RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (Full Version)

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crabpeople -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 13:35:50)

mmm so far... (this is my opinion. I didn't test all the classes)

Impact on classes

Buffed

-Ascendant: Now it has a good shield for those turns where blind is in cd.
-MasterSoulweaver: Now the class has a good shield that can be used to recover some mana or to use synch at the start of a battle. Although it needs high WIS investment (100+).
-Ninja: The defenses are better and dot damages are more valuable with the crit nerf. Still needs a decent WIS pool or u might run out of mana before you kill a boss.
-Pyromancer: Probably the third favourite of the stat changes. The shield now is way better and the dots are way more valuable. A must have for defensive players. Also it might be the best class for low-mid level players.
-Shadowhunter: It got all that this class needed to be good. A turn 1 reliable defense in order to defend itself in mult battles or to pull safely a blind/stun combo. With a small investment in WIS (+-60) you're good to go. Seriously the second favourite. Use this class.
-Cryptic: The biggest winner right here. Now that +25 crit is way more valuable. Also this class is now a BEAST in the defensive aspect with his 180 and 140 d/b/p skills. Finally the +30 crit from veil doesn't feel useless anymore. If you want to go back to the old times with 70 crit and reach 100% crit go for this class.
-Entropy: The dot's are more valuable and womb is better now. (ty Hopeful)
-Warrior/Mage/Rogue: The defensive skill is more useful now. Also Rogue stealth crit boost is better with the new crit standarts (ty Hopeful)


Nerfed

Most of the mana issues can be solved with a 100+ WIS build and high level character.
-Doomknight: mana (recomended lv70+)
-Deathknight: mana (rec. lv60+)
-EvolPKL: mana (rec. lv60+)
-IBR: mana (rec. lv50+)
-KAA: mana (rec lv 60+). Although the shield is way better now and Ash mentioned a possible change to the mana skill for a % mp heal. (ty yuttt)
-RW: The fact of losing raw damage from crit chance hurts this class a lot. Although now his realm change skill is Wayyyy better and worth using as much as you can.
-Technomancer: Techno already needed a high WIS pool to be used effectively. The thing is that now his mana pool is lower so it will lose mana at a higher rate making his mana grenades drop damage faster than usual. Just a lil damage nerf overall.
-Togslayer: One of the biggest losers damage wise.
-Pally: This class lost some damage alongside RW and Togslayer. Still a good class vs undead.

Stay the same

-Dragonlord: You might need some WIS if you're a Dot spammer.
-FMA: You need some WIS just in case RNG hates you with the spirit procs.
-Necromancer
-Dragonslayer: You gonna need WIS investment if you're not fighting lizards/dragons.




garrigaisaac -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 14:48:07)

Why can't you update the hair selection all the hair is boring




jesse aike -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 14:50:15)

sadface, i LOVED my mana for my doomknight... i kept it well fed... and my mana and hitpoints were invested at 50wis 50str.. now i need to invest moar in wis >,m,< talk about a low blow below the doomknight belt X3ohh well.... lets hope this dont impact future classes to come




Ithraen -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 15:03:34)

Okay, I've done some testing/playing around with the new system, and I'd like to share my opinion. Sorry for the inevitably long post. o_o I tried to get a fair feel for things from different perspectives/different quest types, and I'm fairly happy with my conclusions. I'm sure there's something I haven't thought of, but I haven't thought of it, so I have no idea what it is. -_- SO! My two favorite classes are Riftwalker and Technomancer. Both fairly mana-intensive, one pre-9.0 and one post-. Seems as fair to rigor as I can really be without hours of testing.

Before I start, I'll share my stats. I haven't respecced at all, no gear changes, nothing different from before the update, as I wanted to see how much changed before pouring over math to respec and do want to see what a proper spec with the new stats compares later on. So let's get to it!

Level: 70
Health: 2380
Mana: 940
Str: 145+37= 182
End: 135+45= 180
Cha: 0+9 = 9
Luc: 0+24 = 24
Wis: 65+34 = 99
Crit: 34+1 = 35 (Total with the new luck)
Bon: 36 = 36
M/P/M: = 44/46/45
P/D/B: = 02/09/06
Dmg: = 74-90

I ran two types of quests on each class. One standard changing-rooms maze (endurance test), and one boss fight (damage and survivability test). Here are my thoughts from each class, new and old, both fairly mana intensive, with no stat changes to actually spec properly for the new stats.

Riftwalker:
Still feels powerful. Got through the endurance test without using a mana potion/healing pad. Yes, I got low, but I had those resources left unused, so my 940 mana seems to be in a good spot. The fights didn't feel slow, though I did notice how comparatively rarely I crit. Mainly because non-crits on this class before were always a surprise. It feels powerful, can still crush mobs using the same old rotation. My shield is now amazing. Any time I used it I simply couldn't be touched. Before the change I still got hit at least once before the shield wore off, usually twice-thrice on multi-mob fights. So defensively I'm in a good spot. I'm probably going to take points out of endurance, in fact. As for the boss fight, my old rotation felt just as powerful, killing the bosses in roughly the same amount of turns as before, so the crit nerf hasn't affected me as much as I expected.

Final thoughts on Riftwalker: Still feels powerful, feels tankier by far, and had no mana issues to speak of. Once I adjust my spec/gear, I think these changes will make it even stronger.

Technomancer:
Oh my. I was nervous about this one because of the wisdom nerf. I was sure it would make Mana Grenades useless over long fights. It.. sort of did, I suppose, but not for the reasons I thought. It was the crit change that made me adjust my rotation. Instead of blowing MG top priority after buffs knowing they'd all crit for massive damage, I found myself using my guaranteed crits more regularly. Force Sword hits like a truck now, as does my multi, and they're both more useful than MG. But that's not because MG got weaker. It's because auto-crits are actually useful. MG hit for ~70 non-crit with full mana, and at the end of the endurance at ~260 mana it hit for ~50. A nearly 700 mana difference and I lost 20 damage a hit for a total of 60. That's noticeable, yes, but it's certainly not going to destroy the skill. Interestingly, Technomancer seemed to fare better in the endurance tests than RW despite one of my major skills getting weaker as I run oom. I still completed them without potions or healing pads, and ended up with more mana than my RW runs left over. As for the boss fights, Tech did surprisingly well. The shield takes me up to ~160 M/P/M, which.. is laughably strong. Standard Buff, 'nades, FS, overclock, repeat still works wonderfully for melting mobs. It doesn't feel as strong as RW, but it never did. Now I feel like Technomancer is usable again in spite of the Wis nerf.

Final thoughts on Technomancer: Doesn't feel as useless anymore. I'll need to respec/change gear, and I do hope the class gets an update to bring it in line with the new classes, but I barely got touched, did decent damage, and didn't have any mana issues. All of this without changing anything to properly use the new stats. Technomancer's in a better place than it was before, in my opinion, even with the Wis nerf.

All in all, I like the stat changes. They're going to let me use gear that isn't just what has the highest crit, and they're going to make me think more about my spec/rotation, but I see no downside to that. Still powerful, still able to crush mobs, but only if you think. This is what DragonFable should have been. I'm certainly excited to get into the game and make my character awesome with all new builds.

TL;DR: The world hasn't ended. Adjust, adapt, evolve. Get into the game and see for yourself. You're not ruined, you just have to plan now. Mana isn't even an issue with my piddly 65 base, and we do have potions. I can't remember the last time I had to use a mana pot. I'm looking forward to having to again. I'm all in favor of these changes, and I'm definitely looking forward to what's yet to come.




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 15:10:34)

quote:

Doesn't feel as useless anymore. I'll need to respec/change gear, and I do hope the class gets an update to bring it in line with the new classes,

Umm...it already was revamped, (I took care of that a couple months ago) that's why it was doing so well. All the classes but Pirate, Ranger, GPS, Guardian and a few small tweaks to a few other classes are all done and on post 9.0 standards.




Ithraen -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 15:18:36)

Huh. Fantastic, then. That explains a lot. XD It's been a bit since I played, so.. Thanks for the correction! ^_^ That's incredible news. I had no idea. o_o Off to tinker!

It's really good to see all of these changes/updates coming in. You guys do good work, and it's much appreciated.




Hopeful Guy -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 15:38:19)

quote:

Buffed

-Ascendant: Now it has a good shield for those turns where blind is in cd.
-MasterSoulweaver: Now the class has a good shield that can be used to recover some mana or to use synch at the start of a battle. Although it needs high WIS investment (100+).
-Ninja: The defenses are better and dot damages are more valuable with the crit nerf. Still needs a decent WIS pool or u might run out of mana before you kill a boss.
-Pyromancer: Probably the third favourite of the stat changes. The shield now is way better and the dots are way more valuable. A must have for defensive players. Also it might be the best class for low-mid level players.
-Shadowhunter: It got all that this class needed to be good. A turn 1 reliable defense in order to defend itself in mult battles or to pull safely a blind/stun combo. With a small investment in WIS (+-60) you're good to go. Seriously the second favourite. Use this class.
-Cryptic: The biggest winner right here. Now that +25 crit is way more valuable. Also this class is now a BEAST in the defensive aspect with his 180 and 140 d/b/p skills. Finally the +30 crit from veil doesn't feel useless anymore. If you want to go back to the old times with 70 crit and reach 100% crit go for this class.


Nerfed

Most of the mana issues can be solved with a 100+ WIS build and high level character.
-Doomknight: mana (recomended lv70+)
-Deathknight: mana (rec. lv60+)
-EvolPKL: mana (rec. lv60+)
-IBR: mana (rec. lv50+)
-KAA: mana (rec lv 60+)
-RW: The fact of losing raw damage from crit chance hurts this class a lot. Although now his realm change skill is Wayyyy better and worth using as much as you can.
-Technomancer: Techno already needed a high WIS pool to be used effectively. The thing is that now his mana pool is lower so it will lose mana at a higher rate making his mana grenades drop damage faster than usual. Just a lil damage nerf overall.
-Togslayer: One of the biggest losers damage wise.
-Pally: This class lost some damage alongside RW and Togslayer. Still a good class vs undead.

Stay the same

-Dragonlord: You might need some WIS if you're a Dot spammer.
-Warrior/Mage/Rogue
-FMA: You need some WIS just in case RNG hates you with the spirit procs.
-Entropy
-Necromancer
-Dragonslayer: You gonna need WIS investment if you're not fighting lizards/dragons.


enTropy is a winner here, it actually has a shield now (Womb can defend), Needles is useful and the DoTs are effective. Rogue is better because Stealth has some useful effects now.




David the Wanderer -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 15:39:30)

First of all, let me say I plain love the UI update! Everything feels shiner, more exciting. Looking at the interface is now a feast for the eyes, much more interesting than the old, plain UI. Now, when I open my backpack or the quest log, I feel much more interested in the flavour text. And don't get me started on the new log-in music... I think I spent five minutes just letting it play and enjoy the background.
My only complaint would be that now the exp bar looks a bit out of place, but it's not that big of a problem, and I think I'm getting used to it already.

Now, on the technical aspects. I haven't played a lot yet, so I have yet to thoroughly test everything, but I feel that the new stats are doing a lot better than the old ones. They are easier to understand, and feel like they impact more. I haven't been too shocked by the crit nerf (I never focused on crit a lot), and I can honestly say my battle speed doesn't seems to have been affected that much; maybe I'll have to spend one or two turns on a battle than I was used to (depends on my luck), but it isn't that much of a problem, personally.

The WIS nerf was a bit shocking, since I was used to having ridicolous amounts of mana. However, the key word here is "ridicolous": that was more mana than any player would ever need. Now I plan my strategy more, thinking about which skills I will use. Of course, my main classes are Paladin and DragonLord, which means I can run out of HP/MP only if I want to, and thanks to the increased effect of D/P/B, their shield skills are much more useful!

I'll have to experiment a bit to find the best build for me, but I'm really satisfied with this update. I'm currently fighting Akira with Paladin to see how well I fare with my new respecced stats, and I think I'm doing pretty good so far. Maybe I'll move some points around, but all in all, the game is a lot more fun to play. Great work, Ash!




Cylia -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 16:21:08)

With the stat changes, I might try the BeastMaster route. I never had a reason to use pets before. I didn't keep any pets in my bag and never bothered to ever summon my dragon during quests. I'd hate to spend the gold and then discover I dislike the build, and then have to retrain. I'm still ridiculously overpowered using RW with my current build, even with the nerf to Crit and WIS.




11eo1 -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 16:38:01)

A stat change I would love is if luk (or any stat) contributed to attacks like life carve, where you have a chance to heal and a high luk would increase your chances, increse your chance for things like the destiny and doom weapons' DoTs to happen, increase your chances to stun people and not be stunned (unless I don't understand stats and something already does this). This is probably difficult since they're all unrelated things but I always thought there should be something that affected rolls that help in battles that aren't damage




Dracojan -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 18:32:26)

well, luk already increases the chance for life carve indirectly. luk gives bonus, and bonus makes the skill hit. with high bonus, the skill always activates.




Dragonman -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 18:37:28)

This is an odd issue, but I just miss the old login music. Can we put that somewhere else in game maybe?




dragon_monster -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 18:41:31)

What are you all talking bestmaster build is not viable 27+ damage at 200 cha what game are you all playing?




Dragonman -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 18:44:59)

On the subject of a beastmaster build, was the amount of extra HP baddies got by bringing guests nerfed? Because it hasn't really been viable to bring most guests since like 2008.




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 18:55:37)

quote:

What are you all talking bestmaster build is not viable 27+ damage at 200 cha what game are you all playing?

The Bonus from Cha + Pets/Guests + weapon damage is. A Beastmaster build isn't meant to only let your pets/guests do all the damage. You still have to do something so your damage along with the pets equals out to be a bit more than average if it was just you. Pet damage ranges need to come up a little bit in some parts to make that happen though and that's happening during the item adjustments I'm doing.

quote:

On the subject of a beastmaster build, was the amount of extra HP baddies got by bringing guests nerfed?

Pre-9.0 quests never had that. Post 9.0 were slightly adjusted yes. That combined with the amount of damage guests now do, yes I know I still have some I have to update, means you can bring one to any quest now.




Adel -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 19:00:31)

I see we moved to 14.0.2 now, bugfixes? :P




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 19:02:01)

Pet dragon fix to no longer do 0 damage along with setup to help me fix other temp pets doing 0 damage.




Slayer Zach -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 19:14:03)

Woo, bugsquashing! Great job!

I've noticed that with the 80% elemental resistance cap added in place, that monsters have been affected too. Is that intentional?




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 19:18:24)

No they were not. I'll go figure out why as it's not located in the place monsters pull their stats from.

And that's how 14.0.3 is born.




TomixRoolz -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 19:55:03)

I like that this finally stops me from ever healing the enemy because I am using the wrong element! Thanks!




Yuttt -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 20:28:27)

quote:

Nerfed
-KAA: mana (rec lv 60+)


I'd like to note that with the buff to B/D/P, KAA's shield skill (Effect: Increases your Dodge by +255 for 3 turns.) is now very useful. 255 Dodge gives you an extremely high chance to dodge attacks, except for monsters with obscene amounts of Bonus. From a tiny amount of testing, it seems better than the regular +140 to each. It also lasts 3 turns instead of the regular two.




rendalith -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 21:41:04)

What I would really like to see fixed are the quest rewards. It's insulting to do a quest 36+ times in order to find the one item that matches your class and level.




admahu -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 21:54:32)

You guys all know that DoomKnight was released before the Wisdom stat even existed, right? [:)] Idk if the mana costs were updated after 9.0, but it sounds like everyone has just been spoiled by WIS.[8|]

edit: Kathool too




TimeKiller -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 23:00:13)

Ash what have you done Dx i miss my 61% crit rate

HOLD UP why is my mana now 900 less then my health, its normally like 300, when they both have 75 points in them




The Hollow Soul -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 23:54:59)

@Timekiller,
Crit and WIS were two of the most easily abused things in the game when it came to stats. Ash and the team fixed it so now you actually have to plan your attacks and your WIS usage instead of most of the game being a "OHKO with my 2000+ WIS so I never run out and high crit"

I wouldn't just blame Ash though, I'm sure he had to confirm things with Geo and worked with V before he got to mess around with the stat changes. It's a whole team effort to destroy our mana! DF Team as Secret Rose members confirmed [;)]




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