you are concluding that you need more? how does that even work?
when/if an enemy comes with high enough defences where those few points would matter, then id value it more than right now.

quote:

But, you know, this discussion has driven home that Ash really did do an amazing job with the stat revamps, even if I still say that Luk is superior to Str/Dex/Int at the moment. I may sound ungrateful with all my math attempting to prove my position, but that's really not the case at all; the simple fact that we could have such a discussion about the viability of a stat shows how much the system has improved over the previous one, and as with all of your recent DF projects, I am very happy that this happened and brought some life back to DF.
fully agree. id expect more stat discussions soon while we search for the ultimate build/s.

^ if the skill has increased crit chance, auto crit or norml crit chance then there will be a different amount of advantage to str. the ratio remains the same no matter the skill modifier. the flat dmg increases by the factor of the skill modifier. so if you do 5dmg more with 100% dmg skill then with a 250% dmg, youll do 12.5 dmg more.



Melissa4Bella -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/19/2015 16:15:04)

Alright guys, cool it. Thanks! :)



Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/19/2015 17:30:21)

@admahu - In general, I don't assume any amount per turn, but rather simply find the base damage. But the one time I did assume an amount, when I said "+2-3 damage," it was with 200-300% assumed. :)



Roxas45 -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/21/2015 1:09:30)

Can I make one last quick suggestion?

If you're not gonna increase the Wisdom stat properties, then can you please please come up with an easier way of training the mana potion alchemy?
or reduce the mana costs of certain classes by a mere 5%



Brasca123 -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/21/2015 1:18:49)

ash said mana training is next in his list IIRC, it should be remade soon



ewallace -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/21/2015 13:01:02)

One thing that really annoys me is Boss/Higher Tier monsters using hardhitting (and awesome) attacks that more often than not apply some kind of effect without using any mana when thay have huge mana bars.
Pretty much the only monster of any description I can thing of off the top of my head that uses mana is the Dewdrop Fairy from the reagents quest.

I mean come on, it's all well and good for bosses and mini bosses ect to be challenging but the mana attack skills should be of some kind of use outside of PvP.
It just frustrates me, especially when I get my mana drained by monsters not using theirs! [>:]



Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/21/2015 13:07:44)

It's not a built in function to auto drain mana. There are some bosses that do use mana but we have to remember to physically build that into them and sometimes in trying to get the release out we forget to amid all the other bugs or issues that pop up. We are trying to work on a function to put into monsters from now on and to work backwards and put it on older monsters so that they do use mana for their attacks but it's not a simple nor fast process to update every monster file in the game.



ewallace -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/21/2015 16:13:29)

Fair enough, it's just something that irks me somewhat



AGreenAlien -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/22/2015 22:13:18)

Ash said:
quote:

<link>


I just had to say that I really appreciate those responses. I don't know, if you guys have always been working this close with your community, but hearing all that talk about what you're working on, what options you have, and how you may have to ask the other guy to chip in in his area as well really makes me smile.

I just tried some of your Android apps, too (AdventureQuest Dragons and Fat Panda). Just keep doing what you're doing. We need more people like you, and I hope you get compensated accordingly.



Shadows Morgenstern -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/23/2015 12:54:10)

@Ash: Don't know if someone else has said this yet but the Plushie Escherion pet still gives me a straight 30% crit bost from 34% to 64%. Not totally sure if it actually does but it shows it in my stats anyway.



Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/23/2015 12:56:19)

Only Crit from items is halved, not from buffs.



Shadows Morgenstern -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/23/2015 13:23:27)

@Sakurai: Thanks! Sorry, I haven't been up with DF as much lately. xD I sort of hope that might be nerfed a bit. .-. I love the Plushie Escherion pet but it's crazy OP.



unkonate -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/23/2015 15:10:05)

[:@] Not Lovin' the nerfing on the wisdom. Worked long & hard trying to get that up there. For what. Absolutely nothin'. Say it again...
Oh well. Enough belly aching.



The ErosionSeeker -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (3/30/2015 21:21:37)

I think this was added in conjunction with the other icon revamps, but Bacon now has an icon, and that is awesome.



Branl -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (4/2/2015 16:29:42)

I have to say that in terms of Str/Dex/Int vs Luk, that they both have their own advantages.
The main damage stats have the advantage of being a static amount of damage that can reliably deal more damage than Luk, however Luk isn't static and can hit harder than the damage stats if one gets lucky enough.
If stats were weapons, Str/Dex/Int would be 72-96 while Luk would be 65-100
Luk also has the other nice bonuses going for it, so it all hedges on whether you are willing to compromise reliable damage for these bonuses.
I personally opt to go for max Luck, because I have a mix of Dex and Luk, and when you make a mix, the damage difference becomes smaller and smaller the more you invest in both stats until the difference becomes microscopic at 200 Luk, 100 Dex.
Being the only stat that does anything significant in Dragonrider quests and having those small little bonuses pushes Luk>Main damage stat for me



The ErosionSeeker -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (4/2/2015 16:33:38)

Another thing to note, the sides of the interface scrolls have been lowered, now I can see a little square of red even though I need 999999999 xp to level up further.
Great changes all around.



Branl -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (4/5/2015 21:47:48)

Questions:
Is it possible to have the game add up your total crit then half it? (Rounding down if odd)

Will Kid Dragon be getting buffed? For a guest that increases enemy hp, it's kind of underwelming. Primal Fury is a good skill and all, but it does 600 damage at most, has a incredible long cooldown that carries over in battles, and is usually outdamaged by just one of Rolith's normal attacks.
The Guest itself (most guests for that matter) has no way of defending or healing itself and it's damage range is that of a pet.



Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (4/5/2015 22:31:41)

In a short answer, No.

In a long answer. No, I'm not going to adjust crit up at all in any way. It was nerfed for a reason. Crit was never supposed to be the "main damage stat" that people were treating it as. Over time it crept up and overshadowed everything else when that was not the stats original intention. It's *still* not where it needs to be, but if I nerf it to where it does need to be I'd have a full scale riot because of knee jerk reactions. (If you all notice at the current crit rate you aren't really having any issues are you? Mmmhmmm) If we're being completely honest you don't need any crit above 20 at all. (You don't need any more than 10 with DoomKnight if we're being honest) With how classes are now stated you have more than enough damage that anything above a 1 in 5 chance of a crit is overkill, plain and simple. You all may not like hearing that but it's the truth. You're getting a 50 cap total because I was trying to be nice and lessen the blow of "nerfing" it. The intentional "bad" scaling from items is just that, intentional. It's meant to help slow down rushing to the cap and it's an additional layer along with the item stat redo's that I'm trying to get ready to do to limit the overall "overkill" damage that was done. If the notes I'm seeing all over the place of people trying to get "maxed nerfed crit" are any indication my attempt to make it more in line weren't heeded for what they were.

The Rolith and Ash guests will be adjusted damage wise to bring them into line with the other guests in game. The same goes for Symone now that she's a perm guest. As for the Toddler and Kid dragon guests, eventually we'll update them. It's a very large project to do so though as it requires redoing all of their built in skills as well as adjusting a lot of other back end stuff to make them work right. Once either Verly or I work through the back log of other stuff that needs doing we'll get to them but it's going to take a while to get that much free time.



DarkLore -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (4/5/2015 23:11:30)

Can Kid Dragon be fixed too? It still looks like a toddler when summoned as a pet.



SheLooked18ToMe -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (4/6/2015 2:15:03)

Will pets ever get a revamp and become useful?



Branl -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (4/6/2015 2:16:53)

Because the DC cat pets, who can deal 300 damage on non-weak attacks, is weak?
Umm...



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